Hex Tune or BM3

[Mjaspreet]

Hey! I'm going to be tuning my car but don't know which would be the better out of the two for me. I'll just be running exhaust with downpipes, bmc air filters, and charge pipes. Be using 91 cali fuel 99% of the time. I have dct and will also get the dct flash to go with it. Also is the crank hub issue something I should be cautious of as I only have 5k miles on my car.

[SuperSport]

Interested in getting feedback on this also

[AhsanU]

I too was in the same boat as you - VF's very polished Hex tune, or the latest craze surrounding these forums - bootmod3.

I honestly believe it'll be a never ending debate. However, choosing between the two was relatively easy for me. I have ultimately decided to go for bootmod3 because of its potential in tuning maps specifically to your mods, price, power curve, and features. I'll break down what I mean:

Potential in tuning: bootmod3 allows for custom maps. One of the most knowledgeable users on these forums, CaryTheLabelGuy, currently is customising his OTS (off the shelf) E30 stage 2 map to run a higher ethanol content. This is pretty crazy IMO! I personally will be eventually running port injection, in which case a custom tune for 100% E85 can be created for my car, then later down the line I may run a Pure Turbos stage 2 - in which case I can again get another map tailored to the mods that I have on my car. Bootmod3 has near endless limits to tuning capabilities.

Price: bootmod3 is literally half the price of the VF Hex tune. The price quotes I received for the VF Hex didn't include the TCU upgrade for DCT cars either, this upgrade comes standard with bootmod3. I won't state prices, but I will say the money I'll have saved can be used on other worth while mods.

Power curve: check out the dynos that bootmod3 have provided on their thread. Your car will make power higher in the rev range, so it's a much more linear power band/feel than the VF Hex tunes power curve. I personally enjoy revving the car out.

Features: the ability to change maps as necessary is wicked. If I decide to run 93 fuel with about 4.3 gallons of E85 (making it about E30 if there's 10% ethanol in the 93) I can do that on their OTS E30 map. If I'm stuck at a petrol station where there's no E85, then I can quickly change over to a 93 octane fuel map to ensure smoothness and no harm to the engine. Being able to data log easily is also a plus.

All in all, if you're looking to customise and switch maps in your car, bootmod3 is definitely the way to go. The VF Hex tune is more of a set it and forget it type of flash. I thought I'd be the type of guy to prefer a "set it and forget it" tune, but doing research has opened my eyes in terms of what can be accomplished by this chassis and the S55.

As a small disclaimer, I have no affiliation with bootmod3 and am just an enthusiast. I'll be getting my bootmod3 done in the next week or two

Good luck!

[m4282]

Originally Posted by AhsanU

I too was in the same boat as you - VF's very polished Hex tune, or the latest craze surrounding these forums - bootmod3.

I honestly believe it'll be a never ending debate. However, choosing between the two was relatively easy for me. I have ultimately decided to go for bootmod3 because of its potential in tuning maps specifically to your mods, price, power curve, and features. I'll break down what I mean:

Potential in tuning: bootmod3 allows for custom maps. One of the most knowledgeable users on these forums, CaryTheLabelGuy, currently is customising his OTS (off the shelf) E30 stage 2 map to run a higher ethanol content. This is pretty crazy IMO! I personally will be eventually running port injection, in which case a custom tune for 100% E85 can be created for my car, then later down the line I may run a Pure Turbos stage 2 - in which case I can again get another map tailored to the mods that I have on my car. Bootmod3 has near endless limits to tuning capabilities.

Price: bootmod3 is literally half the price of the VF Hex tune. The price quotes I received for the VF Hex didn't include the TCU upgrade for DCT cars either, this upgrade comes standard with bootmod3. I won't state prices, but I will say the money I'll have saved can be used on other worth while mods.

Power curve: check out the dynos that bootmod3 have provided on their thread. Your car will make power higher in the rev range, so it's a much more linear power band/feel than the VF Hex tunes power curve. I personally enjoy revving the car out.

Features: the ability to change maps as necessary is wicked. If I decide to run 93 fuel with about 4.3 gallons of E85 (making it about E30 if there's 10% ethanol in the 93) I can do that on their OTS E30 map. If I'm stuck at a petrol station where there's no E85, then I can quickly change over to a 93 octane fuel map to ensure smoothness and no harm to the engine. Being about to data log easily is also a plus.

