Sebring: GTS Impressions

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Just to mention what we all know anyway, what each individual need in camber etc would be very individual. Depending on what pressure one put on car. Depending on speed and overal drivingstyle. There are many cars Rolling way to much camber then they accually need. For instant there is no understeer at al in my 7.29btg lap in fully stock GTS on Nur. Just did 4 laps so not close to my limits or cars limit, hence start pushing it will eventually come. So if some one drive 8min Btg there is for sure no need for more camber than stock street setting wich I drove.

So I doubt any other GTS will understeer up untill this 7.29min btg as I feel nothing. Abuse understeer is somthing else and any fool can get that even at a 10min BTG pace.

So lets see sport auto supertest lap on 2.6km shot hockenheim GP track, its very fast at 1.09.06min. In film I cant see or anwhere else hear Christian talking about the GTS to understeer. Hence my conclusion is 1.09.06 sek is very fast there, and if you aint going faster stock track setting full Max aero front/rear is all one need.

Then we read Christian sport auto supertest on Porsche GT4, he tell that car is very understeer, very big problems in stock form. To manage set the ting lap they had to realign to get all camber they could, wich was not much more than it came from factory. Also Christian mention they did need to buy new tire prior to last supertest lap to even get out the lap time lap.

Now I drive ca 40-50 laps in my stock GT4 on Nurburgring and wow-Christian was right, it was a understeery pig! I did 7.30btg in GT4, very understeey, but if you lap 8min btg its not. Hence if you go in 8-9min btg pace around ring stock GT4 will not understeer.

But at 7.23btg(wich is sport auto pace it most defenitly will) Also at my GT4 pace 7.30btg, it will understeer and need more camber.

Also I did 2.45min pace in GTS on SPA, stock low BMW tracksetting and full aero front/rear-no understeer at all. I would give GTS a chance in lowdown tracksetting before I Said it was understeery. Christian say nothing on the matter. I was blown away how god it was in turn in grip, no understeer at al on ring or SPA. Cant say anything about other tracks, not try yet. Also in wet, very god and no understeer. GT4 very much more understeey in all circumstances.

It seems the GTS got it much more sweetspoot in the way it drive without understeer. I guess a combo of front engine weight on them wider 265( than GT4) tire with also slightly better aero grip vs GT4.

Looking forward to your report on same Sebring with low down track setting and different tire pressure. Would be intressing to get a report on that, I am sure it will drive much better.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

Just to mention what we all know anyway, what each individual need in camber etc would be very individual. Depending on what pressure one put on car. Depending on speed and overal drivingstyle. There are many cars Rolling way to much camber then they accually need. For instant there is no understeer at al in my 7.29btg lap in fully stock GTS on Nur. Just did 4 laps so not close to my limits or cars limit, hence start pushing it will eventually come. So if some one drive 8min Btg there is for sure no need for more camber than stock street setting wich I drove.

So I doubt any other GTS will understeer up untill this 7.29min btg as I feel nothing. Abuse understeer is somthing else and any fool can get that even at a 10min BTG pace.

So lets see sport auto supertest lap on 2.6km shot hockenheim GP track, its very fast at 1.09.06min. In film I cant see or anwhere else hear Christian talking about the GTS to understeer. Hence my conclusion is 1.09.06 sek is very fast there, and if you aint going faster stock track setting full Max aero front/rear is all one need.

Then we read Christian sport auto supertest on Porsche GT4, he tell that car is very understeer, very big problems in stock form. To manage set the ting lap they had to realign to get all camber they could, wich was not much more than it came from factory. Also Christian mention they did need to buy new tire prior to last supertest lap to even get out the lap time lap.

Now I drive ca 40-50 laps in my stock GT4 on Nurburgring and wow-Christian was right, it was a understeery pig! I did 7.30btg in GT4, very understeey, but if you lap 8min btg its not. Hence if you go in 8-9min btg pace around ring stock GT4 will not understeer.

But at 7.23btg(wich is sport auto pace it most defenitly will) Also at my GT4 pace 7.30btg, it will understeer and need more camber.

