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      10-26-2018, 02:50 PM   #1
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Thoughts on my GTS

I'll pop in here with some recent time spent with an M4 GTS still fresh in my mind.

A few days ago I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to drive a new Huracan Performante and an M4 GTS back to back. Same day, same roads, same conditions, straight out of one car and into the other.

What is constantly shocking to me is how brutal these cars- the M4 GTS- are on the street. Not just aggressive, not just sharp. But jarring. Deterring. You constantly have to be on the lookout for road imperfections. Minor potholes, large cracks, and frost heaves not only produce sharp intrusions into the ride quality, they sound like they are damaging the car. The car does not want to put power down until there is a lot of heat in the rear tires, and even then heavy acceleration can make it struggle. The DCT bucks and lurches in 1st gear like a 15 yr old who has never driven a stick shift. It doesn't sound great. There is just always a general feeling that you are making the car do something it doesn't want to do. It's not fun. It's not enjoyable. It's suspiciously like work. And it just does not offer enough reward often enough to equalize it.

The Performante was far friendlier to drive on the street. It rode better, it didn't tram line as much, it shifted far smoother, and it made the power feel usable. It was instantly encouraging and trustworthy. But I want to take a moment to point out that this does not mean it was not fun. Nothing could be further from the truth. The car was a total blast. The noise it makes is sensational. The steering is beautiful and full of feel. The gearbox was sharp, but refined. The throttle response was so razor sharp, it's possibly the best I've ever experienced. The acceleration was vicious. It was clear that it had tons of performance to offer, and it wanted you to exploit it in the worst way possible.

The last time I drove a GTS it was back to back with a .1 GT3 RS, and I found it totally bizarre that the Porsche somehow felt simultaneously racier, but also more comfortable and approachable. That was nearly a year ago, and I was wondering if time was clouding my memory and harsh judgement. The Lamborghini reaffirmed my suspicions.
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      10-27-2018, 08:29 AM   #2
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The GTS ride is just fine. I would expect the car FriskyDingo drove still has the shipping spacers installed, which is common for this car for some reason. I drive mine on the street regularly, and the ride is just fine - no more harsh than my Porsche. Pat's car had 1500 miles on it when he bought it used, and he drove it back to VA from Charlotte. He couldn't believe how rough it was, and then he discovered the hard plastic shipping blocks were still installed at the top of the shocks. He removed those and - PRESTO - a much smoother driving car, and also had a lower stance.
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      10-27-2018, 10:09 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyC54 View Post
The GTS ride is just fine. I would expect the car FriskyDingo drove still has the shipping spacers installed, which is common for this car for some reason. I drive mine on the street regularly, and the ride is just fine - no more harsh than my Porsche. Pat's car had 1500 miles on it when he bought it used, and he drove it back to VA from Charlotte. He couldn't believe how rough it was, and then he discovered the hard plastic shipping blocks were still installed at the top of the shocks. He removed those and - PRESTO - a much smoother driving car, and also had a lower stance.

While I will definitely stop short of claiming what you are saying isn't possible, it would mean both of the cars I've driven- one w/ 1,500 miles, and one w/ 3,000 miles- still had the spacers installed. If this is the case, does it not result in a noticeable increase in wheel gap from what would be normal?
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      10-28-2018, 09:35 AM   #4
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No doubt the Performante is a better car in every measurable and subjective way, but the extent to which the GTS continues to be misinterpreted and misapplied truly boggles my mind. Maybe the dilution of the M brand, BMW marketing is to blame. People just don't (didn't) take them at their word about this car:

Whilst the BMW M4 Coupe represents the perfect combination of racing genes and ultimate everyday practicality, the new BMW M4 GTS is a highly emotive and exclusive special edition model that leads the way in terms of technology and was conceived for use on the race track. Despite featuring exceptional race track qualities permission to drive the vehicle on public roads is unaffected. - Frank van Meel, BMW M GmbH

So you have permission to drive it on the street. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of public road enjoyment and usability.

