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07-05-2012, 11:27 AM | #133 | |
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When I get home tonight I'll see if I took any photos of this, but I don't think I did. Last edited by robbieracer; 07-05-2012 at 11:40 AM.. |
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07-05-2012, 01:27 PM | #134 | |
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I actually think an E92 CSL is the best bet on whats under there
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07-05-2012, 03:37 PM | #135 | |
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07-05-2012, 05:03 PM | #136 |
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I would suspect South may have a bit more direct info to work with than you, but I could be wrong. "Zero chance" is a big statement, especially given everything is speculative. South, can you reveal any more about the E92 M3's last waltz?
Nice to see Swamp and E46 Love still banging away on the forum. Wasn't so long ago when we were speculating on the S65 redline based on a blurry spy photo.
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07-05-2012, 05:36 PM | #137 |
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07-05-2012, 05:41 PM | #138 |
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Even I do not know what it is. Because as I stated... BMW hold these clandestine gatherings all the time either for internal evaluation or external clinic trials , recently in the past week they have been showing the X4 along with the current X6 to show that bloodline and appeal the smaller X4 will have.
The BMW 4er Coupe is not released during the Olympics as will not , some Super sports car. As I continuously say it is not the time. Appeal of super GT's is limited and the traditional largest markets for these cars (US and Europe) have not fully recovered from the economic crisis. These cars operate in a more exclusive niche market and do not make significant returns from initial investment (unless you are VAG and rebody an existing car). Which is why many Sports car and supercar makers are diverting their attention to Super-SUV's. SUV's in general have proved far more resillient during the economic crisis with key markets such as China, Russia, Brazil and India generating huge demand for SUV's over supersports cars which is why many manufacturers are focusing on Super-Luxury SUV's because they generate huge profits. Super-Luxury SUV's are also entrenching on the premium luxury sedan market.
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07-05-2012, 06:02 PM | #139 | |
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Instead what M did was build cars via BMW Individual (Does not need board approval as they were built at M in Garching) using the R&D that was to be the E92 M3 CSL. That is the real story... The final hurrah of the E92 will be market specific and the M Performance accessories will play a key roll as will BMW Individual Paint. There has been no significant development on the dead E9X chassis as all R&D focus is on the F80, the next X5M, as well as the M6GC which will see S63tü Phase II. M is also key in developing a lot of other product (M Sport kits, suspension, M Performance Automobiles, supporting some of Alpina) so their hands are full with enough things for the future let alone a nostalgia project. Let's not forget that the "competion package" is really all the US saw with the E46 generation so why expect anything different? And Europe has already seen two CSL based limited editions... the car is already where it needs to be at this point in its life cycle.
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07-05-2012, 07:01 PM | #140 | |
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You just need to get with the times and get over the fact that NA M3 days are a thing of the past. BMW is adapting and it's simple as that. I'm sure that BMW will put enough power on tap for the new m3/4 to satisfy even your silly self. Some of the greatest track cars are turbo, evo, subi sti, Nissan gt-r. If you're not interested in FI then pick up another e46 m3 a perhaps an e92 m3 and keep those for the rest of your days, maybe you can crown yourself the last na m3 purist. Ok peace now Im not trying to argue with ya...
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07-05-2012, 07:20 PM | #141 | ||
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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07-05-2012, 10:32 PM | #142 |
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How are we even comparing an e9x m3 to a 335? its not even in the same ball park. the s65 is one of the greatest engines ever built. puts down more wheel torque than a Corvette Z06. Peak torque doesn't mean anything when it comes to running on a track. check this out: http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=23608
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07-05-2012, 11:08 PM | #143 |
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Nice to hear from you as well. I got really bored with the forum for quite some time. But have got more interested with the new model discussion. I recall that redline discussion well! Are you still enjoying your Cayman?
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07-05-2012, 11:14 PM | #144 | |
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I also agree with m3alabama on the usefulness of lots of torque at low rpms (not much). That is good for a lazy driving style and one who does not want to shift or fully utilize a cars capabilities.
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07-06-2012, 12:36 AM | #145 | |
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I think we're still comparing apples to oranges here. Cent ever compare m3 to 335. M3 >335 in every aspect except mpg. It's a purpose built machine. Yes the old M still beats the 335. Even an e46 m3 would dominate an 335 stock vs stock. F30 335 is predominantly carry over power train from the e series, save the new 8 speed auto of course. And I personally don't think you have to live at the track to enjoy an m3. Right now a 335i is what fits my needs and my lifestyle and it's what I chose. It has to accommodate me as a dd. I never bought it for any other reason. It definetly gets run hard at times and sees above 3,000rpm . I'd love to own an m3 but I just got rid of a race car that I don't have time for anymore. I do see one in the future for me however, and if I had to choose one I would go with an e46. Just loved the way it felt over an e92. But that's me. For what the 335i is, it hasn't disappointed. It's just an overall awesome car.
