Another engine oil thread. Castrol Edge/Pennzoil/ Liqui Moly?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by n8dgr84

I wouldn't worry about that for New York.
Maybe If you had an xdrive in Alaska or Minnesota.

Xcess gen 2 5w40 is significantly better than the previous stuff anyways, so I wouldnt even bother using the older LL01 oils that motul sells.

And I concur, New York doesnt get cold enough to warrant a 0W oil choice over a 5W oil choice.

[M2_MEDUSA]

Texas climate, usually hot in the summer 90-100 degrees multiple weeks in a row. Don’t think I need 0w? Or do I. upgraded turbos full e85 port injection. No track days. Just lots of short 7-15 second pulls 25-30lbs of boost. What oil should I use? edycol currently 5w-30 Quaker state euro with mb and Porsche a40 certs and bmw LL. Change every 3,500 miles. Please advise. 700+whp

[edycol]

Originally Posted by M2_MEDUSA

Texas climate, usually hot in the summer 90-100 degrees multiple weeks in a row. Don’t think I need 0w? Or do I. upgraded turbos full e85 port injection. No track days. Just lots of short 7-15 second pulls 25-30lbs of boost. What oil should I use? edycol currently 5w-30 Quaker state euro with mb and Porsche a40 certs and bmw LL. Change every 3,500 miles. Please advise. 700+whp

I would go W40, something like Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40, Motul X-Cess etc.

[MarvF30N20]

I have a bone stock 2013 BMW 328i with the N20 engine and the weather goes down to -13F in winter, and gets as hot as 104F in the summer. 80% of my drives are extremely short, idle a lot, and the engine oil doesnt get warmer than 140F most of the time.

I don’t track the vehicle, and the only spirited driving it sees is once every few weeks on the highway when I drive like I stole it.

I used a lot of Castrol Edge Euro 0w30 (Made in Belgium) all year round, but the old stock is now hard to find and I can only find the new 0w30 with the pour point of -45.

I use the new Castrol 0w30 in the winter and BMW TPT 5w30 in the summer with very short OCIs of 3000 miles or 4 months (because of my frequent short trips and constant idling).

edycol
I’ve read your insight on Castrol oils but am now confused on what to use because of the newer formulations with low PAO. I do stick to LL-01 (but not FE) because of the timing chain on my N20.
What oil and OCI would you recommend for someone in these conditions?
Thank you very much for your insight!

[edycol]

Originally Posted by MarvF30N20

I have a bone stock 2013 BMW 328i with the N20 engine and the weather goes down to -13F in winter, and gets as hot as 104F in the summer. 80% of my drives are extremely short, idle a lot, and the engine oil doesnt get warmer than 140F most of the time.

I don’t track the vehicle, and the only spirited driving it sees is once every few weeks on the highway when I drive like I stole it.

I used a lot of Castrol Edge Euro 0w30 (Made in Belgium) all year round, but the old stock is now hard to find and I can only find the new 0w30 with the pour point of -45.

I use the new Castrol 0w30 in the winter and BMW TPT 5w30 in the summer with very short OCIs of 3000 miles or 4 months (because of my frequent short trips and constant idling).

edycol
I’ve read your insight on Castrol oils but am now confused on what to use because of the newer formulations with low PAO. I do stick to LL-01 (but not FE) because of the timing chain on my N20.
What oil and OCI would you recommend for someone in these conditions?
Thank you very much for your insight!

