Video: M3 VS Giulia Quadrifoglio Owners' real life comparison (UK versions)

[mc3456]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

I laughed when I heard this too. Perfect would certainly not be anything BMW whether hydraulic or electric. Porsche would take that one.

Mc3456 - loving hearing your further impressions. I don't think you'll see a new M3 for many years. Looks like the Alfa has proven to be the alpha (pun intended) of the group. I like my M4 but there is no a think I love besides how nice it looks after you spend thousands to lower it, tiny if, add all the M performance grills and a trunk spoiler. It certainly lacks in many key areas (steering, sound, transmission, quality).

Thanks, I appreciate it. Just trying to give an honest assessment of both the Alfa and M3. They both have their pluses and minuses, but feel the Alfa is the more interesting of the two right now. The engine is just SO sweet. However, you won't want to hear this, but I do prefer the M3's steering. The limits ate higher on the Alfa, but find that it feels too light for my tastes. I rather like the M3s weighting in Sport setting. For me, it's just the right balance. Of course, thst is obviously subjective. All I can say is, the Alfa and BMW are the closest rivals now. We'll see how the Jaguar XE SVR is though when it arrives.

[savage.ulm1]

Originally Posted by mc3456

It's SO funny because it is similar in many ways, yet SO different at the same time. 580 miles into it and still trying to wrap my head around it after 22.5K in the M3.

I concluded about 30 mins ago while on a drive that if you could put the Alfa's engine and ride into the M3, you'd have the best sport sedan ever designed. I might update the M3's looks with some of the Alfa's sensual curves and to die for exhaust note, no better car there would be!

something like this?

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by mPlasticDesign

This reviewer thinks the M3 steering in sport+ is perfection? Lmao. The Alphas steering is 1000 times better. Looks are subjective but I personally prefer the smoother lines in car designs. It's why Porsche design has stood the test of time. The Guila wins this comparison hands down. Oh, and I've heard the argument that if you think the BMW is not so reliable get friendly with the Alpha service department. It's the same argument the Lexus crowd makes when discussing their M3 completion...don't be that guy.

Much better review imo:

Those reviewers are bi polar. if you watch them long enough you will see them love and hate every car they review- i.e. m3/m4, z06/c63 etc. they seem to be purely entertainers rather than journalists.

lexus is much more reliable than bmw's. had a few of both brands. some brands do better with some things and others do better with other things.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by savage.ulm1

something like this?

that's hilarious.

[Alpine Missile]

Having done quite a bit of research lately on the new Alfa, I have to give them applause at their debut. The real question here is the build quality folks- that in my opinion will make or break Alfa's second wind in the U.S. market especially. As for aesthetics, I really like the exterior minus the Infiniti taillamps but Alfa needs to do way more with the interior in an $80k car (so does BMW for that matter) Sure, it's clean and minimal in design but a little too minimal to be Italian and I can only imagine how horrible the electronics interface is once spoiled by the newer BMW software. Powertrain wise, for some reason, I just can't seem to get past the V6 in the Alfa. I know it's a beast and just a scaled down Ferrari V8 but durability wise and harmonically, inline sixes are worlds better engines. My new comp pack car just came off the dyno showing just over 500 stock hp at the crank.... and it feels it... and it's butter smooth as I hit redline. So, I don't truly think there's an 80 hp difference between them unless Alfa is playing the same game as BMW in underrating their engines.

Truly, the car's success will also depend heavily on dealer support. What happens after the sale is crucial. If they can't get reputable, logistically viable dealerships in place in large metro cities, it'll all be a moot point anyway. I believe the only dealership in Atlanta so far is down south below the airport. Most "North Enders" in this city would never consider a 60-70 mile drive for service. Hopefully Alfa isn't having the same issue getting well established dealerships to invest in the brand in other major cities.

Ok, I admit, Italian cars and motorcycles will always invoke more passion than their German or Japanese counterparts. ALWAYS. They're just damn sexy. I've owned several Ducatis in the past ten years and always seem to overlook their faults. Not because the electronic displays are stellar, or the fit and finish is perfect but because they're fast and sexy. I will continue to buy them until I'm too old to ride. Moreover, I've always dreamed of Ferrari ownership and I can only imagine I'd be willing to overlook that car's flaws as well. As a daily driver however, grinding through a couple hours of traffic jams per day, I might not be so flexible with "quirky". That's when I need "precise" and dare I say "clinical" which for me translates to form, function and reliability.

