My engine is blown because of a tiny object, another oil cooler under carriage issue

[reginoc]

Originally Posted by dzvero

Sorry but its dumb not to stop and check what is going on. All your fault and you have to pay the price. Used engine is cheaper option

lol

while this may be a true statement, i can certainly think of a situation or instance where it would be fairly unsafe to stop the car's motion immediately.

i just got my F82 and am frantically trying to figure out if there's a way to shield the oil cooler better, chicken wire ghetto style or not. i didnt lease my car and i wanted to drive it for a good while .. this thread actually has me spooked a bit on keeping it.

[996ttelise]

Originally Posted by reginoc

lol

while this may be a true statement, i can certainly think of a situation or instance where it would be fairly unsafe to stop the car's motion immediately.

i just got my F82 and am frantically trying to figure out if there's a way to shield the oil cooler better, chicken wire ghetto style or not. i didnt lease my car and i wanted to drive it for a good while .. this thread actually has me spooked a bit on keeping it.

Yeah, this is f'ed up and casting blame on the OP is an easy way to deflect what I perceive as an absurd issue created by BMW. I defend large companies against class actions ranging from product liability, medical device, defective drug to collective action and Rule 23 wage and hours suits so I have seen it all.

How easy is it to run over something on the highway or interstate or have something kicked up into your grill area. Its one thing to scuff up the underside, but completely another to blow the entire engine. Never heard of such bs on any high end performance car including the Italians.

The whole not being able to put the thing in neutral for towing without starting it for a few seconds and detonating the engine is a complete joke in and of itself, but when compounded by the fact that such actions can cost you $40k for a mid level level car that does not cost much more than $40k is hilarious.

BMW should prove the catastrophic event was not caused by their tow truck operator's instructions to start the car after all the oil drained out as opposed to damage occurring prior to pulling over and all the oil leaking out.

Bad design by BMW for both the oil cooler and transmission. BMW also needs to ensure that their Roadside Assistance approved tow companies know what they are doing and do not start or instruct others to start potential oil starved engines.

Setting aside a fan boy mentality, this should be a BMW issue if for no other reason to force BMW to take a few easy steps to ensure this does not happen to more unsuspecting owners and tow companies. Going after a few a tow companies turning these things on will also help pressure BMW to correct problems through 3rd party indemnity mechanisms.

[996ttelise]

Originally Posted by dzvero

Sorry but its dumb not to stop and check what is going on. All your fault and you have to pay the price. Used engine is cheaper option

Even if he did stop immediately, the oil drained out before the tow truck operator, sent by BMW Roadside Assistance, told him to turn on the oil starved engine to put in in neutral so it could be towed so the engine would have been killed either way.

Can you unequivocally say the catastrophic damage did not occur only after the oil completely drained out and the the car was later turned on to put it into neutral?

There are examples linked where turning the car on to put car in neutral for towing was sufficient in and of itself to kill the engine. My guess is there was still oil circulating when the guy pulled over if there was any left on the ground where he pulled over and stopped.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by 996ttelise

Yeah, this is f'ed up and casting blame on the OP is an easy way to deflect what I perceive as an absurd issue created by BMW. I defend large companies against class actions ranging from product liability, medical device, defective drug to collective action and Rule 23 wage and hours suits so I have seen it all.

How easy is it to run over something on the highway or interstate or have something kicked up into your grill area. Its one thing to scuff up the underside, but completely another to blow the entire engine. Never heard of such bs on any high end performance car including the Italians.

The whole not being able to put the thing in neutral for towing without starting it for a few seconds and detonating the engine is a complete joke in and of itself, but when compounded by the fact that such actions can cost you $40k for a mid level level car that does not cost much more than $40k is hilarious.

BMW should prove the catastrophic event was not caused by their tow truck operator's instructions to start the car after all the oil drained out as opposed to damage occurring prior to pulling over and all the oil leaking out.

Bad design by BMW for both the oil cooler and transmission. BMW also needs to ensure that their Roadside Assistance approved tow companies know what they are doing and do not start or instruct others to start potential oil starved engines.