In certain settings, e.g. Sport Plus throttle, lowered + race track damper settings, and standard (potholed) road use, it's not enjoyable. That's because you are -- EXACTLY as you report -- making the car do something it doesn't want to do. It does feel like work. If you were driving a GT race car stoplight to stoplight over rough roads, the experience would be much the same. I've been on stretches of Michigan highway in full track mode, and counted down the seconds until the pain stopped.

That said, you can make the car behave significantly better over rough roads, if you want to put in the adjustment work. (https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1537875) Most don't want to do that. This car definitely isn't for most.

The bucking and lurching that you describe is characteristic of Sport Plus throttle setting in 1st gear. For (city) street use I never use that throttle setting. However, as I've reported elsewhere, mid-corner, corner exit on track in 3rd and Sport Plus is ideal imo, works to counteract lag, and facilitates precise speed adjustments. It's very much, no surprise, similar to the "on/off" throttle characteristic of many race cars.

To honestly evaluate this car, you'd have to try it on track, with proper settings (manually) dialed in. That's where it works. Maybe some think that's stupid, and any street legal M car should work reasonably well everywhere -- I can appreciate that perspective. Others will try the car on track when it's dialed in and prefer a 997 or 991 GT3 -- sure, I can also appreciate that. For the vast majority, the GTS is no doubt more trouble than it's worth. Race cars are too.

This will probably be a polarizing, unpopular, quasi-elitist opinion, but to really appreciate the full skillset of the GTS, you absolutely need to be an experienced HPDE participant. Years and dozens of events in, comfortable with stability and traction systems fully off, dedicated enough to make damper adjustments, and essentially capable of driving up to the car's immense limitations. If this doesn't describe you, then I'm not sure why you'd buy the closest approximation to a BMW race car to ever hit the U.S. market. It's not pretend M marketing, that's actually what this car is.
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      10-28-2018, 02:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post

This will probably be a polarizing, unpopular, quasi-elitist opinion, but to really appreciate the full skillset of the GTS, you absolutely need to be an experienced HPDE participant. Years and dozens of events in, comfortable with stability and traction systems fully off, dedicated enough to make damper adjustments, and essentially capable of driving up to the car's immense limitations. If this doesn't describe you, then I'm not sure why you'd buy the closest approximation to a BMW race car to ever hit the U.S. market. It's not pretend M marketing, that's actually what this car is.
Or you can put the GTS on bag suspensions and drive around to do photo shoots like some one on here. you know who you are ..
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      10-29-2018, 11:15 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
No doubt the Performante is a better car in every measurable and subjective way, but the extent to which the GTS continues to be misinterpreted and misapplied truly boggles my mind. Maybe the dilution of the M brand, BMW marketing is to blame. People just don't (didn't) take them at their word about this car:

Whilst the BMW M4 Coupe represents the perfect combination of racing genes and ultimate everyday practicality, the new BMW M4 GTS is a highly emotive and exclusive special edition model that leads the way in terms of technology and was conceived for use on the race track. Despite featuring exceptional race track qualities permission to drive the vehicle on public roads is unaffected. - Frank van Meel, BMW M GmbH

So you have permission to drive it on the street. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of public road enjoyment and usability.

In certain settings, e.g. Sport Plus throttle, lowered + race track damper settings, and standard (potholed) road use, it's not enjoyable. That's because you are -- EXACTLY as you report -- making the car do something it doesn't want to do. It does feel like work. If you were driving a GT race car stoplight to stoplight over rough roads, the experience would be much the same. I've been on stretches of Michigan highway in full track mode, and counted down the seconds until the pain stopped.

That said, you can make the car behave significantly better over rough roads, if you want to put in the adjustment work. (https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1537875) Most don't want to do that. This car definitely isn't for most.

The bucking and lurching that you describe is characteristic of Sport Plus throttle setting in 1st gear. For (city) street use I never use that throttle setting. However, as I've reported elsewhere, mid-corner, corner exit on track in 3rd and Sport Plus is ideal imo, works to counteract lag, and facilitates precise speed adjustments. It's very much, no surprise, similar to the "on/off" throttle characteristic of many race cars.