Same oil. Currently, Edge 0W30 is 25-50% PAO, the same as before. Is it bit lower? Perhaps. But PAO oil could have a higher pour point, too. Motul 300V is ester-based oil and has a pour point in the '40s. This new Edge 0W30 (I just changed oil in my Sequoia 5.7 V8 with that oil) has more AN's (alkylated naphthalene), which is Gropu V, and has better additive solubility and cleanliness. It does things as ester base stocks do, but cheaper. Though not as thermally stable at super-high temperatures as esters.
The pour point is not indicative of cold cranking performance. That is why, in the last several decades, we measure that using CCS and MRV, and not pour point. Pour point is basically a method using gravity. But your engine, as any ICE, has an oil pump. That oil will perform below that temperature. I used a 5W40 with a pour point of -39 in a BMW X5 35d and started that engine at -42c here in Colorado. I live 2hrs from the coldest spot in the Lower 48, Gunnison Basin, and temperatures below -30c are nothing unusual. In Ontario, 0W guarantees performance in the worst conditions. If I lived in Fairbanks, AK, or the Yukon area, perhaps I would generally use something lighter that has LL01FE designation as oil would probably have a hard time ever reaching operating temperature. But then, in those areas, people usually run block heaters.
So, Edge 0W30 is the way to go. Most oils now have AN's, and you will have a hard time finding something new that has new additive packages with lower calcium to have a pour point way below -45. Only two oils on top of my mind that might be readily available but have a bit older additive package would be Pennzoil Euro 0W30 LX and Mobil1 ESP 0W30 (both LL04).

[FrankMstein]

Originally Posted by edycol

Same oil. Currently, Edge 0W30 is 25-50% PAO, the same as before. Is it bit lower? Perhaps. But PAO oil could have a higher pour point, too. Motul 300V is ester-based oil and has a pour point in the '40s. This new Edge 0W30 (I just changed oil in my Sequoia 5.7 V8 with that oil) has more AN's (alkylated naphthalene), which is Gropu V, and has better additive solubility and cleanliness. It does things as ester base stocks do, but cheaper. Though not as thermally stable at super-high temperatures as esters.
The pour point is not indicative of cold cranking performance. That is why, in the last several decades, we measure that using CCS and MRV, and not pour point. Pour point is basically a method using gravity. But your engine, as any ICE, has an oil pump. That oil will perform below that temperature. I used a 5W40 with a pour point of -39 in a BMW X5 35d and started that engine at -42c here in Colorado. I live 2hrs from the coldest spot in the Lower 48, Gunnison Basin, and temperatures below -30c are nothing unusual. In Ontario, 0W guarantees performance in the worst conditions. If I lived in Fairbanks, AK, or the Yukon area, perhaps I would generally use something lighter that has LL01FE designation as oil would probably have a hard time ever reaching operating temperature. But then, in those areas, people usually run block heaters.
So, Edge 0W30 is the way to go. Most oils now have AN's, and you will have a hard time finding something new that has new additive packages with lower calcium to have a pour point way below -45. Only two oils on top of my mind that might be readily available but have a bit older additive package would be Pennzoil Euro 0W30 LX and Mobil1 ESP 0W30 (both LL04).

You need write the oil bible or get with that matrix!

[M-SJ3]

edycol the oil GOAT. +100 for all your valuable input across this forum and BITOG.

[griebel]

I have 4 quarts of motul specific 5w30 fe left from an oil change on my 2018 M4. Can I use that with motul 8100 x-cess gen 2 for my next change?

[ericold]

Originally Posted by edycol

Same oil. Currently, Edge 0W30 is 25-50% PAO, the same as before. Is it bit lower? Perhaps. But PAO oil could have a higher pour point, too. Motul 300V is ester-based oil and has a pour point in the '40s. This new Edge 0W30 (I just changed oil in my Sequoia 5.7 V8 with that oil) has more AN's (alkylated naphthalene), which is Gropu V, and has better additive solubility and cleanliness. It does things as ester base stocks do, but cheaper. Though not as thermally stable at super-high temperatures as esters.
The pour point is not indicative of cold cranking performance. That is why, in the last several decades, we measure that using CCS and MRV, and not pour point. Pour point is basically a method using gravity. But your engine, as any ICE, has an oil pump. That oil will perform below that temperature. I used a 5W40 with a pour point of -39 in a BMW X5 35d and started that engine at -42c here in Colorado. I live 2hrs from the coldest spot in the Lower 48, Gunnison Basin, and temperatures below -30c are nothing unusual. In Ontario, 0W guarantees performance in the worst conditions. If I lived in Fairbanks, AK, or the Yukon area, perhaps I would generally use something lighter that has LL01FE designation as oil would probably have a hard time ever reaching operating temperature. But then, in those areas, people usually run block heaters.
So, Edge 0W30 is the way to go. Most oils now have AN's, and you will have a hard time finding something new that has new additive packages with lower calcium to have a pour point way below -45. Only two oils on top of my mind that might be readily available but have a bit older additive package would be Pennzoil Euro 0W30 LX and Mobil1 ESP 0W30 (both LL04).

