E85

[Fast4d]

any cars produced within the last decade should have zero problems with E85 as far as fuel system parts go.

[Swiftym3]

Originally Posted by Cloud IX

Congrats! When did you beat my 10.68? What did you end up running?

sorry forgot the 6mt in there hahah i added it ... your car is faster did you run the 10.6 on e85?

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by bm3nyc

Lets fix this a bit, CaryTheLabelGuy aka Cary Jordan was the first to reverse-engineer Full E85 on S55 and F80Paul Paul Johnson is the second tuner to announce and tune them with Full E85. Till this day these are the only tuners who have over 20+ proven customers on the forums not including the ones on Facebook and Instagram various blends of E50 up to Full E85 on 1/4 mile and Dynos over the last full year now. I am not including the ones that are offline and don't post their results.

Pureboost I've only seen 1 person and the other jordan from RKtunes 0 with proven hard data.
I think you're the 2nd person from the mhd camp

The term Reverse Engineering on figuring out which tuning parameter values are needed to run full E85 on an engine platform is a bit of stretch, and may pose an insult to real life Reverse Engineers. That's no different from saying RKTunes Reverse Engineered the single turbo setup on the S55... while true to a certain degree, Reverse Engineering is better applied to something more complex like figuring out a backdoor access to execute a DME unlock process via the OBDII port. After all, OBD unlock is the key reason for all the recent tuning breakthrough on the S55.

But hey, I'm sure we've read the same information around the webz, and I understand everyone has their own way of translating things, so sure, we can label certain breakthroughs however we see fit.

As for the MHD camp, there are more than a handful of them on full E85 that you don't hear about online. Although, the BM3 platform certainly has more tried and tested tuners when it comes to full E85 tuning.

Though, to give you an update on my present tuning situation, I'm the first to Reverse Engineer the BM3 100 Octane OTS map at the drag strip:

[Swiftym3]

jordan from RK i believe has one that made 643hp ... i saw the dyno i believe it was full e85 and i know personally from racing that car that it runs well

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by nars3000

Though, to give you an update on my present tuning situation, I'm the first to Reverse Engineer the BM3 100 Octane OTS map at the drag strip:

Drivermod is required 11.1@128mph OTS Stg1

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by FSociety

Drivermod is required 11.1@128mph OTS Stg1

So you think 11.1@128 is faster than 11.1@124.3? Which one do you think got more traction between the two runs?

It's so easy to be a sideline commentator online, but it only takes a little bit of effort to do a half way decent analysis. I don't like going off topic, but below are details about my Reverse Engineered - OTS 100 Octane map run:

Date: 08/11/18
Where: Sacramento Raceway
Weather: 101 F Degrees
Track Altitude Range: 40-100 ft. above sea level
Fuel Mixture: 5 gals 260 GT Plus, 3 gals 91 ACN (99.1 combined octane rating)
Misc:
* Full Adaptation Reset performed
* 1st run: 11.5
* 2nd run: 11.4
* 3rd run: 11.3
* 4th run: 11.1
* 5th run: 11.1
* 6th run: 11.1

Perhaps you can share a video of you executing one of these so called driver mods, where you're able to pull off 3 straight 11.1 runs in 101 F degrees temperature.

As for the IG video, peak weather for Sydney, Australia on 07/12/18 was 66 F degrees during daytime, with average track elevation of -300 ft. below sea level.

I guess I could've driver modded my way to cool the weather down in Sacramento by ~40 degrees, lower the track elevation to below sea level, and force the Adaptation Learning process to optimize sooner.

Any pro tips on how one could achieve all of this with a simple driver mod?

[Swiftym3]

isnt that a dct? ^ whats a driver mod do for that, weight less?

[prodigymb]

anyone get rail pressure issues running full E85?

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by prodigymb

anyone get rail pressure issues running full E85?

Not specifically a fuel rail pressure issue, but fuel trim maxes out sooner with E85, and there's been one known injector failure with full E85 use.

This is irregardless of how the E85 tune was flashed over (BM3, MHD, or other).

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by Swiftym3

isnt that a dct? ^ whats a driver mod do for that, weight less?

