Road & Track M4cs Test Review

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by allinon72

I'll just point out that the M2 Competition receives nearly universal praise from the car mags, yet shares the same engine/drivetrain, exhaust note, electric steering, and weight (roughly) as the F series chassis, which seems to be the whipping boy of overly dramatic articles such as this one.

You have to ask yourself, why is that...

Yep, the M2C is smaller but still close to the same weight.

It's just "more driver friendly" and "reminds what BMW used to do" without going into specifics of what that actually is. Everyone who praises M2 or M2C barley goes into any specifics on why the car is loved other than we like it. Very few reviewers give real review on the reason, most just lemming each other on the reason.

M2's interior is also annoyingly outdated in comparison and people don't point that out nearly as much but oh no when it's the M3 or M4 it's suddenly a problem.

[danniexi]

Originally Posted by Arcades

Cammisa has been basically bitching bout the F8x since it was first released.

BMW hate brings in the clicks and views.

That being said, I felt Cammisa and cut-price Seth Rogen (sorry forgot his name) gave the M3 ZCP high praise when reviewing it against the Alfa Giulia Q.

[gripenM]

Here's a review I enjoyed watching.

It's in Dutch but you can turn on English cc

[Darth One]

Originally Posted by NYG

This thread will inevitably end up being 6 pages long.

I'll take the over on that.

I have to say that he makes good points. Even if you don't agree with his presumption that the whole F8x platform is disappointing, the CS does suffer a bit from BMW's shit strategy of slicing the pie way too thin with its models and trim levels. And a lot of the ways they tried to make the CS 'special' (a) didn't make it that special and (b) came with a negative tradeoff.

But the bpost rebuttal to this is "meh it's still a great platform and I got it at such a great discount that there was no downside vs the M4 comp". Which is fair enough. So I guess it's possible for both viewpoints to be right

[doug_999]

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...-m4-cs-review/

Odd, exactly what I have been saying. They took out stuff that didn't matter and raised the price 50%. And yet, every time I say that, I'm labeled a hater and "douchebag" and I'm simply upset that I didn't get a CS...

I wonder... if BMW had left in all the goodies - including the awesome rear sunshade (seriously, it is a rattle trap that I wish I didn't have), would the car still perform the same? I bet it would - even with a sunroof

And what if... what if... the car was only $5K more than the comp edition? Seriously, that would have been a great end to the F80/F82 era. The specs are there - the car performs. And for a kick in price, it would be so worth it - but as I've said, to take out things like dual climate control and comfort access and raise the price that much... well that's just silly. I've said that over and over - it doesn't make me hate the M3/M4cs - it just makes me upset with BMW for doing what they did.

And the reviewers continue to agree with me. Hmmm, maybe I am the guy writing these....

[shortseller]

What’s the real shame here is, we’re likely not to see that beautiful cf hood again. The rims I could live without but oh that hood!

[IB M]

The other rebuttal is simply that the CS looks amazing - turns heads - and that matters. You gotta be attracted to your mate. Some cars no matter how they may drive are just plain ugly.

Add the CCBs for cherry on top.

[dezzracer]

Originally Posted by arrivederci

Have you driven an M2 or M2 comp?

I have at M town event. Hammered on it too. Under powered and too small.

[CRtoE92]

As myself being a former owner of 15 m4, 16 m4, 18 m4 comp and now the CS, i guess i can directly compare

I really dont feel the differences in power between my 18 comp and CS That extra torque I have now in CS, i dont really utilize that in daily driving.

Its uncomfortable not having comfort access, i can definitely tell the interiority in sound quality in my cs than previous M4 with HK.

More than anything i do miss driving 6MT as all my previous M4s were dct

But i do still like my cs the most out of all the M4s I had because i know its special ( maybe not so much to other people including car and driver magazine) it has its distinctive features reminding you that its a semi track car every time you drive it

Im coming from owning several s2000s and i have s2000 CR which i stored away as its value has been increased significantly last 5 years so i dont really care about the comfort features to begin with in cars, so maybe this is why i am more tolerable in lack of comfort features in my CS

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Arcades

Yep, the M2C is smaller but still close to the same weight.