To honestly evaluate this car, you'd have to try it on track, with proper settings (manually) dialed in. That's where it works. Maybe some think that's stupid, and any street legal M car should work reasonably well everywhere -- I can appreciate that perspective. Others will try the car on track when it's dialed in and prefer a 997 or 991 GT3 -- sure, I can also appreciate that. For the vast majority, the GTS is no doubt more trouble than it's worth. Race cars are too.

This will probably be a polarizing, unpopular, quasi-elitist opinion, but to really appreciate the full skillset of the GTS, you absolutely need to be an experienced HPDE participant. Years and dozens of events in, comfortable with stability and traction systems fully off, dedicated enough to make damper adjustments, and essentially capable of driving up to the car's immense limitations. If this doesn't describe you, then I'm not sure why you'd buy the closest approximation to a BMW race car to ever hit the U.S. market. It's not pretend M marketing, that's actually what this car is.
Well, though I never disputed any of that in the first place, the problem with this logic is that other cars clean its clock on a race track, and either do it for less money, or are enjoyable on the street as well as the track. Any car so singular in purpose should excel more at doing so, imo.

Also, definitely did not have the car in Sport Plus setting.

Aside from that, thank you for your input, and I mean that sincerely.
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      10-29-2018, 01:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FriskyDingo View Post
Well, though I never disputed any of that in the first place, the problem with this logic is that other cars clean its clock on a race track, and either do it for less money, or are enjoyable on the street as well as the track. Any car so singular in purpose should excel more at doing so, imo.

Also, definitely did not have the car in Sport Plus setting.

Aside from that, thank you for your input, and I mean that sincerely.
But can you actually speak to how much the car excels on track, when properly setup, with an experienced driver?

Is your track evaluation/projection based upon magazine lap times? Motor Trend math?

Actual track use issues: Lack of front camber adjustability was a definite engineering blunder, and we needed the recaro buckets. Too fast for comp pack seats.

In terms of it not being enjoyable on the street –

Remember that the starting platform is an everyday, practical performance coupe/sedan, not a Huracan. Street comfort when set to race specification is a necessary compromise. You seem to be dismissing what I said though, which is that the car can be adjusted for reasonably comfortable and/or fun street use, just not at the touch of a button. With 3 way coilovers, carbon ceramics, cup 2’s, aero, 500 bhp, rwd, etc. you doubt that it could be setup for fun on a winding back road or mountain pass??

That’s one of many things I don’t get about the perspective on this car. It’s got every proven BMW performance enhancement trick in the book dating back to the E36 platform, yet people imagine it alone, specifically and mysteriously, sucks

If you can’t accelerate through 1st without bucking and lurching, and the throttle setting is relaxed, then there’s something wrong with the gearbox.

You’re entitled to your negative opinion about the car. Not coincidentally though, you’re not the only one who has formed a negative opinion based on use well outside of its intended environment.
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      10-29-2018, 02:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
But can you actually speak to how much the car excels on track, when properly setup, with an experienced driver?

Is your track evaluation/projection based upon magazine lap times? Motor Trend math?

Actual track use issues: Lack of front camber adjustability was a definite engineering blunder, and we needed the recaro buckets. Too fast for comp pack seats.

In terms of it not being enjoyable on the street –

Remember that the starting platform is an everyday, practical performance coupe/sedan, not a Huracan. Street comfort when set to race specification is a necessary compromise. You seem to be dismissing what I said though, which is that the car can be adjusted for reasonably comfortable and/or fun street use, just not at the touch of a button. With 3 way coilovers, carbon ceramics, cup 2’s, aero, 500 bhp, rwd, etc. you doubt that it could be setup for fun on a winding back road or mountain pass??

That’s one of many things I don’t get about the perspective on this car. It’s got every proven BMW performance enhancement trick in the book dating back to the E36 platform, yet people imagine it alone, specifically and mysteriously, sucks

If you can’t accelerate through 1st without bucking and lurching, and the throttle setting is relaxed, then there’s something wrong with the gearbox.

