Service with JB4

[schnazzy]

What is weird is I left my OBD2 plugged in, told the SA to not unplug it, set to map zero and they did some diags to find a fault I was having. They fixed the issue. now, what they exactly did I don't know. but they never said they had an issue of any sort.

I imagine they would have said something because with the cat les DPs I would have thrown an error with it unplugged.

[schnazzy]

darge82, They were trying to find a fault for the phone home system. My SA did say they did plug into the OBD2. As far as what diag, sorry. I don't know.

As far as throwing a code. I agree that just starting the car has never thrown a code for me but I have gotten codes within 2 minutes of driving. Granted... that's a cold start 1 minute warm up and a 1st and 2nd shift between 3k and 4.5k. For a time I could almost predict it.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by slowie

That my motto.....hahahahaha

Car went in for service, set to map 0 and disconnected OBD, all good.

Yep, especially on this car, 30 min or so to take it off is well worth it.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by schnazzy

What is weird is I left my OBD2 plugged in, told the SA to not unplug it, set to map zero and they did some diags to find a fault I was having. They fixed the issue. now, what they exactly did I don't know. but they never said they had an issue of any sort.

I imagine they would have said something because with the cat les DPs I would have thrown an error with it unplugged.

If the JB4 is on map0 it won't clear any codes. As expected though on map0 it does not cause any OBDII diagnostic issues despite the assertions here otherwise. In the future you could just unplug the OBDII connector when you drop the car off and tuck it under the panel without even going to map0 to have the same effect.

Mike

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

If the JB4 is on map0 it won't clear any codes. As expected though on map0 it does not cause any OBDII diagnostic issues despite the assertions here otherwise. In the future you could just unplug the OBDII connector when you drop the car off and tuck it under the panel without even going to map0 to have the same effect.

Mike

Or simply remove it prior to service and avoid silly threads like this. You're not making the tech's job any easier by trying to hide it from him. We've have had past instances in which customers "forgot" to tell there was a JB4 installed and thinking there was another problem at hand, losing valuable troubleshooting time that someone needs to pay for. Another instance last week was a customer reporting a trouble code, we couldn't diagnose it since the JB4 wiped it as part of it's CEL clearing process.

Isn't the surefire way to avoid any issues from the dealer just to remove it when in for service? It's not like your car is in the dealership on a regular basis for work.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Or simply remove it prior to service and avoid silly threads like this. You're not making the tech's job any easier by trying to hide it from him. We've have had past instances in which customers "forgot" to tell there was a JB4 installed and thinking there was another problem at hand, losing valuable troubleshooting time that someone needs to pay for. Another instance last week was a customer reporting a trouble code, we couldn't diagnose it since the JB4 wiped it as part of it's CEL clearing process.

Isn't the surefire way to avoid any issues from the dealer just to remove it when in for service? It's not like your car is in the dealership on a regular basis for work.

Complete agree with you for warranty work. But why pull it for routine maintenance or work not associated with the engine. If you are asking BMW to find a problem, then 100% remove as its one less thing to worry about and BMW techs are not great at thinking outside the box, especially on brand new cars.

Mike

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by darge82

WOW! Thats is quite the assumption

BMW follows an identify possible part and replace ideology. Great when under warranty but can get very expensive and tiresome when not. How many times do you hear stories of guys going in for work and dealer says car is fixed and 1-2 days later its back for same problem and another part is replaced. Sometime they will replace 5 things while clearly only one is faulty.

Happens a lot. They just have a different rule book or checklist then most independent shops I have worked with as they almost always deal with warranty issues and warranty work is a whole different ball game then when customer paying out of pocket.

I am obviously generalizing. I am sure there are some great techs at dealers but they may be handicapped by the system.

Mike

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

BMW follows an identify possible part and replace ideology. Great when under warranty but can get very expensive and tiresome when not. How many times do you hear stories of guys going in for work and dealer says car is fixed and 1-2 days later its back for same problem and another part is replaced. Sometime they will replace 5 things while clearly only one is faulty.

Happens a lot. They just have a different rule book or checklist then most independent shops I have worked with as they almost always deal with warranty issues and warranty work is a whole different ball game then when customer paying out of pocket.

I am obviously generalizing. I am sure there are some great techs at dealers but they may be handicapped by the system.

Mike

It's easy to armchair direct after the problem's been solved, but certain areas have procedures that need to be tested first in order to arrive at a solution. Sometimes or not this requires a return trip, depending on the issue. New vehicles have a learning curve until more experience is gained in certain areas. Few independents work on current production vehicles since the vehicles are still under warranty.

Dealers also expect vehicles to be in the same shape and form as they were sold. Aftermarket items can add variables to the mix, which takes time to troubleshoot. Make it easier on them and things are easier for you, techs love routine, not surprises.

Techs get beat up on a lot but deserve a lot of credit for the things they're put through on a daily basis under constant deadlines. Since they're the ones on the front line, they're easy to blame.

