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      01-29-2019, 07:53 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Ah, I see. But you replied to my post, hence my confusion.

For my part, I actually miss that (very) low end torque from my 2015.

But besides that, it is the exact opposite for the CS. The difference is not from the engine, it is mostly about the chassis. I find the CS to be less tame than my 2015 or the CP I have driven (on street and track), where the CS feels more raw and connected from a driver's perspective, hence more soul.
When I test drove an M4 CS a couple of weekends ago, the difference in engine compared to the CP was "meh" (I noticed it sounded quieter, maybe because of no active sound?). But the way the car felt when handling seemed so much more effortless and precise than the CP.
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      01-29-2019, 08:29 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
...
Plus the fact that I was able to beat my previous best track time by 1.5 seconds without even trying hard (and that's on the same tires and wheels) is the proof in the pudding .
To be fair, my understanding is that the CS is tuned to use tires like PSC2 and NT01 whereas your first m4 was not. Also, 6mt versus dct and four years of experience does not seem like a trivial amount of time - i.e. I would imagine your driver skill has increased in that time, perhaps lending to the 1.5 seconds you mentioned.

Did you log your track time in both cars? It would be really cool to see where the CS makes up time... and also because more CS content would be great
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      01-29-2019, 08:33 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by rarlyl8 View Post
Thinking about picking one up but a 911 is pulling me towards it
CS surpasses the century mark, you need to gravitate towards a 911. I myself feel the pull....
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      01-29-2019, 08:56 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by DML View Post
CS surpasses the century mark, you need to gravitate towards a 911. I myself feel the pull....
The cost of a 991.1 C4S is about the same price as a M3CS after modest markdowns. Who knows if it will hold its value more than a 991.1 C4S, but you won't have a warranty on the P-Car, at least not for long.

You could get a new 911 Carrera, but optioned it's not in the same price point. A base 911 is going to be more in the ballpark and you will have a vanilla Carrera competing against a CS. I certainly see the appeal of a more pure sports car in the 911, but unless you are financing or paying cash, you are going to be paying MUCH MUCH more on the 911 than the CS even if they have the same MSRP. The RV and MF will send the 911 payments skyrocketing. Of course, if you can afford a 911 in the first place, then this isn't an issue.
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      01-29-2019, 08:58 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
As posted previously, both the M3cs and M4cs come with PSS in the US. PSC2 are standard in the ROW with PSS offered as a no cost option on both cars.

As far as I know, there isn't a different suspension tuning between US spec cars and ROW, be it M3cs or M4cs. However, it seems that the M3cs is more softly sprung than the M4cs since it uses base springs while the M4cs uses the CP springs.
Interesting about the lack of Cup2 for the US. Do you know why? I can’t imagine anyone consciously picking the PSS over the Cup2’s in markets with Cup2’s as standard.

Also, with regard to comments about the M3 CS being more softly sprung compared with rhe M4 CS using CP springs, what does that likely mean for choosing a HAS?

If the MP HAD has the spring rates matched to CP/M4CS springs, is it still rhe right choice for the M3 CS? If not, what other alternatively make sense? Does it even matter if you go KW HAS instead? And I wonder what the softer springs in the M3 CS are. Are they from a pre-CP care like the M3 as released in 2014/15?

I’ve only driven the M4 CS (my M3 CS arrives in a week!), and already I felt that car to be more comfortable than my 2018 M3 CP. If the M3 CS is going to be even more comfortable, I’m happy with that. Though I would love to know more about the base springs referenced and what the best HAS option is.
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      01-29-2019, 09:04 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DML View Post
CS surpasses the century mark, you need to gravitate towards a 911. I myself feel the pull....
The cost of a 991.1 C4S is about the same price as a M3CS after modest markdowns. Who knows if it will hold its value more than a 991.1 C4S, but you won't have a warranty on the P-Car, at least not for long.