I will say that if Alfa were to throw some version of the Ferrari California V8 into the second generation Giulia and the cars aren't falling apart from normal use three years from now AND their is a reputable dealer close to me AND their was a decent parts supply chain, I'd be buying one just out of curiosity. Then again, that motor would put the car up into the low $100s and it would be pointless. At that point, I'd buy either a new Jaguar F type "R" or a well kept, low mileage used Ferrari at that point just to check it off my bucket list.

Again, kudos to Alfa for having the balls to enter a highly competitive segment with a perceivably solid offering... time will tell.

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by Jblack4083

Confirmed only 8-Speed Auto. No manual, no DCT

Manual available in Europe in LHD cars such as Italy, France, Germany etc... All RHD cars such as the UK and Australia are automatic. But based on reviews that doesn't matter much because the manual is not the best gearbox... Right now in the US the manual is not available, but I'm pretty sure it will be in coming years if people yell enough ;-)

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by Alpine Missile

Having done quite a bit of research lately on the new Alfa, I have to give them applause at their debut. The real question here is the build quality folks- that in my opinion will make or break Alfa's second wind in the U.S. market especially. As for aesthetics, I really like the exterior minus the Infiniti taillamps but Alfa needs to do way more with the interior in an $80k car (so does BMW for that matter) Sure, it's clean and minimal in design but a little too minimal to be Italian and I can only imagine how horrible the electronics interface is once spoiled by the newer BMW software. Powertrain wise, for some reason, I just can't seem to get past the V6 in the Alfa. I know it's a beast and just a scaled down Ferrari V8 but durability wise and harmonically, inline sixes are worlds better engines. My new comp pack car just came off the dyno showing just over 500 stock hp at the crank.... and it feels it... and it's butter smooth as I hit redline. So, I don't truly think there's an 80 hp difference between them unless Alfa is playing the same game as BMW in underrating their engines.

Truly, the car's success will also depend heavily on dealer support. What happens after the sale is crucial. If they can't get reputable, logistically viable dealerships in place in large metro cities, it'll all be a moot point anyway. I believe the only dealership in Atlanta so far is down south below the airport. Most "North Enders" in this city would never consider a 60-70 mile drive for service. Hopefully Alfa isn't having the same issue getting well established dealerships to invest in the brand in other major cities.

Ok, I admit, Italian cars and motorcycles will always invoke more passion than their German or Japanese counterparts. ALWAYS. They're just damn sexy. I've owned several Ducatis in the past ten years and always seem to overlook their faults. Not because the electronic displays are stellar, or the fit and finish is perfect but because they're fast and sexy. I will continue to buy them until I'm too old to ride. Moreover, I've always dreamed of Ferrari ownership and I can only imagine I'd be willing to overlook that car's flaws as well. As a daily driver however, grinding through a couple hours of traffic jams per day, I might not be so flexible with "quirky". That's when I need "precise" and dare I say "clinical" which for me translates to form, function and reliability.

I will say that if Alfa were to throw some version of the Ferrari California V8 into the second generation Giulia and the cars aren't falling apart from normal use three years from now AND their is a reputable dealer close to me AND their was a decent parts supply chain, I'd be buying one just out of curiosity. Then again, that motor would put the car up into the low $100s and it would be pointless. At that point, I'd buy either a new Jaguar F type "R" or a well kept, low mileage used Ferrari at that point just to check it off my bucket list.

Again, kudos to Alfa for having the balls to enter a highly competitive segment with a perceivably solid offering... time will tell.

We will see how Alfa sales goes, Alfa and Maserati are central to Fiat's plan of growing, but so far Maserati is floundering, will see how Alfa do.

[biggripper]

I feel like the look of the Giulia is polarising. For me I don't find it as attractive as the either the M3 or the M4....from every angle BMW wins here. I know a lot of folks have panned the sound of the current crop of M3/M4 but I personally love it for what it is. For me though it's no competition to the Giulia's sound.

