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      11-28-2021, 09:32 AM   #13707
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Looks like it will be happening. They are giving us 70k for the C63S, paid 78k 15 months ago and throwing in a couple of services. About as good as I could do in this market and this is the most excited I’ve ever seen my wife about a vehicle. She loves the thing.

Slowly grow my relationship with this dealer for future allocations. Gotta start somewhere.
Just back from oversteering my way to Starbucks in the merc. Can't imagine why you don't want to take that up to Warroad mid-winter.
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      11-28-2021, 01:40 PM   #13708
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Its definitely a weird exterior upgrade they did on the new bmws , sometimes I wonder who designs them lol
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      11-28-2021, 02:01 PM   #13709
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
What are you getting?
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Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
Cayenne S looks like he mentioned it a few pages back
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Originally Posted by Arcades View Post
You should be able to get allocation but it would heavily depend on what trim you get.

Last time I checked, Porsche is directing more of their chips into SUVs because... well duh $$. A few weeks ago, I was at DTLA Porsche and their garage was literally packed full of Macans and Cayennes. Obviously far fewer 911, Cayman and Boxster. It was during that week when they got more deliveries and it was mainly the SUVs that were there. Funny enough, among all of them I saw like... 1 or 2 SUV in Red because... well its Red.

I would at least ask, and see if my prediction is correct. Regardless of how people see Porsche from an enthusiast standpoint, they still need to make the mainstream SUVs as that is most of Porsche's actual earnings. I would personally think, Macan, Macan S, Cayenne and Cayenne S wouldn't be too hard to get. The higher trims like GTS (Macan, Cayenne and Cayenne Coupe) would be way more difficult I think.

That is, admittingly an educated guess. I wouldn't be surprised if Porsche prioritize the Macans first though.
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
You're probably right - back in August when i was calling around all over the country, the Cayenne S and up was fairly non-existent and that includes with an intro from Nick Murray to his dealership ... had I waited I likely could've gotten an MSRP+ allocation, but just wasn't willing to pay MSRP or more for it, and there was no guarantee on timeline (which I also wasn't willing to deal with).

It probably comes down to how greedy the dealers are these days ...
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Originally Posted by No Boost View Post
Done and done. Winter weather vehicle capabilities are maxed out with this beast. You can rest easy I have fond memories of my '04 WRX fitted with Blizzaks, bitch could go anywhere. You have even more ground clearance though.
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Just back from oversteering my way to Starbucks in the merc. Can't imagine why you don't want to take that up to Warroad mid-winter.
Here it is if curious, we are picking it up on Tuesday.

https://minneapolis.porschedealer.co...ab2ay0lda28827

Wife wants an SUV for other things as well but she definitely got tired of driving the F-150 if it was even a little slick out. She (and I) aren’t fans of parking that thing at Target or elsewhere all the time as it is a bit of a beast in tighter parking lots. Also (probably obvious) SUVs are definitely a bit more convenient for running a bunch of errands/picking stuff up in than a full size supercrew pickup. If I gotta have/drive one this isn’t bad obviously. I’m going to seriously miss the C63S though, it is a very fun/comfortable DD. I won’t miss driving it home in a blizzard like I did last year a couple of times. That got a little white knuckle at times but doable.

GrussGott, we were headed to Motorwerks next to check out an X5. But after she drove the Cayenne she didn’t want to anymore. We both are still a bit bitter how things ended with our longtime dealer (BMW of Minnetonka) and BMWNA over the whole M4 CS MPHAS thing. With their current advertising etc it feels like they really don’t care about long term customers at the dealership or corporate level. So I guess we’ll go this route and see how it goes.

Audi Q7 was another one we were going to look at seriously as well.
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      11-28-2021, 02:19 PM   #13710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
What are you getting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
Cayenne S looks like he mentioned it a few pages back
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcades View Post
You should be able to get allocation but it would heavily depend on what trim you get.

Last time I checked, Porsche is directing more of their chips into SUVs because... well duh $$. A few weeks ago, I was at DTLA Porsche and their garage was literally packed full of Macans and Cayennes. Obviously far fewer 911, Cayman and Boxster. It was during that week when they got more deliveries and it was mainly the SUVs that were there. Funny enough, among all of them I saw like... 1 or 2 SUV in Red because... well its Red.