All in all, if you're looking to customise and switch maps in your car, bootmod3 is definitely the way to go. The VF Hex tune is more of a set it and forget it type of flash. I thought I'd be the type of guy to prefer a "set it and forget it" tune, but doing research has opened my eyes in terms of what can be accomplished by this chassis and the S55.

As a small disclaimer, I have no affiliation with bootmod3 and am just an enthusiast. I'll be getting my bootmod3 done in the next week or two

Good luck!

From the bands seen - BM3 is what dinan power upgrades should be and should feel but don't for whatever reason.

[chewbakam4]

Ask yourself do you want a file made for stock turbos and downpipes and pay more or you want that plus a heck of a lot more features, not be locked down to a tune or tuner, maybe even do stuff yourself or with your buddy, members in the community if so inclined. If the latter then its BM3 and you can resell your tune license if and when you decide to move on.

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Originally Posted by AhsanU

I too was in the same boat as you - VF's very polished Hex tune, or the latest craze surrounding these forums - bootmod3.

I honestly believe it'll be a never ending debate. However, choosing between the two was relatively easy for me. I have ultimately decided to go for bootmod3 because of its potential in tuning maps specifically to your mods, price, power curve, and features. I'll break down what I mean:

Potential in tuning: bootmod3 allows for custom maps. One of the most knowledgeable users on these forums, CaryTheLabelGuy, currently is customising his OTS (off the shelf) E30 stage 2 map to run a higher ethanol content. This is pretty crazy IMO! I personally will be eventually running port injection, in which case a custom tune for 100% E85 can be created for my car, then later down the line I may run a Pure Turbos stage 2 - in which case I can again get another map tailored to the mods that I have on my car. Bootmod3 has near endless limits to tuning capabilities.

Price: bootmod3 is literally half the price of the VF Hex tune. The price quotes I received for the VF Hex didn't include the TCU upgrade for DCT cars either, this upgrade comes standard with bootmod3. I won't state prices, but I will say the money I'll have saved can be used on other worth while mods.

Power curve: check out the dynos that bootmod3 have provided on their thread. Your car will make power higher in the rev range, so it's a much more linear power band/feel than the VF Hex tunes power curve. I personally enjoy revving the car out.

Features: the ability to change maps as necessary is wicked. If I decide to run 93 fuel with about 4.3 gallons of E85 (making it about E30 if there's 10% ethanol in the 93) I can do that on their OTS E30 map. If I'm stuck at a petrol station where there's no E85, then I can quickly change over to a 93 octane fuel map to ensure smoothness and no harm to the engine. Being about to data log easily is also a plus.

All in all, if you're looking to customise and switch maps in your car, bootmod3 is definitely the way to go. The VF Hex tune is more of a set it and forget it type of flash. I thought I'd be the type of guy to prefer a "set it and forget it" tune, but doing research has opened my eyes in terms of what can be accomplished by this chassis and the S55.

As a small disclaimer, I have no affiliation with bootmod3 and am just an enthusiast. I'll be getting my bootmod3 done in the next week or two

Good luck!

I'm actually able to run E43 on the E30 Stg 2 map with ZERO tuning over what PTF did to the E30 map. That's even more impressive as I haven't even started custom tuning yet. I've also not found the max ethanol content on the E30 map either. There seems to be plenty of headroom left in the E30 map for even more ethanol over and above E43.

[dmk08]

BM3.

I wouldn't call VF more polished.. unless you believe VFs marketing hype...

[GlazierGlaze]

Sub'd for more discussion. I've been on the VF hype train waiting to get mine installed, but lack of communication from VF and my local tuner has kind of turned me off. Looking into BM3.

For someone who is interested in easily switching between maps, only interested in a Stock map, Stage 2 (93 and full exhaust/intakes) map, and a Stage 2+ (Race and full exhaust/intakes) would this make sense to get? Also I liked the GTS features of VF's tune. Data logging and custom tuning is nice, but doubt I'll dive into that much.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by GlazierGlaze

Sub'd for more discussion. I've been on the VF hype train waiting to get mine installed, but lack of communication from VF and my local tuner has kind of turned me off. Looking into BM3.