I think the Giulia is exciting in so many ways but it excites me most for the competition it brings to the segment and in turn what it likely means for the next generation M3/M4. Popcorn in hand!

[UsualSuspect]

Thanks for the comparo!

Originally Posted by mc3456

Have both cars and I think there summary is pretty accurate. The M3 is more clinical (German!) whereas the Giulia Quadrafoglio is more emotional (Italiano!). The M3 is more daily driving flexible (fold down rear seats, infotainment), but the engine in the Alfa is handsdown better. It also seems to put the power tonthe ground better than the M3 despite having 80 more horsepower. Always loved the steering in my M3 and think it is the best in this class, however, the Giulia is much better balanced on the limit. I suspect the torque vectoring is better than the M3's limited slip diff.

The interior quality on the BMW is only slightly better, but the Alfa's interior and exterior design are pretty special in person. Lastly, the Alfa in Race mode sounds a 1,000x better than the M3. My M3 had an MPE, but though louder than the Giulia, the Alfa sound like a Ferrari underload. Just amazing.

Only time will tell on the general ownership experience and reliability, but hard to see it eclipsing the M3. I think the next Gen M3 will leapfrog over the Giulia QV out of absolute necessity, but if this is Alfa's entry point, I can't even fathom where they go from here, other than adding a few missing features, and adding even more horsepower. Lastly, Pogea Racing already has a 600hp tune on for the Giulia Quadrafoglio. Given how much faster the Alfa is than the M3, I'm not even sure the tune is desirable at this point. These cars are already approaching too fast for the public roads as is.

If you haven't seen, heard, ridden in, or driven the new Quadrafoglio yet...phone a friend who has access to one. BTW...my number's unlisted now!! ;-)

[Rudeboy]

Originally Posted by biggripper

I feel like the look of the Giulia is polarising. For me I don't find it as attractive as the either the M3 or the M4....from every angle BMW wins here. I know a lot of folks have panned the sound of the current crop of M3/M4 but I personally love it for what it is. For me though it's no competition to the Giulia's sound.

I think the Giulia is exciting in so many ways but it excites me most for the competition it brings to the segment and in turn what it likely means for the next generation M3/M4. Popcorn in hand!

Don't you know it's blasphemy to actually like or prefer the M3/M4 over any car that compares to it even on a BMW forum?

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

We will see how Alfa sales goes, Alfa and Maserati are central to Fiat's plan of growing, but so far Maserati is floundering, will see how Alfa do.

You can't really say that Maserati sales are floundering:
Worldwide sales:
42,100 units in 2016
32,474 in 2015
36,448 in 2014
15,393 in 2013
6,300 in 2012

The new product range started in 2012 with the Quattroporte and you can see that the brand is going stronger and stronger, especially with the Levante SUV. To put things in perspective, Maserati never broke 10,000 units/year before 2013. When Marchione said that Maserati had the potential to reach 60,000 cars worldwide, everybody thought he was crazy... Now, that doesn't seem too crazy anymore...

About Alfa, just for the US they've already sold more vehicles in 2 months (Jan-Feb) with 551 units than the whole 2016 year with 528 units... With the arrival of the Stelvio SUV that received lots of positive reviews, I can say that 2017 will be a great year for Alfa Romeo...

In the US it's too early to say, but in Europe, Alfa Sales have recorded their 1st increase in 2016 (with 66,155 units) since 2010 thanks to the Giulia. Sales increase was +16.7% from 2015 (56,688 units).

I have to say I'm very happy for Alfa Romeo. Sergio Marchione took a big gamble in developing the Giulia and Stelvio and it looks like it's going to pay off for the brand.

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

You can't really say that Maserati sales are floundering:
Worldwide sales:
42,100 units in 2016
32,474 in 2015
36,448 in 2014
15,393 in 2013
6,300 in 2012

The new product range started in 2012 with the Quattroporte and you can see that the brand is going stronger and stronger, especially with the Levante SUV. To put things in perspective, Maserati never broke 10,000 units/year before 2013. When Marchione said that Maserati had the potential to reach 60,000 cars worldwide, everybody thought he was crazy... Now, that doesn't seem too crazy anymore...