I would at least ask, and see if my prediction is correct. Regardless of how people see Porsche from an enthusiast standpoint, they still need to make the mainstream SUVs as that is most of Porsche's actual earnings. I would personally think, Macan, Macan S, Cayenne and Cayenne S wouldn't be too hard to get. The higher trims like GTS (Macan, Cayenne and Cayenne Coupe) would be way more difficult I think.

That is, admittingly an educated guess. I wouldn't be surprised if Porsche prioritize the Macans first though.
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
You're probably right - back in August when i was calling around all over the country, the Cayenne S and up was fairly non-existent and that includes with an intro from Nick Murray to his dealership ... had I waited I likely could've gotten an MSRP+ allocation, but just wasn't willing to pay MSRP or more for it, and there was no guarantee on timeline (which I also wasn't willing to deal with).

It probably comes down to how greedy the dealers are these days ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Boost View Post
Done and done. Winter weather vehicle capabilities are maxed out with this beast. You can rest easy I have fond memories of my '04 WRX fitted with Blizzaks, bitch could go anywhere. You have even more ground clearance though.
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Just back from oversteering my way to Starbucks in the merc. Can't imagine why you don't want to take that up to Warroad mid-winter.
Here it is if curious, we are picking it up on Tuesday.

https://minneapolis.porschedealer.co...ab2ay0lda28827

Wife wants an SUV for other things as well but she definitely got tired of driving the F-150 if it was even a little slick out. She (and I) aren't fans of parking that thing at Target or elsewhere all the time as it is a bit of a beast in tighter parking lots. Also (probably obvious) SUVs are definitely a bit more convenient for running a bunch of errands/picking stuff up in than a full size supercrew pickup. If I gotta have/drive one this isn't bad obviously. I'm going to seriously miss the C63S though, it is a very fun/comfortable DD. I won't miss driving it home in a blizzard like I did last year a couple of times. That got a little white knuckle at times but doable.

GrussGott, we were headed to Motorwerks next to check out an X5. But after she drove the Cayenne she didn't want to anymore. We both are still a bit bitter how things ended with our longtime dealer (BMW of Minnetonka) and BMWNA over the whole M4 CS MPHAS thing. With their current advertising etc it feels like they really don't care about long term customers at the dealership or corporate level. So I guess we'll go this route and see how it goes.

Audi Q7 was another one we were going to look at seriously as well.
That's a really clean Cayenne.
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      11-28-2021, 05:12 PM   #13711
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On the topic of Porsches, here's the best one ever, but it's actually not a Porsche.

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      11-28-2021, 05:48 PM   #13712
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Just back from oversteering my way to Starbucks in the merc. Can't imagine why you don't want to take that up to Warroad mid-winter.
I've made that winter run many times in my young days with rwd vehicles on mixed winter tires basically you go to junkyard every few weeks and see if there were any new totals with winter tires that would fit. Not ideal motoring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post

GrussGott, we were headed to Motorwerks next to check out an X5. But after she drove the Cayenne she didn’t want to anymore. We both are still a bit bitter how things ended with our longtime dealer (BMW of Minnetonka) and BMWNA
I don't blame you! The Cayenne looks great ... Two thoughts fwiw:

(1.) There are only 2 dealers I've ever worked with (and I've worked with a lot) who've provided a superior level of service:
My latest one, Peter Pan & Motorwerks. The honorable mentions would be Carousel Audi & Pacific BMW, but those were more due to sales person than the dealership. Motorwerks did me a huge solid once after BMW David completely fucked the pooch on, well, everything. Motorwerks took over and handled everything for $0 even though I didn't buy that car from them! And it wasn't just one person, it was the whole team - everyone I spoke with was awesome and when I showed up with a friend to pick up my car they gave us a tour, gave us the keys to try anything we wanted, and gave us invites to a few events. That was 2011. I bought them all gifts afterwards - it was that kind of experience. I'm sure it's probably new people now, but great experiences (or lack thereof) last!

(2.) Over & over again BMWNA has delivered for me.
I don't know if it's luck, or having worked with Maria quite a few times, or what it is, but I've had a lot of twists & turns with my BMW vehicles and BMWNA has always delivered. Things like my IM cars, sure, but more importantly getting compensation for missing features, fixing delivery issues, getting me this X5M with 100% of the stuff I ordered, and 4 awesome EDs including 1 semi-private one they just told me I was getting out of the blue for being a good customer! - in short, they've always exceeded my expectations even though I constantly expect them to fuck me.

