Road & Track M4cs Test Review

[kss]

Originally Posted by KANdaddy

I give zero sh**s about these people that work for these outdated mags. The online/YouTube reviews and the opinions of the people here on this forum are far more valuable to me.

That said, my CS is more rare/special to me than other M3/4s, is the last of its generation, looks 1000000000xs better and my payment is less than most are paying for their ZCPs. That sounds like a win-win to me so Jason Cammisa can eat my nutz.

I don’t get the constant arguments/justifications that the CS is worth getting over the ZCP, because how much it was discounted. Who actually pays full sticker for the ZCP as well? My friend’s 2017 M4 ZCP was discounted $12k CAD. My 2017 ultimate edition M3 ZCP was discounted by $28.4K CAD (cost less than an 2018 M2’s selling price and was also less than the 2019 M2C). When I bought my car, they had another 2017 M3 ultimate edition ZCP discounted by $28.4k, as well as a Java green M4 discounted by $12k and a 2018 black ZCP M3 discounted by $12k. This year they had a 2018 M4 convertible discounted by $12k. So there were/are great deals to be had on the ZCP m3/m4’s as well, so I don’t buy the argument that people are getting the CS for less than a ZCP.

I love the carbon hood and prefer the 19” wheels of the CS, but even if the CS did have comfort access and regular insulation (which IMO were incredibly stupid omissions), there is no way I’d pay $15k CAD more for a discounted 2018 M3 CS. I could live without the centre armrest (but still prefer it), but there is no way I’d pay $15k more for a discounted CS than what I paid for my discounted ZCP.

Frankly, if the M2C had the full merino leather that my ZCP has and had the heads up display I would have bought that, because I do agree with the reviewers that the M2 is a more toss-able fun car. It’s too bad that BMW tuned down the M2C over the ZCP m3/m4’s and have much cheaper interiors than the Audi’s in the same bracket (i.e. ttRS and RS3), because the audi Napa leather is way better than the rubber bmw calls Dakota leather.

[Tellmee]

So many people are butt hurt that they cannot see the whole picture lol.

What makes CS absurd is that unlike porsche, you lose comfort features but do not get much performance along with it. If you compare a regular 911 GTS to 911 GT3 you see the price increase and loss of comfort equipment makes sense because the cars are very different when it comes to the experience and performance. CS does not bring anything valuable to the table but still takes away comfort features and steep price increase without giving any difference in experience and only negligible performance gain. And BMW get criticized a lot because all the people had higher expectations coming from previous gens out classing every other manufacturers but that is no longer the case. That is the weight you have to endure being at the top previously.
Everything aside, BMW usually aces a product after a disappointment(example: F10 M5 was mediocre at best but the F90 M5 is probably the best super sedan on the planet currently) so I have 0 doubt that the new generation of M3 coming out soon will be a killer and turn all the critics to love BMW again.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Tellmee

So many people are butt hurt that they cannot see the whole picture lol.

What makes CS absurd is that unlike porsche, you lose comfort features but do not get much performance along with it. If you compare a regular 911 GTS to 911 GT3 you see the price increase and loss of comfort equipment makes sense because the cars are very different when it comes to the experience and performance. CS does not bring anything valuable to the table but still takes away comfort features and steep price increase without giving any difference in experience and only negligible performance gain. And BMW get criticized a lot because all the people had higher expectations coming from previous gens out classing every other manufacturers but that is no longer the case. That is the weight you have to endure being at the top previously.
Everything aside, BMW usually aces a product after a disappointment(example: F10 M5 was mediocre at best but the F90 M5 is probably the best super sedan on the planet currently) so I have 0 doubt that the new generation of M3 coming out soon will be a killer and turn all the critics to love BMW again.

I am not butt hurt and I do see the complete picture. I don't really care what journos have to say about the M4cs.

I am 1.5 seconds faster around my local track with my M4cs compared to my previous M4, and that's with the same tires (Nitto NT01). I reckon this is substantial gain in performance. I really appreciate the increased elbow room from the armrest arrangement to handle the steering at the track. The single zone climate control is refreshingly simple and works perfectly well. The lightweight door cards contribute to the enhanced driving experience from the reduced sound deadening. As far as creature comfort, the only item it really lacks is comfort access. After discounts, the $12k USD price premium I paid for my M4cs over a discounted M4 Comp Pack was well worth it to me, far from the $30k people keep talking about.

I said it often, the M4cs is not meant for everyone, hence the limited volumes. But for those that it appeals to, it is a very compelling package.

[Jockey]

I'm not surprised all the F8x haters came back and flocked into this thread.