oh no,come on ,now i have to add this to my #807 review oil guide post!

[edycol]

Originally Posted by griebel

I have 4 quarts of motul specific 5w30 fe left from an oil change on my 2018 M4. Can I use that with motul 8100 x-cess gen 2 for my next change?

Yes! All API oils must meet requirements to be mixed with other API oils or different API specifications.

[ericold]

we can mix 5-30 with 5-40 oil? duet to they meet same requirements ?

[edycol]

Originally Posted by ericold

we can mix 5-30 with 5-40 oil? duet to they meet same requirements ?

Absolutely!

[ericold]

Originally Posted by edycol

Absolutely!

ok,but we said,actually you said and i copied it to the guide that:

bmw approval is based on HTHS and bmw's hths based oils are ranged from 3.5 to 4.

a 5-30 motul oil hths is from 3.4 to 3.6 at the most.

a 5-40 is from 3.7 - 4.1 at the most.

if we mix a 30 with a 40 then what is the hths of the oil? i mean how it affects the oils life and shear a hths of 2 different oils ,which one will dominate, the 3.8 of lets say excess gen 2 or a 3.5 of a xclean 5-30 ?

i hope you understand my question.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by ericold

ok,but we said,actually you said and i copied it to the guide that:

bmw approval is based on HTHS and bmw's hths based oils are ranged from 3.5 to 4.

a 5-30 motul oil hths is from 3.4 to 3.6 at the most.

a 5-40 is from 3.7 - 4.1 at the most.

if we mix a 30 with a 40 then what is the hths of the oil? i mean how it affects the oils life and shear a hths of 2 different oils ,which one will dominate, the 3.8 of lets say excess gen 2 or a 3.5 of a xclean 5-30 ?

i hope you understand my question.

I do understand.
He is asking can it be mixed? Sure it can. All API oils must be able to be mixed with other API oils.
Now, how that affects shearing etc.? I would say it has to be determined by UOA to get exact number. But I personally would always take oil that is less shear stable as a benchmark, which would be in this case 5W40.
As for HTHS, LL01/04 are minimum 3.5. But LL01FE, LL12 and LL14 are 3, and others minimum 2.6. So, if we mix X-Cess and X-Clean that you mentioned in N55 or S55, it is still good considering engine is rated for minimum 3cP.
Funny, I actually did mix exactly those two oils in my N52.

[MRGA M4]

edycol question for you kind sir,

What oil should I put in my '17 F83? 96k miles and bone stock. It's my daily and I baby it, commute to work is about 35 miles round trip. No track and probably never will. Live in Phoenix so temps are heating up. Last 3 oil changes the shop I took it to used LM 5W30... OCI every 4-5k since I've owned it.

Would you say Edge 0W30 or Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40, Motul X-Cess?

Thanks in advance, all of you in here are beyond helpful!