BMWNA even sent me some headphones completely out of the blue:



All of that said, I would completely agree that BMWNA's latest industry level moves don't scream "best customer experience in the industry" - yet somehow none of that has ever managed to hit me specifically ... many of the BMWNA's dealerships have let me down, and quite a few sales people (did mention how much BMW David sucks? If not, BMW David is like a dumber version of Michael Scott from The Office combined with the follow-through of George Costanza)

I want to not like BMWNA broadly, yet I can't deny they've always delivered for me, even in tough times like now: I got -4% off -$3250 PenFed w/ no options deletes including all the stuff previously deleted from other X5s back in 2020, and they delivered ahead of schedule. When I've called, they've answered & delivered ... it's impossible for me to fault them.

Porsche NA otoh, didn't return my calls or emails, and their dealerships were ... well, dealerships (though I give Nick Murray's dealership props for being extremely polite about assfucking you). Most of them wanted money in exchange for nothing - no allocation, no guaranteed allocation, no specific timeline, etc. I did get the sense from a few that it's just how it is and my gut says they would've delivered, but that ain't how I roll, and BMWNA takes my calls sooo....
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      11-28-2021, 06:45 PM   #13713
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
I've made that winter run many times in my young days with rwd vehicles on mixed winter tires basically you go to junkyard every few weeks and see if there were any new totals with winter tires that would fit. Not ideal motoring.



I don't blame you! The Cayenne looks great ... Two thoughts fwiw:

(1.) There are only 2 dealers I've ever worked with (and I've worked with a lot) who've provided a superior level of service:
My latest one, Peter Pan & Motorwerks. The honorable mentions would be Carousel Audi & Pacific BMW, but those were more due to sales person than the dealership. Motorwerks did me a huge solid once after BMW David completely fucked the pooch on, well, everything. Motorwerks took over and handled everything for $0 even though I didn't buy that car from them! And it wasn't just one person, it was the whole team - everyone I spoke with was awesome and when I showed up with a friend to pick up my car they gave us a tour, gave us the keys to try anything we wanted, and gave us invites to a few events. That was 2011. I bought them all gifts afterwards - it was that kind of experience. I'm sure it's probably new people now, but great experiences (or lack thereof) last!

(2.) Over & over again BMWNA has delivered for me.
I don't know if it's luck, or having worked with Maria quite a few times, or what it is, but I've had a lot of twists & turns with my BMW vehicles and BMWNA has always delivered. Things like my IM cars, sure, but more importantly getting compensation for missing features, fixing delivery issues, getting me this X5M with 100% of the stuff I ordered, and 4 awesome EDs including 1 semi-private one they just told me I was getting out of the blue for being a good customer! - in short, they've always exceeded my expectations even though I constantly expect them to fuck me.

BMWNA even sent me some headphones completely out of the blue:



All of that said, I would completely agree that BMWNA's latest industry level moves don't scream "best customer experience in the industry" - yet somehow none of that has ever managed to hit me specifically ... many of the BMWNA's dealerships have let me down, and quite a few sales people (did mention how much BMW David sucks? If not, BMW David is like a dumber version of Michael Scott from The Office combined with the follow-through of George Costanza)

I want to not like BMWNA broadly, yet I can't deny they've always delivered for me, even in tough times like now: I got -4% off -$3250 PenFed w/ no options deletes including all the stuff previously deleted from other X5s back in 2020, and they delivered ahead of schedule. When I've called, they've answered & delivered ... it's impossible for me to fault them.

Porsche NA otoh, didn't return my calls or emails, and their dealerships were ... well, dealerships (though I give Nick Murray's dealership props for being extremely polite about assfucking you). Most of them wanted money in exchange for nothing - no allocation, no guaranteed allocation, no specific timeline, etc. I did get the sense from a few that it's just how it is and my gut says they would've delivered, but that ain't how I roll, and BMWNA takes my calls sooo....
I get why you’d stay with them, sounds like it’s been fun. I haven’t had nearly the same experience unfortunately. And I may have bought more BMWs than you I think. Ms are close.