You could get a new 911 Carrera, but optioned it's not in the same price point. A base 911 is going to be more in the ballpark and you will have a vanilla Carrera competing against a CS. I certainly see the appeal of a more pure sports car in the 911, but unless you are financing or paying cash, you are going to be paying MUCH MUCH more on the 911 than the CS even if they have the same MSRP. The RV and MF will send the 911 payments skyrocketing. Of course, if you can afford a 911 in the first place, then this isn't an issue.
Thinking 911s. Buddy of mine owns one, chose to lease from Porsche of Fairfield for a pretty favorable number. I'm on my 7th Bimmer only to escalate in price each and every, time for a change? Maybe. I'm sure I'll shop a CS come late fall as these lots up here in CT. Are pretty much littered with the product ( exaggeration ). I'm looking for an alternative. Thanks for the reply
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      01-29-2019, 09:09 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DML View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DML View Post
CS surpasses the century mark, you need to gravitate towards a 911. I myself feel the pull....
The cost of a 991.1 C4S is about the same price as a M3CS after modest markdowns. Who knows if it will hold its value more than a 991.1 C4S, but you won't have a warranty on the P-Car, at least not for long.

You could get a new 911 Carrera, but optioned it's not in the same price point. A base 911 is going to be more in the ballpark and you will have a vanilla Carrera competing against a CS. I certainly see the appeal of a more pure sports car in the 911, but unless you are financing or paying cash, you are going to be paying MUCH MUCH more on the 911 than the CS even if they have the same MSRP. The RV and MF will send the 911 payments skyrocketing. Of course, if you can afford a 911 in the first place, then this isn't an issue.
Thinking 911s. Buddy of mine owns one, chose to lease from Porsche of Fairfield for a pretty favorable number. I'm on my 7th Bimmer only to escalate in price each and every, time for a change? Maybe. I'm sure I'll shop a CS come late fall as these lots up here in CT. Are pretty much littered with the product ( exaggeration ). I'm looking for an alternative. Thanks for the reply
What is he leasing for. I got quotes on the. At an S and they were ridiculous. Granted the market here is a bit different for Porsche's.
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      01-29-2019, 09:28 PM   #30
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**I'm writing this on the go and on my phone, so please excuse the grammar*

Well, coming from a 2018 M3 Comp package car. The CS is a different animal. The driving dynamics IMO is a larger step from the Comp car than most people are suggesting. I think people and reviewers have not driven the two cars back to back and are using selective memory to compare the two.

1) The CS while it has more power, is more composed. It doesn't really step out and the tactile feedback is greater. And the ride is actually more supple.

2) You don't need or miss the armrest

3) I seem to be missing some i-drive functions, odd and my dealer is looking into it.

4) f&wk not having comfort access. I miss it, want it and i cant believe its missing.

5) I dig the rotary knobs, they are cool.

6) Some small extended leather pieces missing, on purpose.

7) Frozen haters gonna hate...I never had a matte car before and i've been stopped 3 times today alone.

8) The exhaust could have the same part number, no way is it the same exhaust.

9) No vents in back, my kid will grow up a little tougher and able to withstand the harsher weather conditions. They also have sunshades.
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      01-29-2019, 10:13 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Did you check alignment? My ‘15 loved to oversteer and it was because it came with 0 rear toe from the factory. I added more rear toe in and then it would only oversteer if I was a ham with the throttle.

A “fix” of reducing low end torque. LOL at that. I never let dealer flash my car EVER while I owned it because of that risk.

have we confirmed if the US m3 CS has suspension setup for cup2 tires (despite not coming with those tires)?
Yeah, oddly I never let them update my 2015 either, it was scary but I wasn’t stupid! Needless to say my 2018cp model is without exception a better all arounder, and for the extra cash it should be. The DCT is phenomenal eventhough I do miss rowing from time to time.
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      01-29-2019, 10:16 PM   #32
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My SMB M3CS is being delivered next week so it can sit in the garage for 2 more months.

Ugh!
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      01-29-2019, 11:14 PM   #33
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we have a facebook page for CS owners its called BMW M3 CS and M4 CS owners Group..
please look it up We are at 55 Members as of now
Thanks! Just sent request to join!
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      01-30-2019, 12:04 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmos515 View Post
**I'm writing this on the go and on my phone, so please excuse the grammar*

Well, coming from a 2018 M3 Comp package car. The CS is a different animal. The driving dynamics IMO is a larger step from the Comp car than most people are suggesting. I think people and reviewers have not driven the two cars back to back and are using selective memory to compare the two.

1) The CS while it has more power, is more composed. It doesn't really step out and the tactile feedback is greater. And the ride is actually more supple.

2) You don't need or miss the armrest

3) I seem to be missing some i-drive functions, odd and my dealer is looking into it.

4) f&wk not having comfort access. I miss it, want it and i cant believe its missing.

5) I dig the rotary knobs, they are cool.