There's plenty of room for driver error with DCT, particularly with shift points, launch control, and launch prep. However, I'm not the one suggesting a driver mod fix from the sidelines.

[FSociety]

nars3000 respect for your posts on n54tech!
Btw you fucked up that Racegas Map thats what it was? Mixing Racegas + E85 lol do one or the other. Or have you already?
Posted your time on dragy yet?
Since you've tried a bunch a tune / platform which one are you running or run the most and why

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by FSociety

nars3000 respect for your posts on n54tech!
Btw you fucked up that Racegas Map thats what it was? Mixing Racegas + E85 lol do one or the other. Or have you already?
Posted your time on dragy yet?
Since you've tried a bunch a tune / platform which one are you running or run the most and why

The BM3 OTS maps have been very consistent, but BMS OTS BEFs (Race and E85) are actually right up there. Knowing what I know now, I'm confident I'll be able to reproduce the same results on the BMS E85 BEF with what I've been able to achieve with the BM3 Stage 2 Race map.

I'm not a fan of the BM3 logging functionality and output values so far, especially in Offline Mode -- I've already opened a support ticket to investigate an issue with empty datalogs (tried both macOS and Win10). So far, Dzenno has provided a workaround that I've yet to try, but it makes me wish I had kept the JB4 installed, so I can run it in Map 4 for data logging purposes, and to possibly play around with Map 6 values with BM3 serving as the BEF.

MHD is the most solid option for a true offline flasher with no pre-authentication needed to access its features. Their Adaptation Reset options are also nice, because they're granular, as opposed to the single Adaptation Reset option with BM3. MHD flash operation is definitely light years slower, but at the same time, its CAN to USB interface doesn't have the tendency of running into a connection timeout issue unlike the ENET and BM3 desktop agent.

All in all, each platform have their own strengths and weaknesses. A combination of all 3 solutions would probably produce the perfect tuning platform out there, but I'm satisfied with the overall value that BM3 offers.

As for ethanol and race fuel mixture, I either top off with E85 or high octane fuel depending on whether I want to make things run lean or rich. I've had no issues so far with this combination, but too much compensation over the other could be detrimental to performance.

[proTUNING Freaks]

Originally Posted by nars3000

The BM3 OTS maps have been very consistent, but BMS OTS BEFs (Race and E85) are actually right up there. Knowing what I know now, I'm confident I'll be able to reproduce the same results on the BMS E85 BEF with what I've been able to achieve with the BM3 Stage 2 Race map.

I'm not a fan of the BM3 logging functionality and output values so far, especially in Offline Mode -- I've already opened a support ticket to investigate an issue with empty datalogs (tried both macOS and Win10). So far, Dzenno has provided a workaround that I've yet to try, but it makes me wish I had kept the JB4 installed, so I can run it in Map 4 for data logging purposes, and to possibly play around with Map 6 values with BM3 serving as the BEF.

MHD is the most solid option for a true offline flasher with no pre-authentication needed to access its features. Their Adaptation Reset options are also nice, because they're granular, as opposed to the single Adaptation Reset option with BM3. MHD flash operation is definitely light years slower, but at the same time, its CAN to USB interface doesn't have the tendency of running into a connection timeout issue unlike the ENET and BM3 desktop agent.

All in all, each platform have their own strengths and weaknesses. A combination of all 3 solutions would probably produce the perfect tuning platform out there, but I'm satisfied with the overall value that BM3 offers.

As for ethanol and race fuel mixture, I either top off with E85 or high octane fuel depending on whether I want to make things run lean or rich. I've had no issues so far with this combination, but too much compensation over the other could be detrimental to performance.

Hi nars3000 ,
The issue you had with logging is simply cleared by clicking on reset settings in the About screen. With the JB4 on the car or say Awron gauge or similar you could end up not having data because they're active for instance.

As for flashing, there are no timeouts I'm aware of that aren't something caused by the user really something as simple as not having ignition on. Would love to know more detail there if you get a chance to email us at support@protuningfreaks.com. DCT TCU flashing which other tools don't provide is the only one I could see a timeout on due to being internet based still but TCU flashing is moving to offline flash mode as well very soon and will certainly get even quicker than it is today like DME flashing ended up once we moved it over into offline mode.