I’m under no illusions with Porsche, I’ve already had a weird interaction with the service department. That’s the thing with even higher end car companies/dealers. Usually sales transactions etc are fine, it’s after the sale that most have no idea how to handle problems properly unfortunately. That was my BMW experience, for the most part loved my SA and others at ‘Tonka but their service department was lacking to say the least. Motorwerks sales is fine/not great, their service is awesome though. You know my BMWNA interaction.
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      11-28-2021, 07:27 PM   #13714
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post

I may have bought more BMWs than you I think. Ms are close.


for the most part loved my SA and others at ‘Tonka
I bet you have! Back in 99 when we bought our first German car, an Audi A6, we met this sales guy at Carousel who we followed around for ~7 years. Awesome dude, would toss me the keys to anything I wanted whenever I showed up and would tell me to just be back in an hour That's how we ended up with the new Allroad back in 2002 or whenever they came out - I'd go over there every few weeks and just drive stuff ... the B6 RS4 when it first came out was a revelation!

ANYway, eventually he moved or something, can't remember, but he gave me a piece of advice/wisdom on our final deal with him, and the gist was this:
"ignore your relationship with the salesperson, and even the dealer, focus on the distributor / importer; call up someone in corporate customer relations, intro yourself, ask questions, etc and do that every year or so and for sure before any purchase. Let them know about your experience and ask for their advice."
Does that even apply anymore? dunno, though, BMWNA has always taken/returned my calls and no other brand has (well, Audi has to be fair, but I haven't kept up with them because I haven't gotten an Audi in 10 years)
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      11-28-2021, 09:59 PM   #13715
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I got some new EV experience today. Went and drove a Model S Plaid and a Mercedes EQS. Liked the EQS a lot, but hated the Model S for one big reason, I'm sure you can guess why (*hint* there's no need to reinvent the wheel )

I finally got to try out the stupid yoke, and can confirm, it is indeed stupid. Like seriously stupid. I accidently honked at a group of pedestrians all because when I turned the wheel my hand accidently hit one of the touch-capacitive buttons (which are far more sensitive than any other car I've used), also of course being that this was a used car, whoever owned the car before set the horn had set it to a honk and then a long wet fart which had then scared my sensitive ears because there was no music in the car and the fart was loud and unexpected in the speakers. And taking this car through corners just feels weird, forget about parallel parking, even backing the car up out of a space feels weird since there is no top of the wheel and I'm old fashioned and still turn my head to the back windshield, it requires too much focus/thought.

What pisses me off more than anything about the yoke though is that I do not understand how Tesla got this passed regulations? Seriously, Mercedes can't get a damn car in the states to pass regulations without adding stupid bumperettes to surround the rear plates all for an old and outdated regulation, but Tesla can cut the entire top half off of a steering wheel? Makes no sense to me.

As for the rest of the car, its overall nice enough, $130k nice? Ehhh not so sure about that. The speed is fast as f*** and intoxicating, but I can easily see this getting into the hands of people with very little skill and too much stupidity, and if they need to counteract steering with the yoke that'll likely be a mess too. Handling is typical Model S, numb, uninspiring and not very impressive, speed is the car's one trick pony. New interior is a big improvement, but the lack of stalks and and a gear selector is incredibly perplexing, Musk is forcing everyone to his vision of the future (which sucks in my opinion), but some things didn't need replacing. Brakes could be better, I can definitely see the argument towards them being underpowered as hitting them at triple digits didn't inspire much confidence, guess that's why all the sudden they're offering ceramics for $20k! Back seat is awful, rear bench sits too low so knees are in your chest with no leg support, and build quality is typical Tesla, interior trim pieces aren't properly put together, paint is awful, and body panels are misaligned.

Pretty much left mostly annoyed as the car has so much potential but the yoke kills a lot of it, not to mention getting in the EQS afterwards didn't help the Tesla as that car is much quieter and comfortable (not to mention properly screwed together) all while being able to achieve 400 miles of range. But at the end of the day its gonna sell a s*** ton, as no one cares about handling or luxury anymore, its all about 0-60 times now.

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      11-28-2021, 10:24 PM   #13716
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geezus bro, learn how high performance SUVs work!
No polo or ballet until after the 1200 mile break-in service I'm pretty sure the engineers know more about this than you do.