You’re entitled to your negative opinion about the car. Not coincidentally though, you’re not the only one who has formed a negative opinion based on use well outside of its intended environment.

I'm not sure I can recall anyone independent testing that showed this car 1) performed notably better (and in some cases, was slower) than other tracked-geared/capable cars costing considerably less 2) performed as well as other cars costing similar money and 3) where the reviewers themselves had very good things to say about its driving dynamics and performance.


Could that all be wrong? Doubtful. Is that to say the car is terrible? No. As always, I'm sure the truth lies in between. I was simply pointing out MY experience with the car, and in comparison to a few others. I have admittedly not driven the car on a track. I'm sure when it's set up properly, it's a great on track.
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      10-29-2018, 03:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FriskyDingo View Post
I'm not sure I can recall anyone independent testing that showed this car 1) performed notably better (and in some cases, was slower) than other tracked-geared/capable cars costing considerably less 2) performed as well as other cars costing similar money and 3) where the reviewers themselves had very good things to say about its driving dynamics and performance.


Could that all be wrong? Doubtful. Is that to say the car is terrible? No. As always, I'm sure the truth lies in between. I was simply pointing out MY experience with the car, and in comparison to a few others. I have admittedly not driven the car on a track. I'm sure when it's set up properly, it's a great on track.
Actually, I know of only one comparison test in which the GTS was definitely setup for the track, and reasonably scientific testing conditions were observed. (Why that matters -- insight on typical mag lap time testing protocol from a pro driver near the base of this article: https://motoiq.com/tested-carbon-rev...iber-wheels/9/)

That test was Sport Auto vs the 991 GT3. GTS fared well. Translation via a forum member and a snapshot of the lap data below.

Not coincidentally, Sport Auto also lapped the GTS within 9 seconds of the BMW ‘ring time in far less ideal conditions –

I can still remember well the 24th September 2015. At that time I ceded our round-the-clock window on the Nordschleife to BMW. At outside temperatures of 13 degrees, BMW test driver Jörg Weidinger then burned the magnificent record time of 7.28 min into the asphalt. Respect, Jörg, great achievement! At the Supertest round in 7.37 min, the conditions at 30 degrees were anything but ideal. The thermal load was noted to the biturbo, although the water injection gave it all. After two round rounds, the five-tank water tank was almost empty at these temperatures.

Just giving you some alternative, arguably more legit and meaningful data points and journalist feedback. Your perspective is your perspective. Jump at the chance to try it properly setup on track or on a back road sometime though. Might change your mind.

-----------------------------------------

M4 GTS: what traction!
Enough of the GT3, now his challenger climbs into the ring. The six-cylinder in-line booster is darkened by the exhaust system with a new titanium silencer and the four 80-millimeter-sized tailpipes. When boosted under full load, the exhaust system sounds a bit tinny, but it sounds much better at all times than the somewhat artificial sounding counterpart in the basic M4. The three-horsepower equipped with an additional water injection in the M4 GTS now provides 69 hp more and comes at a rated output of 500 hp. Turbocharger For the direct comparison in terms of gas intake, the M4 of course with the suction engine GT3 is greedy, no, almost snappy

Spontaneously reacting to accelerator pedal movements, but the GTS throttle can be seen especially in the sport plus mode. The throttle can be adjusted by means of a switch on the M4 center console.

After the first fast laps is immediately clear: It could have quietly also 600 PS may be. Do not misunderstand, the M4 GTS is definitely not under-powered, and its rudder goes bearable, but the grandiose chassis tuning would even more powerfully put away. The GTS carries a specially tuned three-way helical gear system in which both the tension and compression stages can be mechanically adjusted. In addition, the bar and support bearings have been modified.