As for adaptations reset we simply always shoot for implementing whatever is easiest for end users to remove confusion and uncertainty so we clear adaptations in all ECUs in one shot. If making adaptations resets more granular (e.g. throttle, valvetronic, transmission) is something there's demand for we can add that in as well no big deal

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by proTUNING Freaks

Hi nars3000 ,
The issue you had with logging is simply cleared by clicking on reset settings in the About screen. With the JB4 on the car or say Awron gauge or similar you could end up not having data because they're active for instance.

As for flashing, there are no timeouts I'm aware of that aren't something caused by the user really something as simple as not having ignition on. Would love to know more detail there if you get a chance to email us at support@protuningfreaks.com. DCT TCU flashing which other tools don't provide is the only one I could see a timeout on due to being internet based still but TCU flashing is moving to offline flash mode as well very soon and will certainly get even quicker than it is today like DME flashing ended up once we moved it over into offline mode.

As for adaptations reset we simply always shoot for implementing whatever is easiest for end users to remove confusion and uncertainty so we clear adaptations in all ECUs in one shot. If making adaptations resets more granular (e.g. throttle, valvetronic, transmission) is something there's demand for we can add that in as well no big deal

Yes, this is the workaround that Dzenno provided that I've yet to try. It's just odd that this happened on two different OS platforms, and my logging efforts were pretty much all for nothing. No JB4 or Awron gauge installed. You'd need to disconnect the JB4 OBD connector to do anything with BM3 anyway.

Two other issues with the datalogging feature:

1. Page scroll increments are so far off. You pretty much have to drag the logging interface up and down to get to certain options.

2. Acceleration Pedal input returns no value, and the same with other inputs. Since you mentioned that the goal is to make things as easy as possible for the customer, why not remove all the meaningless data logging inputs and only keep the ones that work and matter? It's like having 300 cable channels, but you only really watch 10 of them or less. Less is more in this case.

I never mentioned any timeout issues pertaining to flashing. Although, the Offline Flashing option has been very finicky in my experience. The issue I've encountered twice on Windows 10 is that the OBD agent loses communication with the DME after 40 minutes of uptime or longer. I can't tell if the agent is making a keep-alive call in the background, but if this isn't already the case, then I would recommend adding this as a feature.

The only way I was able to get the communication working again was to let the car go to sleep for an hour or two. Again, this mainly happened with Windows 10; haven't experienced this with macOS using the same exact ENET cable.

As for Adaptation Reset granularity, it doesn't make sense to reset all of the adaptation values if one is only interested in doing a Throttle reset. Why force the DME to relearn everything when it's not necessary?

[proTUNING Freaks]

Originally Posted by nars3000

Yes, this is the workaround that Dzenno provided that I've yet to try. It's just odd that this happened on two different OS platforms, and my logging efforts were pretty much all for nothing. No JB4 or Awron gauge installed. You'd need to disconnect the JB4 OBD connector to do anything with BM3 anyway.

Two other issues with the datalogging feature:

1. Page scroll increments are so far off. You pretty much have to drag the logging interface up and down to get to certain options.

2. Acceleration Pedal input returns no value, and the same with other inputs. Since you mentioned that the goal is to make things as easy as possible for the customer, why not remove all the meaningless data logging inputs and only keep the ones that work and matter? It's like having 300 cable channels, but you only really watch 10 of them or less. Less is more in this case.

I never mentioned any timeout issues pertaining to flashing. Although, the Offline Flashing option has been very finicky in my experience. The issue I've encountered twice on Windows 10 is that the OBD agent loses communication with the DME after 40 minutes of uptime or longer. I can't tell if the agent is making a keep-alive call in the background, but if this isn't already the case, then I would recommend adding this as a feature.

The only way I was able to get the communication working again was to let the car go to sleep for an hour or two. Again, this mainly happened with Windows 10; haven't experienced this with macOS using the same exact ENET cable.

As for Adaptation Reset granularity, it doesn't make sense to reset all of the adaptation values if one is only interested in doing a Throttle reset. Why force the DME to relearn everything when it's not necessary?

That Accel. Pedal log error is just a generic error that's misleading as that channel is fundamental to logging and the error should just read better so that needs to be addressed.

