My engine is blown because of a tiny object, another oil cooler under carriage issue

[spham]

Moderator Note: Before commenting on the situation, please also be aware of these three past incidents which help put things in context. This is not the first time this type of failure has occurred.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1082067
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1094424
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1173090

F82 owners (and possibly other M cars), December 30th was a terrible and sad day for me. I blew my engine.......

I was driving on the freeway to a meeting when all of a sudden a "Low Oil Pressure Warning: Stop carefully" warning came on. I found it weird because I had an oil change at like 1.6k miles (my car was at 9k at the time) so I thought it was just missing oil or something since the car was relatively new. We also didn't feel or hear anything. Shortly after, I got a "Drivetrain malfunction" warning from the car that also said to "drive moderately". The car seem to drive fine as all this was happening.

I decided to finally exit the freeway and pull over to a nearby gas station. As we were exiting we heard some clunking noise from the engine. We parked and checked under the car and saw some smoke. Shortly after (1-3 minutes) we saw oil leaking from the front of the car. We called BMW's emergency roadside assistance which sent a tow truck to get the car to the nearest BMW center.

The tow truck came by 20-30 minutes later and to get the car on the truck (the truck had a tow bed) we had to reverse from our spot and push it onto the truck. This meant I had to turn on the car to put the car in reverse as well as in neutral. When we turned it on, the engine sounded terrible as it was throbbing and thrashing and eventually died a couple of times. We didn't know how else to keep it in neutral and reverse so we kept the engine on.

We dropped it off at a nearby BMW center and because it was the 30th, they said they couldn't check it out until Monday, Jan 2. It was funny because when he checked the stats of my car on the computer, he said "oh you are due for an oil change". I'm pretty thankful for the rep they assigned me because they hooked it up with a loaner car which saved the weekend. I really appreciate him for that. But an agonizing wait none the less for the diagnostic.

Come Monday, I dropped off the loaner and asked what happened. The reason was freaking crazy. They found a hole in the oil cooler under the car similar looking to this (not an actual F82 under carriage oil cooler). Not just any hole, a relatively small hole where ONE of the veins was punctured. When they told me this, I was like "a small object did this to my car?". They were like "yeah most likely a small heavy one". They said maybe it was a heavy small rock on the freeway that bounced. They couldn't find the exact object.

I was like wtf rocks are always on the road has this happened to other cars? They answered yes, yes it has. They told me, my engine was wrecked and would have to replace it with a remanufactured one as well as other parts which would cost around 40k. I then asked if this was going to be fronted by BMW in which they responded with no because I drove an extra 9 miles after the "Low oil pressure" warning came on. Saying the engine probably would have been fine if I didn't drive for so long.

At the time, I was a little flabbergasted that a small object can wreck such an amazing piece of engineering so I couldn't really recount the event of the incident. I told them, ok I will make a claim through insurance. But as I kept thinking throughout the day, it friggin sucks because the warning only came up once and it makes the same noise as low tire pressure (which I get a lot because my tires seemed to be having leak issues ever since I got it) and the speed warning one.

What do you guys think? Is it really my fault and should BMW cover this?

[Update 1]
I got a photo of the hole.... wait til you guys see this

[dr.mba]

Shit! This sucks ass. Don't know what else to say.. thanks for sharing and hoping this gets resolved for you quickly.

M

[dkhm3]

I have a dealership that I know and the SA there are good friends of mine, I have gotten things done under warranty that "bent the rules"- although nothing of this caliber.

I wonder if the dealership has some say in this and if you had a SA that you or your friends knew that could assist you with this.

It is sadly technically not bmw's fault although the design location is poorly protected and they should cover most of it with goodwill.

[996ttelise]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I have a dealership that I know and the SA there are good friends of mine, I have gotten things done under warranty that "bent the rules"- although nothing of this caliber.

I wonder if the dealership has some say in this and if you had a SA that you or your friends knew that could assist you with this.