[Drewbkm4]

Originally Posted by M2_MEDUSA

Texas climate, usually hot in the summer 90-100 degrees multiple weeks in a row. Don’t think I need 0w? Or do I. upgraded turbos full e85 port injection. No track days. Just lots of short 7-15 second pulls 25-30lbs of boost. What oil should I use? edycol currently 5w-30 Quaker state euro with mb and Porsche a40 certs and bmw LL. Change every 3,500 miles. Please advise. 700+whp

You should change your oil at 2,000 miles when running full e85 especially in that Texas heat

[edycol]

Originally Posted by MRGA M4

edycol question for you kind sir,

What oil should I put in my '17 F83? 96k miles and bone stock. It's my daily and I baby it, commute to work is about 35 miles round trip. No track and probably never will. Live in Phoenix so temps are heating up. Last 3 oil changes the shop I took it to used LM 5W30... OCI every 4-5k since I've owned it.

Would you say Edge 0W30 or Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40, Motul X-Cess?

Thanks in advance, all of you in here are beyond helpful!

Either one will be fine.
My preference is always Castrol 0W30 in street conditions and a stock engine. The golden rule of oil/fluid: "As thin as possible as thick as necessary."

[Ropes]

edycol can you shed some light as to why C40 oil is not backward compatible with engines that use A40? I can't imagine they changed the internals around in all their cars during 2020. Is this due to the particulate filter emissions thing?

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Ropes

edycol can you shed some light as to why C40 oil is not backward compatible with engines that use A40? I can't imagine they changed the internals around in all their cars during 2020. Is this due to the particulate filter emissions thing?

Some Porsche engines require certain additives that are not present in C40. Certain metallic additives generate a lot of SAPS. In order to be compatible with DPF/GPF, those additives are eliminated or lowered in C40. If Porsche argues that C40 is not compatible (I heard about this before) it is an additive issue and I would pay attention to it.

[Ropes]

Thank you. It just seemed odd to me, anyways have a wonderful weekend.

[ericold]

Originally Posted by edycol

Either one will be fine.
My preference is always Castrol 0W30 in street conditions and a stock engine. The golden rule of oil/fluid: "As thin as possible as thick as necessary."

i recall you saying that ambient temp is not an issue, altitude is.i guess there is a physics explanation here.whats going on with oil in a high altitude? there is less oxygen for sure ...and you mention something about the moon and how it affects the oils??!!! this is too much splitting hairs for me but i would like the knowledge of it!

[edycol]

Originally Posted by ericold

i recall you saying that ambient temp is not an issue, altitude is.i guess there is a physics explanation here.whats going on with oil in a high altitude? there is less oxygen for sure ...and you mention something about the moon and how it affects the oils??!!! this is too much splitting hairs for me but i would like the knowledge of it!

Ambient temperature is not an issue, per se! This means that if the cooling system is sufficient (which it is on BMW), it is fine.
Altitude is a BIG deal, especially in the summer. The higher you go, the lower the air density is. Think about airplanes. The longest runways in the US are in Denver and Colorado Springs because in the summer, air density is much lower, which affects lift.
Well, the way cooling works is that there is a heat exchange between the radiator and the air. Air molecules take over heat from the radiator and with that, radiator fins cool down and with that fluid. However, if air density is lower, heat exchange is much less efficient.
Up until 3,000ft it is OK, above 3,000ft is when things start to get interesting. Above 10,000ft (a lot of mountain passes in CO are above 10,000ft). There is no heat in Phoenix, etc., that compares to the challenges of cooling an engine on those mountain passes, including winter.
Our local track, HPR, is east of Denver and sits at 5000ft. I have seen tuned cars from TX and AZ that don't have issues there in the summer, just to throw CEL here and go into limp mode.

Another problem is atmospheric pressure. The higher you go, the lower the pressure. However, your internal cooling pressure stays the same. That is how vehicles don't overheat at altitude. The problem is that as outside pressure gets lower, if you have any deficiency in the system, loose hose, or cracked radiator, at altitude, there is a higher probability that the system is going to fail; basically, internal pressure is too much. A good experiment is a bag of chips (Cheetos are best). Take it into car through Eisenhower tunnel or Vail Pass, anywhere above 10,000ft and bag will burt. If your hoses or coolant reservoir is wek, well, that becomes that bag.