Also I did 2.45min pace in GTS on SPA, stock low BMW tracksetting and full aero front/rear-no understeer at all. I would give GTS a chance in lowdown tracksetting before I Said it was understeery. Christian say nothing on the matter. I was blown away how god it was in turn in grip, no understeer at al on ring or SPA. Cant say anything about other tracks, not try yet. Also in wet, very god and no understeer. GT4 very much more understeey in all circumstances.

It seems the GTS got it much more sweetspoot in the way it drive without understeer. I guess a combo of front engine weight on them wider 265( than GT4) tire with also slightly better aero grip vs GT4.

Looking forward to your report on same Sebring with low down track setting and different tire pressure. Would be intressing to get a report on that, I am sure it will drive much better.

Your fanboyism is pretty extreme. You seem to believe that the M4 GTS was made by the gods for the gods and that it is without flaw or opportunity for improvement. I think that this is where you lose credibility with many fellow forum members including myself.

While you seem to be a decent driver, based on your numerous posts, it also seems that you are lacking deeper knowledge about car setup and tuning.

Camber is far from being only about "understeer". It is mostly about getting an even distribution of temperature across the tread. This allows optimizing the total available grip provided by the tire and also optimizes its wear. So maybe a 7:29 BTG at the ring is not pushing it enough to get the front tires to overheat and wear unevenly on the stock camber, but a faster lap might.

What you did say correctly, is that the required camber is very dependent on many factors such as tires, driving style or track layout for instance. With all its other adjustability, I maintain it is a disappointment that camber is not adjustable on the GTS (it is actually even a disappointment that it is not adjustable on the base M3/4 IMO).

[Captain Unknown GT4]

Oh Thanks master, I did get something right. I dont accually care that much if I lose or gain whatever. This is not my Life, its seems its you living here that are more depending on geting or losing cred.


Al I do is put down my experienc. More or less. The gods thing is your words not mine.


You can't drive a GTS on a GP track layout in high streetmode and complaining its lack of camber. The GTS will be a whole new experience in low down track mode, that what you drive on GP tracks. Then car get more camber and more aggressive overall setup and it will not understeer at al compared vs driving it in GP track high setting.



Oh about the part 7.29 you mention, I guess you did get al worked up and did not see...that I write just that you say. ...if pushing more and more laps in I get to that point of understeer. You might calm down and read before you post.

Hell yes, I am a far better driver than working the tols. But I understand how things work. Hence as I Said, low down track setting will make you work that whole front tire and it will not understeer as It do in street setting on a GP TRACK.

And to end it, I dont know man, my numerus post, is that compared to you and the few post you Done here?

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Your fanboyism is pretty extreme. You seem to believe that the M4 GTS was made by the gods for the gods and that it is without flaw or opportunity for improvement. I think that this is where you lose credibility with many fellow forum members including myself.

While you seem to be a decent driver, based on your numerous posts, it also seems that you are lacking deeper knowledge about car setup and tuning.

Camber is far from being only about "understeer". It is mostly about getting an even distribution of temperature across the tread. This allows optimizing the total available grip provided by the tire and also optimizes its wear. So maybe a 7:29 BTG at the ring is not pushing it enough to get the front tires to overheat and wear unevenly on the stock camber, but a faster lap might.

What you did say correctly, is that the required camber is very dependent on many factors such as tires, driving style or track layout for instance. With all its other adjustability, I maintain it is a disappointment that camber is not adjustable on the GTS (it is actually even a disappointment that it is not adjustable on the base M3/4 IMO).

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

The gods thing is your words not mine.

That was a tongue in cheek figure of speech

Can you list what you think BMW could have done better with the GTS in terms of performance?

[VCP]

Ummmm Camber adjustability Seriously though I think some bigger tyre fitment would have really changed a lot of the test outcomes.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That was a tongue in cheek figure of speech

Can you list what you think BMW could have done better with the GTS in terms of performance?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by VCP

Ummmm Camber adjustability

Originally Posted by VCP

Seriously though I think some bigger tyre fitment would have really changed a lot of the test outcomes.

[Rasya]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

Oh Thanks master, I did get something right. I dont accually care that much if I lose or gain whatever. This is not my Life, its seems its you living here that are more depending on geting or losing cred.


Al I do is put down my experienc. More or less. The gods thing is your words not mine.


You can't drive a GTS on a GP track layout in high streetmode and complaining its lack of camber. The GTS will be a whole new experience in low down track mode, that what you drive on GP tracks. Then car get more camber and more aggressive overall setup and it will not understeer at al compared vs driving it in GP track high setting.