It's just "more driver friendly" and "reminds what BMW used to do" without going into specifics of what that actually is. Everyone who praises M2 or M2C barley goes into any specifics on why the car is loved other than we like it. Very few reviewers give real review on the reason, most just lemming each other on the reason.

M2's interior is also annoyingly outdated in comparison and people don't point that out nearly as much but oh no when it's the M3 or M4 it's suddenly a problem.

Exactly!

[TRZ06]

The simple fact is that the F chassis was never good. They have masked and patched it some with changes to damping and tweaks to the stability control system.

But you drive a F chassis in anger and at 10/10th and it disappoints.

Even the GTS with coilovers aren't up to snuff when compared its competitors.

BMW needs to still away the chassis engineers from GM.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

The simple fact is that the F chassis was never good. They have masked and patched it some with changes to damping and tweaks to the stability control system.

But you drive a F chassis in anger and at 10/10th and it disappoints.

Even the GTS with coilovers aren't up to snuff when compared its competitors.

BMW needs to still away the chassis engineers from GM.

That's preference, not the actual reason.

Hardly anyone has gone into specifics. F3x and F8x are built differently, everyone who has followed the F cars know this from the get go. People have either bitched that it is too soft (F3x) or it's too rough (F8x). The mass majority of owners don't track, nor do they care about the little details that so many have whined about or just BSed thinking they know about.

This is why car manufacturers don't build cars specifically for "car enthusiasts". Because everyone complains, whines, bitches about everything.

[Germanauto]

I'm the first to complain about how soft BMW has gotten but this article was total bull. He's essentially just complaining about the entire premise of the CS model. The lack of armrests and comfort access on a higher priced M4 model made him really butthurt, that's really what this is all about. Sure the F80/2 has felt more refined/isolating than the E90/2 and has number steering, but overall reviews of the ZCP and CS models have been very positive.

I suspect Cammisa takes joy in being an anti-BMW troll crusader for the press alongside Car & Driver. By blindly hating on BMW he gets more clicks.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Arcades

Yep, the M2C is smaller but still close to the same weight.

It's just "more driver friendly" and "reminds what BMW used to do" without going into specifics of what that actually is. Everyone who praises M2 or M2C barley goes into any specifics on why the car is loved other than we like it. Very few reviewers give real review on the reason, most just lemming each other on the reason.

M2's interior is also annoyingly outdated in comparison and people don't point that out nearly as much but oh no when it's the M3 or M4 it's suddenly a problem.

I'll admit I haven't driven the M4 ZCP, but the early iterations of the F82 I've driven left me a bit cold. The M2 is genuinely more involving to drive. From the size to most importantly, the steering calibration. The car is just so reminiscent of what BMW used to produce before the F-chassis. I don't know how else to describe it.

I agree the interior is very outdated, and the lack of any color options besides black with matte carbon trim sucks.

[Arcades]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I'm the first to complain about how soft BMW has gotten but this article was total bull. He's essentially just complaining about the entire premise of the CS model. The lack of armrests and comfort access on a higher priced M4 model made him really butthurt, that's really what this is all about. Sure the F80/2 has felt more refined/isolating than the E90/2 and number steering, but overall reviews of the ZCP and CS models have been very positive.

I suspect Cammisa takes joy in being an anti-BMW troll crusader for the press alongside Car & Driver. By blindly hating on BMW he gets more clicks.

I said the exact same thing on a private subforum here.