6) Some small extended leather pieces missing, on purpose.

7) Frozen haters gonna hate...I never had a matte car before and i've been stopped 3 times today alone.

8) The exhaust could have the same part number, no way is it the same exhaust.

9) No vents in back, my kid will grow up a little tougher and able to withstand the harsher weather conditions. They also have sunshades.
I love the rotary HVAC! I love the rear sunshade! I really miss the comfort access because I've been spoiled! Curious, what iDrive functions are you missing?
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      01-30-2019, 07:54 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmos515 View Post
**I'm writing this on the go and on my phone, so please excuse the grammar*

Well, coming from a 2018 M3 Comp package car. The CS is a different animal. The driving dynamics IMO is a larger step from the Comp car than most people are suggesting. I think people and reviewers have not driven the two cars back to back and are using selective memory to compare the two.

1) The CS while it has more power, is more composed. It doesn't really step out and the tactile feedback is greater. And the ride is actually more supple.

2) You don't need or miss the armrest

3) I seem to be missing some i-drive functions, odd and my dealer is looking into it.

4) f&wk not having comfort access. I miss it, want it and i cant believe its missing.

5) I dig the rotary knobs, they are cool.

6) Some small extended leather pieces missing, on purpose.

7) Frozen haters gonna hate...I never had a matte car before and i've been stopped 3 times today alone.

8) The exhaust could have the same part number, no way is it the same exhaust.

9) No vents in back, my kid will grow up a little tougher and able to withstand the harsher weather conditions. They also have sunshades.
4) Agreed. After 4-months of ownership, I still have not gotten used to the absence of comfort access. I still find myself tugging at the locked door handle .

6) I assume you refer to the small knee bolster on the center console?

8) The CS exhaust has a different part number than the CP exhaust and definitely sounds different to my ears.

9) While there are no vents on the center console for the rear seating area, there are still vents located under the front seats that feed HVAC air to the rear compartment .
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      01-30-2019, 08:16 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlhymb View Post
Also, 6mt versus dct
My 2015 M4 also was DCT.

And I'll stress again that both cars were run on the same Apex EC-7 wheels with NT01 tires and equipped with GC camber plates, lowering springs and Pagid RSL29 brake pads, so it is a true apples-to-apples comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlhymb View Post
...and four years of experience does not seem like a trivial amount of time - i.e. I would imagine your driver skill has increased in that time, perhaps lending to the 1.5 seconds you mentioned.
I've been tracking cars for over 25-years, I have tracked my 2015 M4 throughout my 4-years of ownership and logged over 75 track days with it. I tracked it up to the point of trading it with my M4cs. So there wasn't a 4-year gain of experience between the two cars. My fastest times with my 2015 M4 were all within a 0.5 second bracket, I figure this is pretty consistent considering variations in tire wear and track/weather conditions.

I was able to beat my best time ever achieved with 2015 M4 over 4-years and 75+ track days by 1.5 seconds during my first time out with the CS. And the thing is, I wasn't even trying that hard. I was just doodling around getting to know the car. When I looked at the lap times, I was like holy sh!t . There's definitely more time to be gained with the CS.

So no, even if I am still very much an amateur driver with much to learn, the laptime improvement is not the result of my improved skill/experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlhymb View Post
To be fair, my understanding is that the CS is tuned to use tires like PSC2 and NT01 whereas your first m4 was not.
Agreed. I believe this is where most of the improvement lies. The CS feels so composed and responsive on track, it's amazing. That's exactly what I reported here after my first track day with it. While I really liked the F82 chassis dynamics in my 2015 and found it greatly superior to my previous E92, the CS dials everything up by a notch.

I believe it is the combination of all the incremental changes to the CS that add up to improve the performance. It's the added power, the improved aero, the lighter weight and the improved chassis dynamics that work in unison to provide the better lap times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlhymb View Post
Did you log your track time in both cars? It would be really cool to see where the CS makes up time... and also because more CS content would be great
Yes I do. The CS is simply faster everywhere around the track.
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Last edited by CanAutM3; 01-31-2019 at 05:23 PM..
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      01-30-2019, 08:25 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by marvinp View Post
When I test drove an M4 CS a couple of weekends ago, the difference in engine compared to the CP was "meh" (I noticed it sounded quieter, maybe because of no active sound?). But the way the car felt when handling seemed so much more effortless and precise than the CP.
While I agree that the improvements in handling dynamics are the most significant, the increased acceleration from the added power is also much more significant than the mere 9hp peak power increase suggests. Have a look at this thread: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1376759
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      01-30-2019, 08:37 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elisiX View Post
Interesting about the lack of Cup2 for the US. Do you know why? I can’t imagine anyone consciously picking the PSS over the Cup2’s in markets with Cup2’s as standard. .
Only thing I can think of for the lack of PSC2 in the US is litigation concerns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elisiX View Post
Also, with regard to comments about the M3 CS being more softly sprung compared with rhe M4 CS using CP springs, what does that likely mean for choosing a HAS?