It is sadly technically not bmw's fault although the design location is poorly protected and they should cover most of it with goodwill.

That there was not some goodwill offer made or the dealership does not appear to be trying to go to bat for him speaks volumes. I have had even shitty little, broke arse Lotus and Porsche step up for me in the past on catastrophic transmission and engine failures for heavily tracked car with over revs.

What does owner's manual say regarding that warning? Find a safe place to stop or stop immediately? I would get a lawyer and make a lot of noise. Sometimes the squeaky wheels gets the grease.

I am with you on design and I am very surprised there was no offer of any sort. I should be dumping my M3 tomorrow if all goes well, but this would make me concerned if I were to be a long term owner. Is there a pattern of denials for engine or drive train issues based on over revs or alleged abuse, I.e., does BMW typically look for a way out for catastrophic failures or are they pretty decent about stepping up?

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by 996ttelise

That there was not some goodwill offer made or the dealership does not appear to be trying to go to bat for him speaks volumes. I have had even shitty little, broke arse Lotus and Porsche step up for me in the past on catastrophic transmission and engine failures for heavily tracked car with over revs.

What does owner's manual say regarding that warning? Find a safe place to stop or stop immediately? I would get a lawyer and make a lot of noise. Sometimes the squeaky wheels gets the grease.

I am with you on design and I am very surprised there was no offer of any sort. I should be dumping my M3 tomorrow if all goes well, but this would make me concerned if I were to be a long term owner. Is there a pattern of denials for engine or drive train issues based on over revs or alleged abuse, I.e., does BMW typically look for a way out for catastrophic failures or are they pretty decent about stepping up?

sorry man, porsche is well known to have issues too.

don't you remember the 918 spyder that caught fire at a gas station? Those exhaust tips are on top of the car, which, well, is not a great place to begin with.

or the 991 gt3's that engines caught fire and had to be recalled?

or worse yet the entire 996 911 generation which had epidemic issues and needed entire engine rebuilds that Porsche did not warranty?

Here are some tidbits from an article:

" In nearly all cases, the “fix” is the same: to purchase a complete rebuild from Porsche, at your expense. Figure on $15,000 or more for the “subsidized” engine."

"During those years, Porsche worked with its dealers to deny warranty claims, place blame on customers, withhold knowledge of fixes, and generally burn every last bit of goodwill they had built up over years"

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...e-911-996-3-4/




http://blog.caranddriver.com/porsche...-engine-fires/

Pot? Meet Kettle.

[Dranter]

Unfortunately this is the sad reality of the platform.

This is merely another car from a growing list of engine replacements happening on the f80/2/3


1. Cooler is at retarded location
2. No easy way to put car into neutral

I keep getting a deja vu when i read posts like these and time and time again its absolutely the same story.

Car accident or damage to intercooler -> driven onto flatbed or reversed etc -> engine damage

Moral of such stories -> if you even suspect some sort of damage to the oil cooler DO NOT attempt to do anything other than wait for BMW to come pick you up otherwise you and your wallet will cry. Supposedly they come and put the car into neutral with a software solution although no one on this forum seems familliar with this mythical neutral - putting BMW creature.

[996ttelise]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

sorry man, porsche is well known to have issues too.

don't you remember the 918 spyder that caught fire at a gas station? Those exhaust tips are on top of the car, which, well, is not a great place to begin with.

or the 991 gt3's that engines caught fire and had to be recalled?

or worse yet the entire 996 911 generation which had epidemic issues and needed entire engine rebuilds that Porsche did not warranty?

Here are some tidbits from an article:

" In nearly all cases, the “fix” is the same: to purchase a complete rebuild from Porsche, at your expense. Figure on $15,000 or more for the “subsidized” engine."

"During those years, Porsche worked with its dealers to deny warranty claims, place blame on customers, withhold knowledge of fixes, and generally burn every last bit of goodwill they had built up over years"

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...e-911-996-3-4/

Attachment 1550959

Attachment 1550960
http://blog.caranddriver.com/porsche...-engine-fires/

Pot? Meet Kettle.