I never liked Cammisa. Not him the person but just the way he views cars and he just LOVES to pick on BMW lately, same with everyone from C&D. He nitpicks the hell out of BMW. Yet, when Porsche does this, they can get away with it because it's Porsche and they magically can. When Benz does something wrong, they generally get a pass too other than a few, "This car is too rough! It's a Benz!" (Aka from the former CLA45 and a few comments on the C63). Then they have the nerve to pick and choose how they review the Audi RS5 (B9) because they know (MotorTrend) The RS5 won't be good on track due to over steer/under steer so they review the RS5 in another way but wouldn't you know it they still pick the C63S regardless.

The only person reviewer I take any seriously is Chris Harris. As he doesn't slap all of his viewpoints (most of the time) due to track use of a car when he knows that isn't for it.

I don't mind the M2, don't get me wrong. The smaller size is way more appealing to me but it is still more or less a small F80. Probably because of the smaller size the car communicates better, so it feels better because of it. That I can get by driving.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

The simple fact is that the F chassis was never good. They have masked and patched it some with changes to damping and tweaks to the stability control system.

But you drive a F chassis in anger and at 10/10th and it disappoints.

Even the GTS with coilovers aren't up to snuff when compared its competitors.

BMW needs to still away the chassis engineers from GM.

I think objective data doesn't support this claim. Call it numb, soft, etc., but it outperforms previous iterations, which is what matters. So if it was never any good, what does that say about the E46 and E9X??!?!

[DML]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I'll admit I haven't driven the M4 ZCP, but the early iterations of the F82 I've driven left me a bit cold. The M2 is genuinely more involving to drive. From the size to most importantly, the steering calibration. The car is just so reminiscent of what BMW used to produce before the F-chassis. I don't know how else to describe it.

I agree the interior is very outdated, and the lack of any color options besides black with matte carbon trim sucks.

People buy "M" cars for the interior?? Wasn't aware, thanks

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I think objective data doesn't support this claim. Call it numb, soft, etc., but it outperforms previous iterations, which is what matters. So if it was never any good, what does that say about the E46 and E9X??!?!

That it’s underpowered without a S55.

[nicknaz]

the Cup 2 is a track monster. It produces almost no grip until warm, it takes considerable skill to control at the limit, it really only works in summer, and it’s flat-out unusable in the rain

I really don’t agree with this part of the article.

Cup2 are perfectly fine as street tires, and in the rain (with appropriate tread). They are not “track monsters” like a Hoosier.

Agree with other comments regarding this author. I ignore his articles and blog posts.

[gripenM]

Originally Posted by doug_999

And what if... what if... the car was only $5K more than the comp edition? Seriously, that would have been a great end to the F80/F82 era. The specs are there - the car performs. And for a kick in price, it would be so worth it - but as I've said, to take out things like dual climate control and comfort access and raise the price that much... well that's just silly. I've said that over and over - it doesn't make me hate the M3/M4cs - it just makes me upset with BMW for doing what they did.

And the reviewers continue to agree with me. Hmmm, maybe I am the guy writing these....

I actually really like the single zone climate control. It just works brilliantly without being complicated.
With the dual zone, i was first, adjusting the red/blue blender, then adjusting the temperature dials on both sides as i like to have them at the same temps.

with single zone, i simply adjust one dial for the temperature, result is the same

it makes me wonder why BMW bothers putting in the dual zone in the 3/4 series at all

as for the Comfort access, my assumption for its exclusion is that BMW expects owners of GTS/CS to have it as a 2nd car and leaving it parked for long periods can result in battery discharge. lack of CA means less source of battery consumption while it sits parked until the next drive.

lack of CA honestly never bothered me, it's more secure for one and less electronics to fail down the road.

[KANdaddy]

I give zero sh**s about these people that work for these outdated mags. The online/YouTube reviews and the opinions of the people here on this forum are far more valuable to me.

That said, my CS is more rare/special to me than other M3/4s, is the last of its generation, looks 1000000000xs better and my payment is less than most are paying for their ZCPs. That sounds like a win-win to me so Jason Cammisa can eat my nutz.

[domino_z]

Nailed it