If the MP HAD has the spring rates matched to CP/M4CS springs, is it still rhe right choice for the M3 CS? If not, what other alternatively make sense? Does it even matter if you go KW HAS instead? And I wonder what the softer springs in the M3 CS are. Are they from a pre-CP care like the M3 as released in 2014/15?

I’ve only driven the M4 CS (my M3 CS arrives in a week!), and already I felt that car to be more comfortable than my 2018 M3 CP. If the M3 CS is going to be even more comfortable, I’m happy with that. Though I would love to know more about the base springs referenced and what the best HAS option is.
According to folks that have done the research, the M3cs use the same springs as the base (non-CP) M3, which, as far as I know, have been the same over the entire production span.

It's not an easy call regarding choosing HAS. It's not hard fact, but from what I've read and heard, BMW has not "type approved" the MP-HAS for use on the M3cs while they have on the M4cs. I am not sure why that is though. The KW HAS are even stiffer than the MP-HAS.
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      01-30-2019, 02:02 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
As posted previously, both the M3cs and M4cs come with PSS in the US. PSC2 are standard in the ROW with PSS offered as a no cost option on both cars.

As far as I know, there isn't a different suspension tuning between US spec cars and ROW, be it M3cs or M4cs. However, it seems that the M3cs is more softly sprung than the M4cs since it uses base springs while the M4cs uses the CP springs.
Thanks for confirming. That’s exciting news that US and ROW suspensions are the same and setup for cup2 despite US cars coming with PSS
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      01-30-2019, 03:04 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
4) Agreed. After 4-months of ownership, I still have not gotten used to the absence of comfort access. I still find myself tugging at the locked door handle .

6) I assume you refer to the small knee bolster on the center console?

8) The CS exhaust has a different part number than the CP exhaust and definitely sounds different to my ears.

9) While there are no vents on the center console for the rear seating area, there are still vents located under the front seats that feed HVAC air to the rear compartment .
Did not know about #9 good to know. Not that I ever have anyone back there.
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      01-30-2019, 06:54 PM   #41
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...Agreed. I believe this is where most of the improvement lies. The CS feels so composed and responsive on track, it's amazing. ...
Thanks for sharing that info, for some reason I thought your previous m4 was 6mt.
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      01-31-2019, 03:28 AM   #42
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I just did two back to back drives with my 2016 M3 and my 2018 M3CS to get a feel what the most obvious differences are. Note that my M3 has Macht Schnell competition sport springs and spacers and my M3Cs is stock and still under the 1200 mile break in so I couldn't go all out. I took the same route each time that involved the same underpass, and two of my favorite banked on-ramps in the area. My observations:

1) steering and steering feeling is much more tight and precise with the M3CS. The M3 had a little more play and less feedback from the road. In comfort and sport plus i could once again feel the car under the wheel. I think my suspension brought some of that connected feeling back in my M3, but honestly it feels even better in the M3CS. This is a huge improvement as far as I could tell.

2) Overall the car feels more planted.

3) MDM mode feels different in the M3CS. It felt more controllable with the tail out.

4) Drivetrain in Sport+ was more linear in the M3CS. I'm not sure if it's the throttle mapping or the suspension setup, it just felt more stable and predictable.

5) it's still fairly easy to get that rear end out in a good way!

6) the MPE on my M3 is louder in cold start although I hear that cold start does not work the same way in the M3CS. Burble is non-existent in the M3 and it's nice but not obnoxious in the M3CS. Driving a ZCP at a few M School sessions the ZCP has a much louder burble but I think that's because of the active sound, which I am not a fan of. The M3CS does not have active sound thankfully. Driving through the same underpass, the M3CP was almost as loud as my MPE. I'd say about 80-85% as loud and still sounds very nice. In a perfect world I would transfer the MPE to the M3CS.