What happened in your case is you've configured some additional logging channels past the default 34-35 that may not be active for your specific car and it just needs to be configured to be off, or, you can hit the Reset Settings button on the About screen and it'll get everything back to normal. Dash and logging channel configuration is stored in your account so whether you access it from a Mac/Windows/iPhone/iPad/Android it won't matter as that's just a user interface and configuration comes from your account's data. Btw, would love to know what channel it is!

Individual adaptation resets are no big deal and I've added in a ticket in the system to have those added. If there are any specific ones let us know or any other feature you may feel you'd like to see added we'll get to work on it.

For the 40min disconnect, I'm not really clear as there are customers going on road trips with the dash running far longer than 40mins at a time without issues. Might be best if you could email us at support with some additional details on this and we can look into it for you if you like. I've spent countless hours on dynos and on the road with a constant connection, live dash running to the car without any timeouts happening. I'm really curious what you've seen.

I've heard your BM3 Stage 2 OTS race map that's basically flash and go, pour some race gas in and line up, running ~22psi got you a 10.9@127mph pass first time out with it and that's awesome! I believe yours in fact happens to be the fastest off the shelf BM3 car out there currently Its not all that bad eh

To share some recent bm3 stats with you, there are currently over 8000 bm3 users, 14946 maps, 20425 datalogs, 2263 map requests, 9776 flashes since July 3rd 2018. Since release in November 2016 there have been 9729 support system tickets dealt with and we take huge pride in our customer support. There can be issues as with anything, features that aren't entirely clear or that could be better, everyone releases updates out there I can only say we're here to help get past any of those as quickly as we humanly can and that's all we can do.

[Fast4d]

I still have my JB4 installed while running BM3 maps.

the JB4 ODB plug comes off any time I am flashing or logging with BM3.

at times I have JB4 plugged in (map 1 or 2) while running BM3 OTS 'CS' map.

currently running custom E85 map I use JB4 for gauges only. my BM3 hardware device doesn't work. I'll start a ticket and get it solved soon.

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by proTUNING Freaks

That Accel. Pedal log error is just a generic error that's misleading as that channel is fundamental to logging and the error should just read better so that needs to be addressed.

What happened in your case is you've configured some additional logging channels past the default 34-35 that may not be active for your specific car and it just needs to be configured to be off, or, you can hit the Reset Settings button on the About screen and it'll get everything back to normal. Dash and logging channel configuration is stored in your account so whether you access it from a Mac/Windows/iPhone/iPad/Android it won't matter as that's just a user interface and configuration comes from your account's data. Btw, would love to know what channel it is!

Individual adaptation resets are no big deal and I've added in a ticket in the system to have those added. If there are any specific ones let us know or any other feature you may feel you'd like to see added we'll get to work on it.

For the 40min disconnect, I'm not really clear as there are customers going on road trips with the dash running far longer than 40mins at a time without issues. Might be best if you could email us at support with some additional details on this and we can look into it for you if you like. I've spent countless hours on dynos and on the road with a constant connection, live dash running to the car without any timeouts happening. I'm really curious what you've seen.

I've heard your BM3 Stage 2 OTS race map that's basically flash and go, pour some race gas in and line up, running ~22psi got you a 10.9@127mph pass first time out with it and that's awesome! I believe yours in fact happens to be the fastest off the shelf BM3 car out there currently Its not all that bad eh

To share some recent bm3 stats with you, there are currently over 8000 bm3 users, 14946 maps, 20425 datalogs, 2263 map requests, 9776 flashes since July 3rd 2018. Since release in November 2016 there have been 9729 support system tickets dealt with and we take huge pride in our customer support. There can be issues as with anything, features that aren't entirely clear or that could be better, everyone releases updates out there I can only say we're here to help get past any of those as quickly as we humanly can and that's all we can do.

Perhaps consider adding this (empty) data logging information on the FAQ somewhere.

I believe I have a screenshot of the connection timeout issue saved on my Windows laptop. I'll definitely open a support ticket if the issue happens again.