About Alfa, just for the US they've already sold more vehicles in 2 months (Jan-Feb) with 551 units than the whole 2016 year with 528 units... With the arrival of the Stelvio SUV that received lots of positive reviews, I can say that 2017 will be a great year for Alfa Romeo...

In the US it's too early to say, but in Europe, Alfa Sales have recorded their 1st increase in 2016 (with 66,155 units) since 2010 thanks to the Giulia. Sales increase was +16.7% from 2015 (56,688 units).

I have to say I'm very happy for Alfa Romeo. Sergio Marchione took a big gamble in developing the Giulia and Stelvio and it looks like it's going to pay off for the brand.

They fell far short of their goal of 50,000 cars in 2015, didn't make it on 2016 either.

I don't know what you call it, but missing the target two years in a row I call it failing or floundering. I am more than willing to take it back if they hit 75,000 in 2018.

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by mc3456

I intially wondered the same thing before getting to drive a Quadrifolio, but now having had a chance to drive them back to back daily for the last two weeks, I can honestly save it's not just street tires versus R compound tires.

The suspension on the Alfa is both firm and compliant. I drive the car yesterday on a bitterly cold 11 degree cold day, and even in those conditions, the Alfa felt more sure footed. R Compound tires alone don't behave that way in sub-freezing temps. There is something else mechanical going on here. I was even driving it in Race mode (traction control off) versus my M3 on Blizzaks. The Alfa still seems to put the power down better even on full boil.

Wait, you're comparing an awd cars ability to get traction on r comps versus a rwd on blizzaks and you just now acknowledge that? Reverse the tire configurations and then report back, otherwise your opinions are null and void.

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by Phatcat

They fell far short of their goal of 50,000 cars in 2015, didn't make it on 2016 either.

I don't know what you call it, but I call it failing or floundering. I am more than willing to take it back if they hit 75,000 in 2018.

I think you are missing the point... Maserati was a car company that NEVER made more than 10,000 units/year in their entire history prior to 2013. So 40,000+ units is a great achievement...

If the leader sets crazy numbers such as 60,000 units and the team reaches 40,000, I don't think I'd say that the team failed or floundered... In other words, can you say that they floundered by increasing their sales by +568% since 2012?

[Phatcat]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

I think you are missing the point... Maserati was a car company that NEVER made more than 10,000 units/year in their entire history prior to 2013. So 40,000+ units is a great achievement...

If the leader sets crazy numbers such as 60,000 units and the team reaches 40,000, I don't think I'd say that the team failed or floundered... In other words, can you say that they floundered by increasing their sales by +568% since 2012?

I'm not missing the point, you are missing my point. I'm just calling it for what it is. They set number and failed to hit it.

I didn't call them dead or impossible. Like I said, if they can hit the number, I'm more than willing to take it back.

[DS_BMW]

Originally Posted by MilehighM3

Wait, you're comparing an awd cars ability to get traction on r comps versus a rwd on blizzaks and you just now acknowledge that? Reverse the tire configurations and then report back, otherwise your opinions are null and void.

The Alfa is RWD.

[adc]

Does anyone know if there are any track tire/wheel combos available for the Giulia? What's the max size tires which can be fitted, I wonder...

For me, the street performance of the M3 is quite enough in traffic choked D.C., nowadays it's the track experiences that linger the most in memory and provide the most excitement. At the track, my otherwise stock M3 on 275/305 R comps is spellbinding, an incredible platform. I'm tempted to put a set of Ohlins on it and see what happens.

I would only be interested in the Alfa if it has similar track setups available. Otherwise it's going to be another BMW via Euro Delivery or secondhand Porsche.

[Habber]

As soon as the M3 gets a new competitor, the hate really starts to fly around here...

[horsepower_and_hounds]

My wife thinks it's profile looks kinda like a weird M2 ?