For someone who is interested in easily switching between maps, only interested in a Stock map, Stage 2 (93 and full exhaust/intakes) map, and a Stage 2+ (Race and full exhaust/intakes) would this make sense to get? Also I liked the GTS features of VF's tune. Data logging and custom tuning is nice, but doubt I'll dive into that much.

Ill say this. I had some small concerns with my stage 2 tune when I first got it loaded and PTF replied to me over the weekend as late as midnight to make sure I was satisfied. Great customer service thus far.

[F80Paul]

I'm a very satisfied BM3 user running a modified OTS map specifically designed to make the best use of my crappy local 93 octane (no E85 availability) along with a boat load of 100% meth injection via the JB4 stacked. And now that I'm getting my turbos upgraded all I have to do is purchase a $300 custom map. I feel like the BM3 is the perfect tune to maximize just about any situation at a very reasonable cost!

[Sleeper]

I'm not sure why people compare VF against BM3 - they're two different solutions.

BM3 = tuning "suite". The OTS maps are just one small part of what you get. As of today, you have the ability to run multiple OTS maps for various fuels and mods, you have the ability to flash your DCT, and you have the ability to flash back to true stock, stock with the tamper code removed, and all of their OTS maps with no tamper code. This is all included in your initial license and unlock purchase.

In the future, you'll have the opportunity to custom tune your maps depending on fuel, mods, intention (drag map, circuit map, street map)... the list goes on. And from reading PTF's posts, there will be the app-based ability to set how much "burble"/overrun desired, control the exhaust valves (available now but still needs tweaking AFAIK), and probably a multitude of other features that will become available.

How is that even remotely in the same ballpark as shipping your ECU to VF or a dealer, paying whatever you pay for the tune, having the DME unlocked, buying a $300 cable, buying a DCT flash (that's available for free if you know what you're doing), having a map loaded, and that's the end of the road for you unless VF provides additional OTS maps that suit your mods?

The stupidity of comparing dyno graphs of VF's stage maps against BM3's OTS maps is mind-boggling. What purpose does that actually serve? Irrespective of the comparison of a BM3 run in one part of the country on a totally different dyno (including dyno type, set-up and dyno calibration) against a VF dyno with similar variables, there are zero conclusions to be drawn other than both improve performance over stock.

BM3 =! stage maps only. It's just part of the tuning bundle you get. To me, in addition to everything else you get, it's just a bonus that you do have such solid OTS maps available for almost all the standard setups.

I'll repeat: VF = a tune; BM3 = a tuning suite. The fact that one is less expensive than the other is just icing on the cake.

/dissertation

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

I'm not sure why people compare VF against BM3 - they're two different solutions.

BM3 = tuning "suite". The OTS maps are just one small part of what you get. As of today, you have the ability to run multiple OTS maps for various fuels and mods, you have the ability to flash your DCT, and you have the ability to flash back to true stock, stock with the tamper code removed, and all of their OTS maps with no tamper code. This is all included in your initial license and unlock purchase.

In the future, you'll have the opportunity to custom tune your maps depending on fuel, mods, intention (drag map, circuit map, street map)... the list goes on. And from reading PTF's posts, there will be the app-based ability to set how much "burble"/overrun desired, control the exhaust valves (available now but still needs tweaking AFAIK), and probably a multitude of other features that will become available.

How is that even remotely in the same ballpark as shipping your ECU to VF or a dealer, paying whatever you pay for the tune, having the DME unlocked, buying a $300 cable, buying a DCT flash (that's available for free if you know what you're doing), having a map loaded, and that's the end of the road for you unless VF provides additional OTS maps that suit your mods?

The stupidity of comparing dyno graphs of VF's stage maps against BM3's OTS maps is mind-boggling. What purpose does that actually serve? Irrespective of the comparison of a BM3 run in one part of the country on a totally different dyno (including dyno type, set-up and dyno calibration) against a VF dyno with similar variables, there are zero conclusions to be drawn other than both improve performance over stock.

BM3 =! stage maps only. It's just part of the tuning bundle you get. To me, in addition to everything else you get, it's just a bonus that you do have such solid OTS maps available for almost all the standard setups.

I'll repeat: VF = a tune; BM3 = a tuning suite. The fact that one is less expensive than the other is just icing on the cake.

/dissertation

To be clear only 1 OTS map is free. I had to pay $100 for my second one.