But yes, I'd love to see a more refined data logging interface. Right now, if you were to scroll up/down in http://www.bootmod3.net/www/index.ht...wer/dashconfig -- the UI would take a million years to get to the bottom. You actually need to click in to the page, then drag up/down to navigate. It's not a big deal with a mouse or touchscreen, but this proves to be a drag (pun intended) on touchpad inputs.

[BoostinChick]

If there is a more detailed E85 please link a n00b.

I am coming from FF set ups from a Subaru and love it. It seems from the quick research I've done this isn't on the F80's yet? It's still a manual swap on the tune with whatever tuner (BM3, etc.). How are you guys keeping on eye on ethanol content? I know winter blends around me tend to nosedive and I usually need to keep an additive handy.

Originally Posted by borikuampower

Local mechanic who has always worked BMWs... maybe its related to older fuel pumps? N54 or else? Either way, I've always read in here that there is no need to upgrade fuel lines or pumps to run E85... just a proper tune to maximize the benefits of the better fuel.

There are a few things to watch out for...(from my experience with older vehicles)

• Most fuel pump filters/socks are almost like a cloth type material and the E85 can end up either eating through it or clogging it. Even aftermarket fuel pumps that are E85 compatible suggest changing the fuel pump sock after so many cycles of E85.
• If you run straight E85 and not cycle between regular there is this black goo that can build up and can clog the injectors and fuel system
• Most OEM fuel systems are not a large enough diameter to support the increased fuel pressure needed and it's also older rubber hoses - if you let E85 just sit it can ruin those lines or you get the E85 smell (unless you have PTFE lined hoses)

I can understand the local mechanics concern, but as Fast4d mentioned most newer vehicles should be able to support it.

[hellokitty]

I use this stuff on my E50 blend. Helps with starting up the car without any hesitation on ethanol.

https://lucasoil.com/products/fuel-t...th-stabilizers

[BMWcurious]

Originally Posted by BoostinChick

I am coming from FF set ups from a Subaru and love it. It seems from the quick research I've done this isn't on the F80's yet? It's still a manual swap on the tune with whatever tuner (BM3, etc.). How are you guys keeping on eye on ethanol content? I know winter blends around me tend to nosedive and I usually need to keep an additive handy.

I have developed a working prototype FF solution similar to that on the N54 except the input to the ECU does not go through an analog input, but through CAN bus with custom safety features for fuel pressure and AFR errors. The same device does wireless realtime tuning, fast flashing and logging. It is not yet a commercial product, and I have no release date as it is now not so much up to me, but final testing, marketing deal with integration into partner software and another round of device prototypes are still needed.

Hope you are encouraged to hear it is indeed possible, as you can imagine it has been difficult to develop.

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

I use this stuff on my E50 blend. Helps with starting up the car without any hesitation on ethanol.

https://lucasoil.com/products/fuel-t...th-stabilizers

WARNING: This product can expose you to ethylbenzene, which is known to the State of California to cause cancer. For more information go to www.P65Warnings.ca.gov.

^^^ Lucas


I bought Power Plus Lubricant as recommended by Paul Johnson who's the tuner of a few friends.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Plus-...pe!07307!US!-1

LUBRICATES UPPER CYLINDERS AND ENTIRE FUEL SYSTEM
BLENDS 100% WITH ALL FUELS
REDUCES TOP END FRICTION, WHILE PREVENTING CORROSION AND GELLING
SUPERIOR RING SEAL FOR INCREASED COMPRESSION AND POWER
SAFE FOR INJECTORS, CARBURETORS, 02 SENSORS, AND CATALYTIC CONVERTERS

[BoostinChick]

Originally Posted by BMWcurious

I have developed a working prototype FF solution similar to that on the N54 except the input to the ECU does not go through an analog input, but through CAN bus with custom safety features for fuel pressure and AFR errors. The same device does wireless realtime tuning, fast flashing and logging. It is not yet a commercial product, and I have no release date as it is now not so much up to me, but final testing, marketing deal with integration into partner software and another round of device prototypes are still needed.

Hope you are encouraged to hear it is indeed possible, as you can imagine it has been difficult to develop.

Definitely encouraging! I will keep an eye out for further developments on this. I know it's no easy feat, but I have been spoiled with COBB so worth the wait