7) brakes seem similar. They even squealed at the exact same corner in the same way. Consistent!

8) the ZCP seats are better and holding the driver in place. I'm a big fan of carbon structure in my M3, but the seats are much better! Time will tell if they are more of less comfortable in long drives.

Things I miss from the M3:
The armrest
The MPE
The one touch self- entering turn signal. I might be one of the few that thought BMW had it right. All cars should have this feature
Comfort Access

Things don't miss from the M3
Dual climate control
Plastic dash
The old iDrive

Things I'm not sure about yet:
The steering wheel. It's thicccc. I like it but in a see how I'm going to be kinda sore before I get used to it. I love the alcantera everywhere though.
Apple CarPlay. I have it in my i3 and I didn't really like it. Maybe I need to try again?

Preliminary conclusion: is it worth the $25-40k premium? I don't think so. The M3 and M3 ZCP are still great cars. It's no wonder the M3CS sat on a lot of lots. But now that there are heavy discounts to be made, no one is paying the full price of $101-$115k. At $88-95k it becomes totally worth it!

This weekend my M3 goes back to stock. I'll do another back-to-back comparison to see if I get similar results without the suspension mods.
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      01-31-2019, 05:47 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I just did two back to back drives with my 2016 M3 and my 2018 M3CS to get a feel what the most obvious differences are. Note that my M3 has Macht Schnell competition sport springs and spacers and my M3Cs is stock and still under the 1200 mile break in so I couldn't go all out. I took the same route each time that involved the same underpass, and two of my favorite banked on-ramps in the area. My observations:

1) steering and steering feeling is much more tight and precise with the M3CS. The M3 had a little more play and less feedback from the road. In comfort and sport plus i could once again feel the car under the wheel. I think my suspension brought some of that connected feeling back in my M3, but honestly it feels even better in the M3CS. This is a huge improvement as far as I could tell.

2) Overall the car feels more planted.

3) MDM mode feels different in the M3CS. It felt more controllable with the tail out.

4) Drivetrain in Sport+ was more linear in the M3CS. I'm not sure if it's the throttle mapping or the suspension setup, it just felt more stable and predictable.

5) it's still fairly easy to get that rear end out in a good way!

6) the MPE on my M3 is louder in cold start although I hear that cold start does not work the same way in the M3CS. Burble is non-existent in the M3 and it's nice but not obnoxious in the M3CS. Driving a ZCP at a few M School sessions the ZCP has a much louder burble but I think that's because of the active sound, which I am not a fan of. The M3CS does not have active sound thankfully. Driving through the same underpass, the M3CP was almost as loud as my MPE. I'd say about 80-85% as loud and still sounds very nice. In a perfect world I would transfer the MPE to the M3CS.

7) brakes seem similar. They even squealed at the exact same corner in the same way. Consistent!

8) the ZCP seats are better and holding the driver in place. I'm a big fan of carbon structure in my M3, but the seats are much better! Time will tell if they are more of less comfortable in long drives.

Things I miss from the M3:
The armrest
The MPE
The one touch self- entering turn signal. I might be one of the few that thought BMW had it right. All cars should have this feature
Comfort Access

Things don't miss from the M3
Dual climate control
Plastic dash
The old iDrive

Things I'm not sure about yet:
The steering wheel. It's thicccc. I like it but in a see how I'm going to be kinda sore before I get used to it. I love the alcantera everywhere though.
Apple CarPlay. I have it in my i3 and I didn't really like it. Maybe I need to try again?

Preliminary conclusion: is it worth the $25-40k premium? I don't think so. The M3 and M3 ZCP are still great cars. It's no wonder the M3CS sat on a lot of lots. But now that there are heavy discounts to be made, no one is paying the full price of $101-$115k. At $88-95k it becomes totally worth it!

This weekend my M3 goes back to stock. I'll do another back-to-back comparison to see if I get similar results without the suspension mods.
Why don't you transfer your MPE onto your CS? That's what I did and I am really glad that I did. It enhances the CS experience even further, plus you get a 17lb weight reduction.

Interrestingly, the MPE sounds different on the CS, probably because of the engine tune.
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      01-31-2019, 08:12 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rarlyl8 View Post
Thinking about picking one up but a 911 is pulling me towards it
I just bought mine today and I think it’s perfect next to my gt3rs
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