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by dmk08

To be clear only 1 OTS map is free. I had to pay $100 for my second one.

Yep, and $300 for custom maps. It doesn't change the two different offerings.

[1FastS4]

Originally Posted by dmk08

BM3.

I wouldn't call VF more polished.. unless you believe VFs marketing hype...

I chose VF/HEX because of the amount of testing and validation that goes into their product. The BM3 fans love to call it marketing hype, but we've seen VF's development facility and both of their dynos.

• They've posted videos of the cars being tuned on their Mustang Dyno and measured on their DynoJet.

• They've posted dyno plots for all the different software stages they offer and we've seen independent dynos in other parts of the country that produce the same results.

• We've seen cars on West Coast drag strips (including mine) and cars on the East Coast running nearly identical times.

They seem to be delivering exactly what is promised, so I'm curious how anyone other than a BM3 owner can consider that to be "hype"?

[1FastS4]

The allure of custom tuning seems to suck people in, but in reality how many of you feel comfortable tweaking things on your own and then datlogging on public roads to try and find extra power? I'm sure there's a small handful of people who really do THINK they can tune their own car and make more power than an "off the shelf tune", and then there's reality.

If you're an ethanol junkie or plan on doing something outside of the box then BM3 is your ticket.

If you're a pump gas person who likes the idea of switching between pre-engineered MAPs for different power levels, then HEX Tuning has everything covered.

VF Engineering just started including their HEX MAP Changing Cable in the price of their software so the price argument for price just went out the window. You can get HEX now for as little as $895 plus installation. Remove and replace the ECU yourself and then installation is covered as well since they don't charge for unlocking.

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by 1FastS4

I chose VF/HEX because of the amount of testing and validation that goes into their product. The BM3 fans love to call it marketing hype, but we've seen VF's development facility and both of their dynos.

• They've posted videos of the cars being tuned on their Mustang Dyno and measured on their DynoJet.

• They've posted dyno plots for all the different software stages they offer and we've seen independent dynos in other parts of the country that produce the same results.

• We've seen cars on West Coast drag strips (including mine) and cars on the East Coast running nearly identical times.

They seem to be delivering exactly what is promised, so I'm curious how anyone other than a BM3 owner can consider that to be "hype"?

I don't think anyone is (or should be) disputing that VF offers a great tune. Tuning is the easy part to be honest. There is no magic in it. The issue is comparing VF's OTS tunes against BM3's OTS tunes - it's pointless. That's like comparing a slice of an apple to an entire apple.

If you still insist on doing the comparison, people should ask what tuning methodology they prefer - high vs. low boost, high vs. low ignition advance, AFR tuning etc.

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by 1FastS4

The allure of custom tuning seems to suck people in, but in reality how many of you feel comfortable tweaking things on your own and then datlogging on public roads to try and find extra power? I'm sure there's a small handful of people who really do THINK they can tune their own car and make more power than an "off the shelf tune", and then there's reality.

If you're an ethanol junkie or plan on doing something outside of the box then BM3 is your ticket.

If you're a pump gas person who likes the idea of switching between pre-engineered MAPs for different power levels, then HEX Tuning has everything covered.

VF Engineering just started including their HEX MAP Changing Cable in the price of their software so the price argument for price just went out the window. You can get HEX now for as little as $895 plus installation. Remove and replace the ECU yourself and then installation is covered as well since they don't charge for unlocking.

So $595 + $100 unlocking + $20 cable = $895? Nice math.

Oh, what about the DCT flash cost? Should we just throw a mulligan on that one?

End-users don't need to be the ones making changes to their maps. Go to a reputable tuner, strap your car to a dyno, and have as many custom tunes done as your wallet can handle. It's not about making "more" power, it's about extracting the best power for your given setup, fuel, altitude, purpose etc.

The fact is that it's a no-cost option for BM3 to allow tune customization. Whether or not you use that option, it's still a no-cost addition to the BM3 suite. And you're still starting out cheaper out of the gates. So...?

[VF-Engineering]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

I don't think anyone is (or should be) disputing that VF offers a great tune.

Tuning is the easy part to be honest.
There is no magic in it.

The issue is comparing VF's OTS tunes against BM3's OTS tunes - it's pointless. That's like comparing a slice of an apple to an entire apple.