[mc3456]

Originally Posted by Alpine Missile

Having done quite a bit of research lately on the new Alfa, I have to give them applause at their debut. The real question here is the build quality folks- that in my opinion will make or break Alfa's second wind in the U.S. market especially. As for aesthetics, I really like the exterior minus the Infiniti taillamps but Alfa needs to do way more with the interior in an $80k car (so does BMW for that matter) Sure, it's clean and minimal in design but a little too minimal to be Italian and I can only imagine how horrible the electronics interface is once spoiled by the newer BMW software. Powertrain wise, for some reason, I just can't seem to get past the V6 in the Alfa. I know it's a beast and just a scaled down Ferrari V8 but durability wise and harmonically, inline sixes are worlds better engines. My new comp pack car just came off the dyno showing just over 500 stock hp at the crank.... and it feels it... and it's butter smooth as I hit redline. So, I don't truly think there's an 80 hp difference between them unless Alfa is playing the same game as BMW in underrating their engines.

Truly, the car's success will also depend heavily on dealer support. What happens after the sale is crucial. If they can't get reputable, logistically viable dealerships in place in large metro cities, it'll all be a moot point anyway. I believe the only dealership in Atlanta so far is down south below the airport. Most "North Enders" in this city would never consider a 60-70 mile drive for service. Hopefully Alfa isn't having the same issue getting well established dealerships to invest in the brand in other major cities.

Ok, I admit, Italian cars and motorcycles will always invoke more passion than their German or Japanese counterparts. ALWAYS. They're just damn sexy. I've owned several Ducatis in the past ten years and always seem to overlook their faults. Not because the electronic displays are stellar, or the fit and finish is perfect but because they're fast and sexy. I will continue to buy them until I'm too old to ride. Moreover, I've always dreamed of Ferrari ownership and I can only imagine I'd be willing to overlook that car's flaws as well. As a daily driver however, grinding through a couple hours of traffic jams per day, I might not be so flexible with "quirky". That's when I need "precise" and dare I say "clinical" which for me translates to form, function and reliability.

I will say that if Alfa were to throw some version of the Ferrari California V8 into the second generation Giulia and the cars aren't falling apart from normal use three years from now AND their is a reputable dealer close to me AND their was a decent parts supply chain, I'd be buying one just out of curiosity. Then again, that motor would put the car up into the low $100s and it would be pointless. At that point, I'd buy either a new Jaguar F type "R" or a well kept, low mileage used Ferrari at that point just to check it off my bucket list.

Again, kudos to Alfa for having the balls to enter a highly competitive segment with a perceivably solid offering... time will tell.

You had me until you claimed your ZCP M3 makes over 500hp. No way, no how. Sorry, but people are hoping, wishing, praying that to be true, and if it was, BMW would absolutely market it as such. Both the C63s and Alfa engines stock, are hands down better than the S55. The F80 is an amazing car, but when you drive the Alfa, you'll better understand the difference. It is truly night and day.

The M3 really needs to revamp the engine to stretch out the M3s lifecycle until the new M3 is introduced. That one should be just about the perfect car in my opinion.

[mc3456]

Originally Posted by MilehighM3

Wait, you're comparing an awd cars ability to get traction on r comps versus a rwd on blizzaks and you just now acknowledge that? Reverse the tire configurations and then report back, otherwise your opinions are null and void.

Hello...Quadrafoglio doesn't stand for AWD, Bro! I'm comparing R compunds in 11 degree weather to Blizzak LM32...which are absolutely better in cold weather. The real point is that in extreme cold weather the Alfa should be handicapped by R Compounds, not helped by them, yet it still was incredibly sure footed, even with traction control off!!!

Shit, when I turn traction control off in the M3 with MPSS on a 90 degree day, the car still doesn't put the power down to the ground that great. I'd call that pretty impressive for the Alfa's drivetrain.

[mc3456]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

I think you are missing the point... Maserati was a car company that NEVER made more than 10,000 units/year in their entire history prior to 2013. So 40,000+ units is a great achievement...

If the leader sets crazy numbers such as 60,000 units and the team reaches 40,000, I don't think I'd say that the team failed or floundered... In other words, can you say that they floundered by increasing their sales by +568% since 2012?

You sure do when 30,000 of those sales are still languishing on dealer lots. Dealers can't give these things away!