In a direct comparison, the steering behavior of the 911 GT3 is even more greedy, but also for the M4 GTS is under control a foreign word. He uses directional commands even more consistently than the M4 basic model. The feedback of the steering in the GTS is not quite as sharp as in the GT3. The steering angle requirement in the BMW is slightly larger. The holding forces are pleasantly tight in the "Sport" or "Sport Plus" characteristics. All in all, BMW steering is one of the direct examples of its electromechanical guild.

The GT3 rear axle is clearly sharper than the M4 GTS. Or else: The M4 remains neutral for a long time and is almost immune to changes in load changes. With a fantastic traction, the hardcore BMW animatedly accelerates from curve to curve. The rear is pressed only in the absolute limit range. The overloading of performance does not announce itself in the manner of a surprise, but in a good-natured manner.

The phenomenal grip level and the high mechanical grip not only contribute to the successful tuning of the chassis, but also to the first-ever use of Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 sports tires. Important: The tuning of the ABS control system of the carbon-ceramic brake system, which is standard in the GTS and is slightly modified for the over-M4, is also perfectly suited to the cup ripening. Whether on ground waves in the braking zones or when braking into the curve, the GTS brake convinces at any time with very good dosing capability and a strong deceleration.

The fact that the M4 GTS has not only improved mechanical grip, but also improved its aerodynamics, thanks to the telescopic splitter and the triple-adjustable tail wing, is shown in Hockenheim, especially in the transverse section. At 187 km / h he moves in the fast linksknick at the super sports car level.

911 GT3 pilots should not underestimate the wing M4 when it appears in their rear-view mirror. With a lap time of 1.09.6 minutes, the GTS is not only the fastest BMW series of all time on the small circuit in Hockenheim, but also underbids the basic M4 by about three seconds.

If the Porsche PDK excelled, as in today's test, an incomplete day with a bit too much starting slip, then 911 GT3 and M4 GTS are equal in speed. No, it is not a pressure error that both counterparties have exactly the same acceleration values up to 200 km / h. With the standard brake measurement from 100 km / h the GT3 in 33.3 meters stands only 70 centimeters earlier than the M4 GTS. In the slalom, BMW and Porsche are just 0.5 km / h, in favor of the 911 GT3.

Even if the Porsche has its nose in the target just before the new hero from Munich has, today more than ever the following conclusion: Rarely a BMW was as much sports car as the M4 GTS - over a real M1 successor, we would nevertheless be very happy. ◾

MY OPINION

Did you notice something? I have not mentioned the BMW M3 CSL so far. A good sign. Until now, it has always been complained that the CSL does not have a legitimate successor. His direct successor M3 GTS (E92) could never really convince. This time is now definitely over. The CSL remains sure of its hero status forever with its emotional slave engine, but the M4 GTS leaves the CSL clear with its outstanding performance values from a cross-dynamical point of view. In addition, the M4 GTS also manages to cover its rather high weight of almost 1600 kilos very well. On the small course of Hockenheim he is on the same level as the 137 kilos lighter Porsche 911 GT3. Respect! The anticipation for the Supertest was never as great as today.

Text Christian Gebhardt


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      11-27-2018, 08:37 AM   #10
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Don't forget to check / tweak alignment specs once the blocks / shipping risers are
removed for flight.

The specs vs stock m4 - wow...makes total sense tho to achieve the results netted.

Cool replies and read...
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      11-27-2018, 08:50 AM   #11
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When I read the reference to an e36 it clicked for me. Having built raced and won in them I can completely and immediately relate.

Seems as though BMW did everything it could to bring back the feel of 'mechanical traction'
Euro mdm e diff etc
WHICH IS AWESOME! Drive by wire sucks. Not having 3 pedals can suck also

BUT

despite those small drawbacks and a few other kinks or flaws (?) these cars are special and well above any CS or regular M4 as the details reveal in owning one driving one (!) and caring for it and about it.

It is very unfortunate that so many dislike the GTS for face value; much like a book.

These cars just need more of the right driver / owner / bmw purists to gather them up and enjoy even if it becomes a SIG or special interest group - all the better !

I cannot speak to its capabilities in hand myself as I have yet to pilot one.