If you still insist on doing the comparison, people should ask what tuning methodology they prefer - high vs. low boost, high vs. low ignition advance, AFR tuning etc.

We wholeheartedly disagree!

Proper tuning is a holistic process where the quality of final product is very much
dependent on all of the factors involved.

It begins with intimate knowledge of the ECU. It requires a solid understanding
of the engine itself, and all of the key components that will be working harder than
anticipated by the OEM manufacturer. And the end result will still only be as good
as the amount of time, effort, knowledge, and experience that goes into your
development process.

There's obviously an element of "tuning philosophy" that comes into play with any
tuning product, whether it be a piggy-back or different levels of flash tuning, but
the idea that custom tuning at a high level can be accomplished on the street with
limited access to various tables is misleading at best, and irresponsible at worst.

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by VF-Engineering

We wholeheartedly disagree!

Proper tuning is a holistic process where the quality of final product is very much
dependent on all of the factors involved.

It begins with intimate knowledge of the ECU. It requires a solid understanding
of the engine itself, and all of the key components that will be working harder than
anticipated by the OEM manufacturer. And the end result will still only be as good
as the amount of time, effort, knowledge, and experience that goes into your
development process.

There's obviously an element of "tuning philosophy" that comes into play with any
tuning product, whether it be a piggy-back or different levels of flash tuning, but
the idea that custom tuning at a high level can be accomplished on the street with
limited access to various tables is misleading at best, and irresponsible at worst.

Fair enough. I'll restate: Tuning is a science, after all, with maybe a touch of 'je ne sais quois' tossed in as a result of the things you mentioned.

Again, odd statements are being thrown around: when did custom tuning "on the street" with "limited access" to tables come up? That's not what we're discussing here. We're discussing the forthcoming ability for BM3 to allow custom tuning, be it on the street or on a dyno, be it with a tuner (reputable or not) or by the end-user. Given that PTF aren't amateurs, we can safely assume their custom tuning platform will include access to more than a few tables.

I'll restate that your OTS tunes seem to perform very well and consistently, and that people running your tune will likely be quite happy. From a pure price, customization, and available options perspective, I personally believe there is a gap.

[Mjaspreet]

So what kind of whp/wtq figures will be I looking at with a map comparable to the hex stage 2 on 91 fuel.

[1FastS4]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

So $595 + $100 unlocking + $20 cable = $895? Nice math.

Oh, what about the DCT flash cost? Should we just throw a mulligan on that one?

End-users don't need to be the ones making changes to their maps. Go to a reputable tuner, strap your car to a dyno, and have as many custom tunes done as your wallet can handle. It's not about making "more" power, it's about extracting the best power for your given setup, fuel, altitude, purpose etc.

The fact is that it's a no-cost option for BM3 to allow tune customization. Whether or not you use that option, it's still a no-cost addition to the BM3 suite. And you're still starting out cheaper out of the gates. So...?

I never said they were equal in price. I was referring to whoever it was that said BM3 is 1/2 the price of HEX.

I can't comment on the DCT tune because as far as I know BM3 hasn't even said if they are re-calibrating the DCT on own or if they are just using the same ZCP or GTS DCT settings that the coding guys are all offering for sale.

For all anyone knows they could just be resetting the TCU adaptations when they flash the car so that it adapts with the new power levels.

And I also agree that end-users shouldn't be the ones making changes to their software.
So here's where the tables get turned really quickly - If you're buying BM3 so you can go to a dyno shop for a custom tune, BM3 just became the MORE expensive option because a reputable tuner doesn't work for free.

One that same note, a reputable BMW tuner wouldn't even need BM3 to tune these cars. If they have experience with BMW tuning they surely would have their own tools to test and tune with. If they don't, you should probably be looking for a different tuner. Ive seen plenty of Mitsu and Subi tuners ruin plenty of BMW's.

[1FastS4]

Originally Posted by Mjaspreet

So what kind of whp/wtq figures will be I looking at with a map comparable to the hex stage 2 on 91 fuel.

Every dyno is different, but from everything HEX has posted you should be knocking on the door of the "500 Horsepower Club" and should be well into 520-530 Torque range. Uncorrected DynoJet Numbers to boot!

This dude has a pretty solid review of going from Stage 1 to Stage 2; http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1270271