Like a dog getting distracted by squirrel when the word Porsche was mentioned. My point is simply that Porsche has stepped up for me over the years and covered or good willed questionably covered repairs.

An IMS/RMS failure during warranty would have been covered for the M96/97 engines in 996s and 9971s. A bearing issue 10 years after date of entering service probably ain't going to get covered.

The issue here is whether BMW will cover any or all of the repairs for a catastrophic failure that took place during the warranty period.

If the failure was caused by a rock impact, could it be covered under an insurance policy? . . . Just trying to help OP come up with a solution.

[Dranter]

Originally Posted by 996ttelise

Like a dog getting distracted by squirrel when the word Porsche was mentioned. My point is simply that Porsche has stepped up for me over the years and covered or good willed questionably covered repairs.

An IMS/RMS failure during warranty would have been covered for the M96/97 engines in 996s and 9971s. A bearing issue 10 years after date of entering service probably ain't going to get covered.

The issue here is whether BMW will cover any or all of the repairs for a catastrophic failure that took place during the warranty period.

If the failure was caused by a rock impact, could it be covered under an insurance policy? . . . Just trying to help OP come up with a solution.

BMW will probably argue against him because of the triggered warning light and I believe that makes sense to everybody.


Another question is whether these cars and the fact that the number of people going through an engine replacement ordeal is getting higher and is concerning. I believe it is because ive seen a number of posts on this forum, OP has mentioned his dealer experiencing this. You start wondering about how many of these go unnoticed and unposted and you do the math that the number isnt low.

Its also not whether BMW will honor warranty or not. Its whether BMW will admit that this is an issue and "design-flaw" on their part. Otherwise unfortunately in all likelihood OP will suffer.

A HUGE question is who came to tow. If its BMW, blame can be shifted to them because they are supposed to have tool / software solution of putting the car into neutral and not having to start it in order to tow it.



I had crashed my car and was in a ditch with cooler damage. I had to make a choice:

a) have the tow truck pull it out causing further body damage with potential drive train one

b) start engine, reverse a bit and leave into neutral and hopefully all is good


While being aware that an engine + no oil is a no go i thaught 5 secs should be fine. Also I believe b) was the right choice to make on the spot due to the specifics of where the car ended up in the crash.


Now believe me, I spent like an hour in the cold on my iphone googling and googling and reading manuals and everything on how to put the car into neutral. I opened the trim around the gear selector and poked and poked and nothing.


In the end I went with b) and was only 2 weeks later that the story concluded with the realization that the car needed the following fixed:
body damage
front end cooler damage
engine replacement
transmission replacement because it had seized for some reason ( go figure)


All of this could have been avoided if BMW left the old e90/92 design of putting car into neutral via a hole next to gear selector. ( only engine damage, rest was me 100%)

[outatime e46]

I just googled some pictures of the F80 underbody. It's all covered, so how would a rock make its way into that oil cooler precisely to cause a puncture?

I'm not doubting the OP's situation, I'm just wondering what the odds are of that happening.

[The Choosey begger]

Next time you have a low oil pressure warning you need to stop immediately on the shoulder and shut the engine off, regardless of the "drive moderately" message.
No driving for a little while and then to a nearby gas station.
It's serious, nothing to do with the car being fairly new, it's most likely you've lost a significant amount of oil to trigger a low oil pressure warning.

[The Choosey begger]

Originally Posted by outatime e46

I just googled some pictures of the F80 underbody. It's all covered, so how would a rock make its way into that oil cooler precisely to cause a puncture?

I'm not doubting the OP's situation, I'm just wondering what the odds are of that happening.

Oil coolers do leak too although rare but it happens. His car got an oil cooler that developed a leak or git punctured by a sharp object. Not his fault...but he shouldn't have driven the car with the low oil pressure warning.

[///M///]

Sorry to hear that man. See if your insurance can help with it. 40k is insane.