I hate to say it, but for just my wife & I we were considering the X7 and looked at the Alpina just because the X5 is a bit small for all the stuff we bring on our trips. I can't even imagine hockey ... a former MN boss had 3 kids all in hockey and his suburban was routinely packed to rafters!

Ultimately we decided we could either take out the spare and/or get a cargo box as the X7 is a monster to try to drive around each destination, especially getting in & out of ramps, etc ... also there's no hiding an X7 or especially the Alpina; the X5M is fairly inconspicuous even in the color we have as it fades to black in the shade, and just looks more/less like any other SUV



Yes, yes, the hood is slightly popped open - now you can't unnotice that amiright??
Nice, the X5M is awesome! I saw one in blue around here the other day and it just looked great!
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      11-28-2021, 11:58 PM   #13717
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For comparison sake....

fvck yea!
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      11-29-2021, 02:31 AM   #13718
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But at the end of the day its gonna sell a s*** ton, as no one cares about handling or luxury anymore, its all about 0-60 times now.
great review, though I disagree with your final assessment because it's a functional assessment rather than an emotional one ...

When iPhones came out, a lot of people - like me - thought they were silly toys compared to real smart phones like Blackberrys, Danger, et al and doomed to failure; after all, blackberry's keyboard kicked ass and didn't need reinventing! Who the fuck is going to tolerate typing an email on a touchscreen?? That's just fucking stupid amiright? The iPhone was (and is) a functional disaster that feels more like a child's toy than a serious device for serious work.

So what happened? Why did a device so functionally inferior steamroll everyone?

Well, a few reasons but the biggest one IMO was young women. They LOVED the iPhone - very chic, very tech, very cool! And if you had one you inherited some of that tech cool. The blackberry was dorky & corporate. If you were single & wanted to have sex, best to get an iPhone.

Well, I'd say a Tesla is the 2022 iPhone.

(and, so far, BMW is tryin REAL hard to be blackberry ... Ford = Nokia, Porsche will fight Benz for Samsung, GM = Ericsson, Toyota = Motorola )
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      11-29-2021, 03:15 AM   #13719
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
But at the end of the day its gonna sell a s*** ton, as no one cares about handling or luxury anymore, its all about 0-60 times now.
great review, though I disagree with your final assessment because it's a functional assessment rather than an emotional one ...

When iPhones came out, a lot of people - like me - thought they were silly toys compared to real smart phones like Blackberrys, Danger, et al and doomed to failure; after all, blackberry's keyboard kicked ass and didn't need reinventing! Who the fuck is going to tolerate typing an email on a touchscreen?? That's just fucking stupid amiright? The iPhone was (and is) a functional disaster that feels more like a child's toy than a serious device for serious work.

So what happened? Why did a device so functionally inferior steamroll everyone?

Well, a few reasons but the biggest one IMO was young women. They LOVED the iPhone - very chic, very tech, very cool! And if you had one you inherited some of that tech cool. The blackberry was dorky & corporate. If you were single & wanted to have sex, best to get an iPhone.

Well, I'd say a Tesla is the 2022 iPhone.

(and, so far, BMW is tryin REAL hard to be blackberry ... Ford = Nokia, Porsche will fight Benz for Samsung, GM = Ericsson, Toyota = Motorola )
This is an interesting take. Completely anecdotal, but in the early days of the iPhone (I was an early adopter since the first Gen) it was mostly male high school seniors, college kids, and young adult tech nerds that all seemed to have it while young women loved the sidekick phones (obsessed is more accurate). Coincidentally, around this time and later going into the iPhone 3G it was still mostly men that had them, but I was getting access to more high level execs, and while they loved their blackberry, they thought my iPhone was interesting and "hip" and, well, older folks like to be "hip". Are they going to upgrade every year? No, but they started wanting one all the same to feel like they were in with modern trends. Hell, my folks who were blackberry lifers switched over for almost this exact reason.

Sooner rather than later, having a blackberry felt like you were holding onto the fax machine and couldn't let go and move on to email (even though technically that analogy doesn't quite make sense).