I'm sure the G8x will be better and outperform the F8x, just like the F8x is better and outperformed the E9x.

[gripenM]

Originally Posted by Tellmee

So many people are butt hurt that they cannot see the whole picture lol.

What makes CS absurd is that unlike porsche, you lose comfort features but do not get much performance along with it. If you compare a regular 911 GTS to 911 GT3 you see the price increase and loss of comfort equipment makes sense because the cars are very different when it comes to the experience and performance. CS does not bring anything valuable to the table but still takes away comfort features and steep price increase without giving any difference in experience and only negligible performance gain. And BMW get criticized a lot because all the people had higher expectations coming from previous gens out classing every other manufacturers but that is no longer the case. That is the weight you have to endure being at the top previously.
Everything aside, BMW usually aces a product after a disappointment(example: F10 M5 was mediocre at best but the F90 M5 is probably the best super sedan on the planet currently) so I have 0 doubt that the new generation of M3 coming out soon will be a killer and turn all the critics to love BMW again.

Have you driven both the F8x ZCP and CS?
if not, you cannot really give a valid opinion can you?

I've had my regular M4 for over a year, I've also driven an F80 ZCP for a few hours on the autobahn while I was in Germany.
I can confirm the CS definitely gives you a "difference in experience"
The way it accelerates alone feels much more special (responsive and explosive) compared to the others.

it's interesting to see this sort of chatter happens on the Porsche forums too

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...991-2-gt3.html

it's true though, the CS definitely is not for everyone.
It certainly was for me, though.

[marvinp]

Originally Posted by doug_999

Odd, exactly what I have been saying. They took out stuff that didn't matter and raised the price 50%. And yet, every time I say that, I'm labeled a hater and "douchebag" and I'm simply upset that I didn't get a CS...

I wonder... if BMW had left in all the goodies - including the awesome rear sunshade (seriously, it is a rattle trap that I wish I didn't have), would the car still perform the same? I bet it would - even with a sunroof

And what if... what if... the car was only $5K more than the comp edition? Seriously, that would have been a great end to the F80/F82 era. The specs are there - the car performs. And for a kick in price, it would be so worth it - but as I've said, to take out things like dual climate control and comfort access and raise the price that much... well that's just silly. I've said that over and over - it doesn't make me hate the M3/M4cs - it just makes me upset with BMW for doing what they did.

And the reviewers continue to agree with me. Hmmm, maybe I am the guy writing these....

I love how the CS drives but why they took out Comfort Access is beyond me. It couldn't have saved that much weight and it turns into a daily inconvenience. I recently drove a rental for a couple of weeks and the lack of keyless entry was infuriating.

[cca101]

This is from the same guy who was raving about the magical chassis of the Cadillac ATS-V as well as the Alfa, but then the M3 competition beat them all in lap time at Chuckwalla on inferior tires.

Magazine reviewers are very good at writing novels and extended articles, and that's about it. I realized this when I started racing motorcycles and compared my lap times to these "testers". The fastest of them are 3-5 seconds slower on average, that's significant. How can they accurately talk about the overall performance of these machines? This is the same problem with that ridiculous Tesla 3 vs m3 at Thunderhill "test".

Anyways, it's still enjoyable to read anything about performance cars/bikes, I just don't really care about their opinion. Now it seems everyone agrees the Porsches are the best

[Mandi90TT]

Originally Posted by kevCS

Another disappointment from bmw M, they've lost the plot ever since the e92 I'd say

Not sure what dimension you live in, but in this one, the F8x was objectively better than the E92 in every way. Subjectively, the exhaust note on the E92 was better, but that's about it.

The G8x will likely be better than the F8x, as well.

[Mandi90TT]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

The simple fact is that the F chassis was never good. They have masked and patched it some with changes to damping and tweaks to the stability control system.

But you drive a F chassis in anger and at 10/10th and it disappoints.

Even the GTS with coilovers aren't up to snuff when compared its competitors.

BMW needs to still away the chassis engineers from GM.

I track my F82 on a regular basis, and I can say that you are flat out wrong. It does not disappoint at all, and keeps up with cars that are supposedly much better.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by alex2364

That it's underpowered without a S55.

Ummm, they go hand in hand. That's a relatively lazy and nonsensical response. If it's underpowered without the S55, then the E9X was underpowered without the S65 as was the E46 without the S54.

[KANdaddy]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I am not butt hurt and I do see the complete picture. I don't really care what journos have to say about the M4cs.