Oh about the part 7.29 you mention, I guess you did get al worked up and did not see...that I write just that you say. ...if pushing more and more laps in I get to that point of understeer. You might calm down and read before you post.

Hell yes, I am a far better driver than working the tols. But I understand how things work. Hence as I Said, low down track setting will make you work that whole front tire and it will not understeer as It do in street setting on a GP TRACK.

And to end it, I dont know man, my numerus post, is that compared to you and the few post you Done here?

You are right, as lowering the car as such will increase camber. Overheating your sidewalls may also be caused by too low of a tire pressure. Just my .02$

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Rasya

You are right, as lowering the car as such will increase camber. Overheating your sidewalls may also be caused by too low of a tire pressure. Just my .02$

Have a look at this thread, while lowering does increase negative camber slightly, it does not seem to do so by a significant amount. Not enough to get even front tire wear IMO.

[schnell325]

Nice option

[VCP]

Originally Posted by schnell325

Nice option

Attachment 1542277

Snap!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by schnell325

Nice option

Attachment 1542277

Those are the plates I have on my civic M4

[Captain Unknown GT4]

That thread do not mean much. Its a total transformation in the way the GTS steer/drive and turn in at low down track setting vs high street setting. We who drive the car on a regular base know this.

Rasya, you are spoot on. Car tranform in a mindblowing way. My first time I drove car in street setting then 1h later drop it to low down tracksetting I was blown away how it now was racecar reacting-now it was tramlining in the streets hooking up front end on al undulations and camber changes, instant turn in, totaly different feeling vs street setting. On track its no tramlining its just instant turn in no understeer, working whole front tire footprint on the tarmac. One can instant understand camber is fixed and like a trackcar things do not Move.

A sign its Done propper is also as its very easy to stay within the cup tire optimal operating range 70-90 degrees. If you got to less camber thats a hard thing to manage, then you roll to much outside tire and that way shot to much heat in to tire, hence its not then easy to stay inbetween 70-90 degrees.

Then again wrong tire pressure and abuse understeer driving also shot to much heat in to tire even if the camber is set to be ok.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Have a look at this thread, while lowering does increase negative camber slightly, it does not seem to do so by a significant amount. Not enough to get even front tire wear IMO.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4

That thread do not mean much. Its a total transformation in the way the GTS steer/drive and turn in at low down track setting vs high street setting. We who drive the car on a regular base know this.

Rasya, you are spoot on. Car tranform in a mindblowing way. My first time I drove car in street setting then 1h later drop it to low down tracksetting I was blown away how it now was racecar reacting-now it was tramlining in the streets hooking up front end on al undulations and camber changes, instant turn in, totaly different feeling vs street setting. On track its no tramlining its just instant turn in no understeer, working whole front tire footprint on the tarmac. One can instant understand camber is fixed and like a trackcar things do not Move.

A sign its Done propper is also as its very easy to stay within the cup tire optimal operating range 70-90 degrees. If you got to less camber thats a hard thing to manage, then you roll to much outside tire and that way shot to much heat in to tire, hence its not then easy to stay inbetween 70-90 degrees.

Then again wrong tire pressure and abuse understeer driving also shot to much heat in to tire even if the camber is set to be ok.

I am at the point of calling you a troll.

All I said is that lowering the car from street setup to track setup does not seem to change front camber by a significant amount. Period.

I never said or implied that is does not improve the car's handling performance

[schnell325]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Those are the plates I have on my civic M4

me too on my M3

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by schnell325

me too on my M3

Are you considering them for your GTS too?

[schnell325]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Are you considering them for your GTS too?

At this point in time, no. I wish to pay off (down) the GTS as much as possible in the next year.


But, I've been known to forget the bigger goal of paying off a car before I spend money on modifications.

[redrumm3]

Here are some photos from Sebring. Enjoy. Videos coming.

[schnell325]

Originally Posted by redrumm3

Here are some photos from Sebring. Enjoy. Videos coming.

[VCP]

Nice! Great pics

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by redrumm3

Here are some photos from Sebring. Enjoy. Videos coming.

[KillrM3]

[heckyeahbro69]

I'd like that post twice if I could