At the end of the day though, I think the fault really lies with the short lived lifespan of a competent physical small keyboard. It really wasn't until 2007 that blackberry finally started getting the keyboard right (even though the UI was shit), and even then the average exec or middle management person weren't super great at typing on that small keyboard. So folks needing smart phones only had a good 2-3 year run with a competent physical keyboard. Since a better UI and hip alternative was available (and adopted in mass by younger folks) in the iPhone shortly thereafter, people's brains got rewired very quickly into thinking that touchscreen keyboard is significantly better and useable than a clunky physical keyboard, which now by contrast feels completely unusable when you try to use one.

What makes me think this is the case is modern computer keyboards. Every attempt at a touch screen or hapticless version of one is horrendously unusable, right? Or is it that our brains for the better part of nearly 40 years have gotten used to the physical haptic feedback of a large physical keyboard that using an alternative similar to a touchscreen one seems foreign and, well, wrong?

Our brains have learned to type on small screen on a keyboard on a touchscreen over a longer span than the small physical keyboard had (at least a good one). While the physical desktop large keyboard had years on any touchscreen one.

Sometimes the best technical/efficient solution loses out to the one that permeates society and becomes normalized.
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      11-29-2021, 06:38 AM   #13720
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stein_325i yeah the Plaids brakes are a joke. They fade super quick so you really need to get better ones for everyone's safety.
At a stupid price point too.

They're simply boring to drive. Fast but very boring.

I'm also at a loss for how they got that wheel to pass regulations. It's downright stupid.
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      11-29-2021, 08:33 AM   #13721
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What pisses me off more than anything about the yoke though is that I do not understand how Tesla got this passed regulations? Seriously, Mercedes can't get a damn car in the states to pass regulations without adding stupid bumperettes to surround the rear plates all for an old and outdated regulation, but Tesla can cut the entire top half off of a steering wheel? Makes no sense to me.
Consumer reports wasn't kind to it either https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...s-a1034204120/ Par for the course for regulatory. Billions on trivial stuff, overlook the missing steering wheel.
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      11-29-2021, 10:10 AM   #13722
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But at the end of the day its gonna sell a s*** ton, as no one cares about handling or luxury anymore, its all about 0-60 times now.
great review, though I disagree with your final assessment because it's a functional assessment rather than an emotional one ...

When iPhones came out, a lot of people - like me - thought they were silly toys compared to real smart phones like Blackberrys, Danger, et al and doomed to failure; after all, blackberry's keyboard kicked ass and didn't need reinventing! Who the fuck is going to tolerate typing an email on a touchscreen?? That's just fucking stupid amiright? The iPhone was (and is) a functional disaster that feels more like a child's toy than a serious device for serious work.

So what happened? Why did a device so functionally inferior steamroll everyone?

Well, a few reasons but the biggest one IMO was young women. They LOVED the iPhone - very chic, very tech, very cool! And if you had one you inherited some of that tech cool. The blackberry was dorky & corporate. If you were single & wanted to have sex, best to get an iPhone.

Well, I'd say a Tesla is the 2022 iPhone.

(and, so far, BMW is tryin REAL hard to be blackberry ... Ford = Nokia, Porsche will fight Benz for Samsung, GM = Ericsson, Toyota = Motorola )
Oh I know they're the Apple of the car world, I don't deny that, and I don't hate Tesla, nor the Plaid, I just hate the Yoke, which I don't see a single benefit for, nor is it revolutionary in any positive way like how the Model 3 and Model S have revolutionized the industry, but rather a stupid attention seeking gimmick. This unfortunately will sell and then influence (sadly) other Teslas and vehicles on the road. I'm just saying I think people will buy this car despite its massive shortcomings because of the speed. I don't think I'm wrong either, Tesla was smart, they know that people love straight line cars and they've now created one that does it the best. I just wish they'd actually listen to negative feedback and offer options like a normal round wheel.
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      11-29-2021, 10:17 AM   #13723
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
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Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
What pisses me off more than anything about the yoke though is that I do not understand how Tesla got this passed regulations? Seriously, Mercedes can't get a damn car in the states to pass regulations without adding stupid bumperettes to surround the rear plates all for an old and outdated regulation, but Tesla can cut the entire top half off of a steering wheel? Makes no sense to me.
Consumer reports wasn't kind to it either https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...s-a1034204120/ Par for the course for regulatory. Billions on trivial stuff, overlook the missing steering wheel.
I think what's even worse about the Yoke is that Tesla made it. This just means constantly cult members defending it and ignoring those with an opinion. If any normal car maker had done this the reaction and response would have been much different.