I can't wait to obtain one of my own to tinker and learn in. Then quietly store and use at will. Canyon Track Auto X Ralleye Caravan
car show whatever.

Glad prices are settling in this time...as they should. Now let's get on with some fast laps...

Just 2cents
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      11-27-2018, 01:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brake_Late View Post
When I read the reference to an e36 it clicked for me. Having built raced and won in them I can completely and immediately relate.

Seems as though BMW did everything it could to bring back the feel of 'mechanical traction'
Euro mdm e diff etc
WHICH IS AWESOME! Drive by wire sucks. Not having 3 pedals can suck also

BUT

despite those small drawbacks and a few other kinks or flaws (?) these cars are special and well above any CS or regular M4 as the details reveal in owning one driving one (!) and caring for it and about it.

It is very unfortunate that so many dislike the GTS for face value; much like a book.

These cars just need more of the right driver / owner / bmw purists to gather them up and enjoy even if it becomes a SIG or special interest group - all the better !

I cannot speak to its capabilities in hand myself as I have yet to pilot one.

I can't wait to obtain one of my own to tinker and learn in. Then quietly store and use at will. Canyon Track Auto X Ralleye Caravan
car show whatever.

Glad prices are settling in this time...as they should. Now let's get on with some fast laps...

Just 2cents
Sounds like you'd really enjoy a GTS.

One of my all time favorite track experiences was in a stripped out, track prepped E36 M3. That chassis was unreal. Just such an enjoyable car.

GTS is as close as I've experienced to a modernized version of that car. Plus what seems like about 400 hp, and minus a hemorrhaging head gasket...
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      11-27-2018, 02:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brake_Late View Post
When I read the reference to an e36 it clicked for me. Having built raced and won in them I can completely and immediately relate.

Seems as though BMW did everything it could to bring back the feel of 'mechanical traction'
Euro mdm e diff etc
WHICH IS AWESOME! Drive by wire sucks. Not having 3 pedals can suck also

BUT

despite those small drawbacks and a few other kinks or flaws (?) these cars are special and well above any CS or regular M4 as the details reveal in owning one driving one (!) and caring for it and about it.

It is very unfortunate that so many dislike the GTS for face value; much like a book.

These cars just need more of the right driver / owner / bmw purists to gather them up and enjoy even if it becomes a SIG or special interest group - all the better !

I cannot speak to its capabilities in hand myself as I have yet to pilot one.

I can't wait to obtain one of my own to tinker and learn in. Then quietly store and use at will. Canyon Track Auto X Ralleye Caravan
car show whatever.

Glad prices are settling in this time...as they should. Now let's get on with some fast laps...

Just 2cents
Sounds like you'd really enjoy a GTS.

One of my all time favorite track experiences was in a stripped out, track prepped E36 M3. That chassis was unreal. Just such an enjoyable car.

GTS is as close as I've experienced to a modernized version of that car. Plus what seems like about 400 hp, and minus a hemorrhaging head gasket...
Indeed. I know I will one day ahead soon.

I only needed 306rwhp at that time to consistently win in class...USA built S52.

Huge Cams, 10:75:1, PTG diff, balanced blueprinted, stage 5 Turner head, much more.
Good times and endless mechanical traction.
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      11-27-2018, 03:03 PM   #14
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Indeed. I know I will one day ahead soon.

I only needed 306rwhp at that time to consistently win in class...USA built S52.

Huge Cams, 10:75:1, PTG diff, balanced blueprinted, stage 5 Turner head, much more.
Good times and endless mechanical traction.
So awesome! Still have it??
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      11-27-2018, 05:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brake_Late View Post
Indeed. I know I will one day ahead soon.

I only needed 306rwhp at that time to consistently win in class...USA built S52.