[9SECDD]

Originally Posted by darge82

I agree Tom, being a Tech is not as easy as some may think. Most people think you just hook up a scan tool, it tells you what is wrong, then you replace the part. OR like what is being assumed, they keep replacing parts until the car is fixed.

@ Mike,

First off, BMW does not allow you to just "shotgun" parts into a car until it is fixed. If you do that, they will charge the dealer back for improper repairs, unless it was directly authorized by BMW to do so in cases where there is a 1 off problem that cannot be resolved or is an obvious or known problem. These cars are VERY complex and you need to have some knowledge to fix these things and diagnose them properly. People think its easy when they read the forums and think they can diagnose the car from a keyboard and never turned a wrench in their life. Then when BMW cannot figure out a strange issue, they are all labeled as morons. Its not as easy sometimes as you think. Its quite comical actually....

If you are a BMW tech and you live by throwing parts at a car until its fixed, you will not make it in the industry, period.

Next thing, techs are flat rate, obviously you know what that means. So lets put something into perspective. You bring your F80 in for a problem with your Navigation screen randomly going blank. This requires the car to be scanned for diagnosis. Now, lets say you have a JB4 installed with the OBD connector but do not tell the tech or SA, OR you tell them its on Map 0 and not to touch the OBD connector. Tech goes to plug is scan tool into the OBD port and sees the JB4 plugged in there, because its obvious its there. He now has an option. Unplug it or try to plug into it an scan it. For arguments sake, lets say its set to Map 0. NOW, lets assume he now runs into an issue, because it DOES happen, regardless of what you say, communication gets disrupted even on Map 0. Most of the time you get a communication issue with the DME and it slows the scan down and wastes time (about 10 mins or so of waiting). It usually takes down anything connected to the PT-CAN system. Now the tech is trying to figure out why its doing that. He now unplugs the OBD, has to re scan, then it goes through as normal.

Who pays the tech for this since the vehicle is in for warranty work? He just wasted his time because of an aftermarket part that was added to the vehicle. BMW is not going to pay for it and you bet your ass the owner is not going to want to pay for it. So he just wasted his time.....

I can ASSURE you that setting to Map 0 and trying to scan using BMW EQUIPMENT, not free software downloaded from the internet, I am talking about dealer equipment at the dealer, it will cause communication problems exactly as I have mentioned. It may not be every single car but it does happen. I have FIRST HAND experience, nobody told me about this, this isn't info that was relayed to me from a dealer or a dealer employee. This has happened more than once, multiple S55s and also N55 platforms that tap into the CAN system causes issues with BMW diagnostics, even when set to Map 0.

Now lets say, the fix for the screen going blank is to program the vehicle with a software update. The software used to program the vehicle is different then the diagnostics. The tech goes to setup the car for programming and now the BMW software will not identify the vehicle even though the JB4 OBD is disconnected (this happens as well if you want to believe it or not) now the tech wasted more time and has to figure out why its not communicating because someone added aftermarket parts to the vehicle.... Who pays for this wasted time?

My point is. If you are going in for an oil change. Leave it connected. If you are super worried. Disconnect the OBD plug and tuck it away.

If you are going in for any sort of diagnostics. This is just not engine related issues but anything that the vehicle needs to be scanned for. This could be for a radio complaint, or a heat complaint, or a seat heater issue or headlight complaint, the car is going to get scanned. Just remove the JB4 completely to avoid conflict. Will some people be ok and get away with it? Sure. Will some have issues? Absolutely. Every tech reacts different when they see aftermarket parts as well. Some do not want to waste their time if its going to cause an issue.

But I can tell you this with 110% certainty. If you have a JB4 on the car and it created an issue with the car, the dealer can absolutely flag your VIN which will be attached to the VIN # forever regardless of where it goes and any dealer that services the car will see it INSTANTLY. If BMWNA or the Rep gets involved they can deny repairs, they can also SEE EVERYTHING even if the JB4 is removed, they will now it was/is there. As far as voiding your complete warranty, that is a case by case basis depending on your situation. There is no rule set in stone for that. If you have a JB4 and have a rear shock go bad they will most likely not care. If you send a rod through the side of the block (ohh wait that is happening on S55's too) then the story may be a little different if you are trying to pull a fast one on BMW to get them to foot the bill.

Its a $65-80k car. If you have a legit issue, remove the damn thing. Last thing you need to do is piss off a tech because they are wasting their time trying to get paid for warranty work and their scan device cannot work properly with the car because an aftermarket part is installed on the car. You are just taking money out of their pocket at that point. It was not designed to be there, regardless if it works or is not the problem or not, take it out. Make everyones life easier. Its not like it would need to be removed once a week and its not hard to remove anyway.

You gotta pay to play. Mod @ your own risk and accept the consequences that come with it in the event there is a problem with that car.

I guess I am the exception to the rule, but I am perfectly willing to pay for the extra time it takes the tech to deal with my mods. If it needs to be removed or unplugged, go for it and put it back when you're done. If it causes a delay, bill me for it. I just don't have the time, skill or desire to remove it. If it causes a problem, I accept that it's on me.