I am 1.5 seconds faster around my local track with my M4cs compared to my previous M4, and that's with the same tires (Nitto NT01). I reckon this is substantial gain in performance. I really appreciate the increased elbow room from the armrest arrangement to handle the steering at the track. The single zone climate control is refreshingly simple and works perfectly well. The lightweight door cards contribute to the enhanced driving experience from the reduced sound deadening. As far as creature comfort, the only item it really lacks is comfort access. After discounts, the $12k USD price premium I paid for my M4cs over a discounted M4 Comp Pack was well worth it to me, far from the $30k people keep talking about.

I said it often, the M4cs is not meant for everyone, hence the limited volumes. But for those that it appeals to, it is a very compelling package.

Originally Posted by gripenM

Have you driven both the F8x ZCP and CS?
if not, you cannot really give a valid opinion can you?

I've had my regular M4 for over a year, I've also driven an F80 ZCP for a few hours on the autobahn while I was in Germany.
I can confirm the CS definitely gives you a "difference in experience"
The way it accelerates alone feels much more special (responsive and explosive) compared to the others.

it's interesting to see this sort of chatter happens on the Porsche forums too

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...991-2-gt3.html

it's true though, the CS definitely is not for everyone.
It certainly was for me, though.

These two guys get it 100% The CS is special. It's a difference numbers alone and journalist "expertise" opinions can't quantify. The CS was not even on my radar but I happened into an amazing opportunity and I'm so glad I did because had I not, I never would have driven a CS and therefore never experienced "difference in experience" because I would have based my opinion on paper to paper comparison, which admittedly doesn't make the CS seem worth it. I don't say any of these things as a slight on the ZCP. I wanted a ZCP and I've driven my friend's a lot and it is an amazing car as well....just different from the CS. The CS just suits me more.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by DML

People buy "M" cars for the interior?? Wasn't aware, thanks

When did I ever hint at that? All I said is I wish the M2 had a nicer interior, but driving dynamics come first.

And yes a lot of people buying M division products aren't enthusiasts. Why else has BMW watered down the steering of the M3/4, M5, etc.? A of of people with money to burn just want the most exclusive BMW they can buy.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Why else has BMW watered down the steering of the M3/4, M5, etc.?

Because money and profits

Not some conspiracy to water down the current M models

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Jockey

Because money and profits

Not some conspiracy to water down the current M models

That's exactly what I said. Softer steering even on M models = more sales

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

That's exactly what I said. Softer steering even on M models = more sales

And more sales means that what’s Bmw customers want.

People who don’t want softer steering and 4-5 seats and double purpose need to just shop elsewhere.

[DML]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

When did I ever hint at that? All I said is I wish the M2 had a nicer interior, but driving dynamics come first.

And yes a lot of people buying M division products aren't enthusiasts. Why else has BMW watered down the steering of the M3/4, M5, etc.? A of of people with money to burn just want the most exclusive BMW they can buy.

I agree with you, just never ceases to amaze me why some individuals purchase "M" cars. Just generalizing....My opinion is most people with money including myself, don't burn it unwisely

[///Mangler]

Strat or Les Paul?

Indica or sativa?

Blonde or brunette?

Length vs Girth?


Do people really give a shit what others think?

If it checks your boxes, and you can afford it, who..gives. a. F@$k?

I love the shit out of my salvage title M4. It will replace my E30 M3 track car one day. In the meantime, it's the best bang for the buck fun on the road today (again MY perspective).

I've had every single M3 iteration, all the while having an E30 M3 (my 6the one) the whole time, and to this day, I would rather drive a slow car fast, than a fast car faster.

T

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

That's exactly what I said. Softer steering even on M models = more sales

I’ve driven new 911s (I was actually quite surprised how light it was) and my older GT350 had softer steering than my M3/4s. Are they therefore watered down? Artificially heavier steering such as Sport and Sport + doesn’t make it feel sportier to me.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

That's exactly what I said. Softer steering even on M models = more sales

EPS was not a plan to soften M cars so that more people buy them.

The F8X is a more rigid, focused car than the previous version.

You're totally off on your conclusions.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by ///Mangler

Length vs Girth?

Anyone on here who doesn't wish for more of both is fake news! This thread is getting out of control and I'm loving it.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by minn19

I've driven new 911s (I was actually quite surprised how light it was) and my older GT350 had softer steering than my M3/4s. Are they therefore watered down? Artificially heavier steering such as Sport and Sport + doesn't make it feel sportier to me.

Agreed! I think the whole steering debate was blown out of proportion, and I would bet money that in a blind road test, most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two.

[hellokitty]

Glad I didn’t splurge the extra cash for the CS. Total oversell and not worth 15k extra.