Huge Cams, 10:75:1, PTG diff, balanced blueprinted, stage 5 Turner head, much more.
Good times and endless mechanical traction.
So awesome! Still have it??
No sir it's in Texas now last heard...
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CS EDC,Analog Dip ,GTS parts.
Euro Vin e30 M3, FIA cage / 14.7 p / w ratio.
Euro E30 touring G30 MSport i3s LBB X5M
3.2carrera

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClRTsfNzuz_EjUBu59UCykA
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      11-27-2018, 09:18 PM   #16
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I love my GTS, and in a totally different way than I love my Porsche. This conversation is getting old.
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      12-16-2018, 10:47 AM   #17
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Thoughts on my GTS

To the OP I respect your review. I have no doubt that the Performante is on a different level.
My GTS experience is totally different. The DCT in sport plus is smoother than my M4 was. Absolutely smooth with no bucking. Suspension It is too firm on the street when in track setting but in street settings it's fine to drive, I actually like the sharp feedback it gives when it's set up properly on factory street settings. There is no clunking or jarring feedback from the cassis as long as I avoid big bumps which is what I would do in any car. All I get is a solid feel. I have driven the GT3 991.2 and .1. Those cars are lighter and better over all, but on the street the GTS is the Racy one and the GT3 is the softer car. You have to drive the GT3 hard and above 5K to enjoy it, Not so with GTS, It's actually more fun on the street than the GT3. It fells Like a race car.
Funny how two people can have completely different experience from the same car. The GTS is not for everyone that is true.
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      01-30-2019, 02:35 PM   #18
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So many bad reviews on the GTS. If you want a luxury boat then go buy a Mercedes.

I've had the opportunity to drive an M4 GTS for an extensive period of time and loved every second of it. Side note..I have personally owned an e36 m3, e46 m3, and e92 m3. All cars were modified with stiffer suspension, etc etc...

Take off the skirt and put on the big boy pants.
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      01-31-2019, 01:27 AM   #19
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I've had my M4 GTS for over a year now and i love it! Straight up race car. Best BMW imo
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      01-31-2019, 01:54 AM   #20
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Quote:
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I've had my M4 GTS for over a year now and i love it! Straight up race car. Best BMW imo


Those who’ve never driven one for more than a few blocks, will never understand
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      02-01-2019, 12:37 PM   #21
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M4 GTS or GT3 - the real price

I have now owned my M4 GTS for 2 years and have thousands of miles on multiple tracks. This is not my first M and I have also owned Porsches in the past. As to being a track car:

1. Wrong seats, not possible to install 6 point belts. European BMW seats are the cost of a year of state college education.
2. CCB not economical for track use. I installed the Essex/AP solution - fantastic.
3. Many of the suspension pieces not suitable for track use, need to replace the eccentrics and front thrust arm.
4. Suspension must be lowered and must be set up for the track including camber plates.
5. Staggered tire setup not economical for track, needs a square set up.
6. Front lip spoiler is ridiculously expensive and fragile. Must be replaced with a sturdy solution.
7. MDM is far away too intrusive.
8. Water injection has not been reliable.

All that being said, it is a fun, fast car on the track that drives more like a Corvette (443 lbs./ft.) given the torque. I am happy with the decision to buy the car.

I originally wanted a GT3 and tried to purchase same:

1. Not possible to purchase new at list price under most circumstances. Dealers push the cars to "used" and mark them up $25k to $50k, sometimes more. Even so a basic GT3 with bucket seats is $155k without tax
2. GT3's are great track cars - reliable, easy to drive, and fast.
3. GT3's are now available with standard brakes AND a manual 6sp transmission. A very usable, economical and fun setup for the track.
4. The GT3's come standard with center lock wheels which require expensive special tools, exact torque procedures and significant physical effort to tighten the center lock nuts.
5. The staggered tire setup is not ideal. The rear tires are $550 each, ouch.

Still, with the exception of the acquisition price, a GT3 is a great track car.

So a GTS at current pricing with the above listed mods is still an economic option compared to a new GT3. Economics aside, my experience has been that the Porsche is more reliable than the BMW (after 2 years of track experience). Long term reliability is a very important factor.

Last edited by rcompound; 02-02-2019 at 11:52 AM.. Reason: typo
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