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07-06-2012, 04:34 AM | #146 |
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I have an N55 and my brother just sold his E90 M3 so I feel qualified to offer an opinion here, when you drive the M3 after driving my 135i, it does feel like it has less power in the midrange and when we race each other, I can usually pull a half to a full car length in that first gear if we start at let's say 4,000 or 5,000RPM, but if you drive the M3 like it was meant to be driven (in the lowest possible gear) it will walk past my 135i.
You have to remember that, while the M3 is rated at 295lb/ft and the 135i is rated at 300 (or 306)lb/ft, the M3 has a higher redline which means they were able to use a very short final drive ratio. The quick ratios really improve the amount of torque that actually gets to the ground so the M3 isn't actually slow in its midrange, it's just such a smooth engine that it may feel like it's lacking compared to the turbo motors in that low-midrange area. |
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07-06-2012, 11:06 AM | #147 |
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I have driven the 335is and the 1M and in my view, there is definitely turbo lag, especially when you nail the throttle (in any gear). The S65 and NA inline 6's have instantaneous throttle response.
As far as torque is concerned, it all depends on whether you are properly shifting in the right gear that will give you max torque. The 335is and 1M may feel like it has more torque if you're in 3rd gear going 40 mph and want to accelerate, but from a standing start, the M3's torque without any of the nannies on is very difficult to control. There was no way I was able to get anywhere near the same wheelspin on the 335is with similar launch parameters (which in my view is a disadvantage of the M3 in a drag-race situation). As several posters have mentioned previously, you need to multiply the gear and final drive ratios by the torque at any given RPM to get a total torque at the wheels effect. With the M3 it takes a lot of knowledge on how to drive the car and hit the right gear (which incidentally takes a lot of work), as this type of torque/power curve is unlike 99% of the cars out there today (the exceptions being a few engines from porsche, ferrari, and honda). With FI cars, it takes less work to get similar results...some people prefer this (especially for everyday commuting), while others like to engage with the car more and row the gears. It comes down to personal preference. Also, this notion of the 1M having being "faster" than the M3 is based on selective data mining and is so situation dependent. In straight line acceleration tests across numerous publications, the M3 (even in manual tranny) is the quicker car (esp. beyond 60+ mph). On relatively short, twisty tracks, the size and agility are advantages for the 1M (where it is objectively quicker) however on power tracks with long straights (like Nurburgring), the M3 is the faster car. |
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07-06-2012, 02:18 PM | #148 |
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I had A 2009 335i for 3 years and now E90 M3. When driving the 335i (N54), you almost convince yourself there is no lag because it is a quick car...until you jump into an NA motor. Lets not kid ourselves, the lag is there but its not horrible. I actually liked that jumpy feel...lol. Hopefully though, it will be "cured" with the new M3 but only time will tell. I think they will do something to minimize as much as possible but we may get an artifical feel...just my 2 cents.
My questions are: Is there a noticable improvement with the N55 w. respects to turbo lag How does the new M5 turbo lag compare to N54/N55
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07-07-2012, 06:20 PM | #150 | |
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Cheers, e46e92
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"...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan. |
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07-07-2012, 08:55 PM | #151 | |
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The two facts to keep in mind do seem somewhat contradictory. You must separate in gear vs. at any given speed.
(Note, there are some corrections to these principles for parasitic drive train losses and inertias, however, from both a practical and theoretical perspective they are basically true.) Another way to see this is that it is almost always better to downshift to gear n-2 or n-2, etc. from gear n even if you are in the rpm range of peak torque and peak acceleration. Why? Common sense informs us that the lower gears are better due to much more gear multiplication much more wheel torque and hence much more acceleration.
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07-09-2012, 08:53 AM | #153 |
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I am going to say it is the F82M4 because I doubt a normal 4 would run on 275 rear sections, and the m6/m5 runs on a 295 rear. Now if this was the normal 4 series, which I doubt, that would just go to show that the 4 is going to be something really serious lol. I just hope to see the M4 and 4 series start to loose some camo. I am really hopeful for this car but I need it to look really bad ass I have no doubt it will perform like a monster so BMW has that part covered. Just make a mini m6 and I would be happy. Doubt it will play out like that though.
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