There are seriously no benefits to it, the only one Elon Musk has cited is that it allows the instrument cluster to have full visibility, which is quite ironic given he argued that an instrument cluster was not important for a Model 3 or Y.
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      11-29-2021, 12:17 PM   #13724
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Also our ///M Savior has arrived.


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      11-29-2021, 12:33 PM   #13725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
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Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
What pisses me off more than anything about the yoke though is that I do not understand how Tesla got this passed regulations? Seriously, Mercedes can't get a damn car in the states to pass regulations without adding stupid bumperettes to surround the rear plates all for an old and outdated regulation, but Tesla can cut the entire top half off of a steering wheel? Makes no sense to me.
Consumer reports wasn't kind to it either https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...s-a1034204120/ Par for the course for regulatory. Billions on trivial stuff, overlook the missing steering wheel.
I think what's even worse about the Yoke is that Tesla made it. This just means constantly cult members defending it and ignoring those with an opinion. If any normal car maker had done this the reaction and response would have been much different.

There are seriously no benefits to it, the only one Elon Musk has cited is that it allows the instrument cluster to have full visibility, which is quite ironic given he argued that an instrument cluster was not important for a Model 3 or Y.
I don't care how good the cars might be, I'd never give them money because I simply refuse to associate with Lord Elon "Fraudulent Liar" Musk and his autistic cultists.

Sucks that by buying a Tesla, you involuntarily give off the impression you've also bought into the whole cult & schtick. No automotive corporation is saint, but there's no other car company where the CEO is so 'out there.'
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      11-29-2021, 04:23 PM   #13726
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it was mostly male tech nerds that all seemed to have it while young women loved the sidekick phones (obsessed is more accurate).
Sounds like the exact same cohort that covets Rolex stainless steel watches

I mean, I bet you don't have a pair yoga pants, but I bet they catch your eye If you asked me who's responsible for Lululemon, I'd say "high school seniors, college kids, and young adult men" is probably right ... they're not the customers, but they're who the customers are buying for.

A big part of it was the multi-colored iBooks.
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      11-29-2021, 04:35 PM   #13727
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there's no other car company where the CEO is so 'out there.'
Eh, coulda said the same thing about Apple or Amazon or Facebook ... I worked for a Silicon Graphics reseller in the mid-90s and that SGI fucker was like a cross between J Peterman & Colonel Kurtz ... some real End Days shit; like it wouldn't have surprised me to be at company party and have seen a dude in a top hat fucking a beheaded pig as a novelty.

Elon's a fucking teddy bear compared to the late 90s.

I've never talked to him, but some colleagues have worked for him and 100% of them (a.) no longer do, and (b.) thought they had nothing left to learn until they worked for him. I've yet to hear from anyone's who's actually worked with him that didn't give him a high score.

I'll take a weirdo top-down leader any day over wishy-washy leadership like 99% of corporations have. Take a look at VW right now - Diess is *barely* in control ... top-down directives are likely non-existent and fiefdoms are rampant. It'd be awful to work there.
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      11-29-2021, 07:22 PM   #13728
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Eh, coulda said the same thing about Apple or Amazon or Facebook ... I worked for a Silicon Graphics reseller in the mid-90s and that SGI fucker was like a cross between J Peterman & Colonel Kurtz ... some real End Days shit; like it wouldn't have surprised me to be at company party and have seen a dude in a top hat fucking a beheaded pig as a novelty.

Elon's a fucking teddy bear compared to the late 90s.

I've never talked to him, but some colleagues have worked for him and 100% of them (a.) no longer do, and (b.) thought they had nothing left to learn until they worked for him. I've yet to hear from anyone's who's actually worked with him that didn't give him a high score.

I'll take a weirdo top-down leader any day over wishy-washy leadership like 99% of corporations have. Take a look at VW right now - Diess is *barely* in control ... top-down directives are likely non-existent and fiefdoms are rampant. It'd be awful to work there.
At least Diess doesn't say weird out-of-context shit on twitter like a teenage girl that other people take as gospel. But he's obsessed with Musk, so you're right, he's not any better. I survived both CEO Mueller and Diess, but was (happily) hierarchically and geographically quite far from them.
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