That said, time and again I read posts by people about having driven the car even after a warning came up. I can understand if there is no shoulder on the freeway and one needs to get to a safe place but too many times folks just keep driving the car waiting till further damage happens. The fact that the car gave a low oil pressure earning indicates that the car is running out of oil. That should be a huge red flag ad under no circumstances should the engine be run as it'll starve of oil and destroy it. I don't know the exact situation you were in but you should not have fired up the car again for the tow truck. How do you think they tow cars that don't fire up?

Good luck with the repair and insurance but I hope others seeing this thread learn something from this.

[Fake News 2017]

Originally Posted by outatime e46

I just googled some pictures of the F80 underbody. It's all covered, so how would a rock make its way into that oil cooler precisely to cause a puncture?

I'm not doubting the OP's situation, I'm just wondering what the odds are of that happening.

Sorry to the OP, but this?

[BhamDavid]

One very important thing to remember when you are at the mercy of the dealer: act respectfully. I'm not saying the OP didn't, but if you are expecting the dealer to treat you well, don't go into a rant about the car having a bad design, other dealers treat you better, BMW sucks, etc.

These guys have a lot of leeway in their decisions and if you develop an adversarial relationship with them, they're not likely to help you out.

[smithf80]

I feel for you, but I also don't get why you wouldn't have immediately pulled over for a low oil pressure warning.

[CanAutM3]

IMHO, the warranty denial has mostly to do with the fact that the damage is a consequence of an foreign object hitting the car and not a manufacturing defect.

I wish the OP a prompt and fair resolution to this unfortunate ordeal.

[Dranter]

Originally Posted by outatime e46

I just googled some pictures of the F80 underbody. It's all covered, so how would a rock make its way into that oil cooler precisely to cause a puncture?

I'm not doubting the OP's situation, I'm just wondering what the odds are of that happening.

Oil cooler faces the road so its super susceptible to damage.

There are some companies offering a cooler guard, which from pictures seems like a sheet of perforated metal but I guess if it does the job, it does the job.

Its entirely plausible its a rock. Its also entirely plausible it was a stick, metal debris etc.

[JoeFromPA]

In order for this to happen, an object had to penetrate some fairly thick under body cladding and then the owner had to continue driving for a good bit of time with low oil in the car despite a warning that something was wrong.

I'm not blaming the Op here (BMW is) but this is a terrible situation where a chain of events happened. It should remind the rest of us that when a sudden unexplained warning pops up, pull over and stop the car and evaluate.

Joe

P.s. 9 miles is not that much. I've been on highways where there are almost no places to pull over for miles and miles due to construction.

P.p.s. This sounds like an insurance claim to me.

[Lmonus]

tell BMW to take the car and shuvv it up their asses. I would of Flipped out if this happened to me and i was told "You drove an extra 9 Miles" Blah blah.

Fists would of definitely been exchanged and i would be in jail, but it would be totally worth it to knock the shit out of the so called "Good rep" you had.

Holy fuck this post pissed me off.

[The Choosey begger]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

IMHO, the warranty denial has mostly to do with the fact that the damage is a consequence of an foreign object hitting the car and not a manufacturing defect.

I wish the OP a prompt and fair resolution to this unfortunate ordeal.

A tiny hole in one of the oil cooler's veins could be as a result of a defect also. A foreign object hitting the oil cooler is usually pretty obvious.

[smithf80]

Originally Posted by Lmonus

tell BMW to take the car and shuvv it up their asses. I would of Flipped out if this happened to me and i was told "You drove an extra 9 Miles" Blah blah.

Fists would of definitely been exchanged and i would be in jail, but it would be totally worth it to knock the shit out of the so called "Good rep" you had.

Holy fuck this post pissed me off.

So are you from Brooklyn or Queens?

[mkoesel]

I've added links to similar incidents that have happened in the past to other forum members.

While admittedly based only on the OP's description so far (no pics), this may the most minor incident yet that has resulted in such a failure.