Setting aside a fan boy mentality, this should be a BMW issue if for no other reason to force BMW to take a few easy steps to ensure this does not happen to more unsuspecting owners and tow companies. Going after a few a tow companies turning these things on will also help pressure BMW to correct problems through 3rd party indemnity mechanisms.

70k cars are mid level cars? Man you must live in a bubble.

[logicalunit]

Originally Posted by dmk08

70k cars are mid level cars? Man you must live in a bubble.

Apart from that, he hits the nail on the head.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Railgun

Man oh man. No. Just, no.

I've witnessed this first hand and will tell you that the situation in this thread was exasperated by the simple fact that the OP did NOT stop when the car told him to stop. I don't even know how this is an argument. No, you don't need to stop on a dime, immediately right then and there. Common damn sense people.

I mean...seriously...how the hell...



Low oil pressure...low tire pressure. To think that it doesn't just give an idiot light and SPELLS IT OUT for you.


And then....



Traffic is NEVER bad enough to NOT be able to pull over. This too is something I've done myself. You're moving at the same relative speed as everyone else. If it was a matter of faster traffic to your RIGHT...then you shouldn't have been in that lane to begin with eh?



Your forum name couldn't be more relevant than now.

That being said, yes, OP sucks. That IND brace will NOT fix the issue. It doesn't matter if you're driving at 70 or 7, it can still happen. In the case I mentioned above, it happened at probably 2 MPH. You think you didn't hear anything then...try doing it at a crawl. It was, call it, 2 minutes or so after wards the car was still running. Guess what, it was fine. It was caught before any warnings in this particular case.

Next time, when a car tells you to pull over, PULL OVER!

I thought it said "Drive Moderately" not "Pull Over Now"?

[a1gio2]

This is a design flaw and brand loyal fans don't seem to want to accept it. I love my car, but this is unacceptable. It's not reasonable that an oil cooler be the Achilles heel of this car and that we should buy aftermarket products to protect it. This isn't a cold air intake system!
I know I would not personally accept this as my tough luck and pray that my insurance covers it. If insurance does cover it, who is responsible for the increase in premiums, if they don't drop you?
Someone should, and will take legal action and set precedent. Until then, BMW will not do anything to rectify the issue(s) including who they contract their roadside assistance service to and a potential solution to the problem.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Railgun

Well, he said it said "Low Oil Pressure Warning: Stop carefully" so...

But if that's not what it actually said, that's a different story.

Yeah all my statements in this thread assumed the moderate message. If it actually said "Low Oil Pull Over now" its the OP fault or driving 7 miles after that. I would still try and make my insurance company cover it though.. trust me they wouldnt think twice about screwing you over.

[996ttelise]

Originally Posted by Railgun

Man oh man. No. Just, no.

I've witnessed this first hand and will tell you that the situation in this thread was exasperated by the simple fact that the OP did NOT stop when the car told him to stop. I don't even know how this is an argument. No, you don't need to stop on a dime, immediately right then and there. Common damn sense people.

He has a picture on page 1 that shows a very, very minor leak and a tiny hole or malformation in the oil cooler.

Do you know how much oil had leaked out or was still circulating in his engine before he stopped?

Would the oil pressure light get triggered simply by virtue of having a hole in the system causing a decrease in pressure before any substantial amount of oil even leaked out?

Do you know how much leaked out after he stopped?

Do you know how much was present when the tow truck operator told him to turn it on?

Do you know how much damage had been done to the engine prior to the tow truck operator telling him to turn it on several times and even drive it in reverse?


. . . and saying the OP sucks says more about you than the OP. I feel for the guy as he surely did not want this to happen, but I more irritated by the fact that BMW builds a car that cannot be put into reverse without running and then send a tow truck operator out that tells the guy to turn on his car when a puddle of oil is underneath it.

[babraham]

Originally Posted by Railgun

Well, he said it said "Low Oil Pressure Warning: Stop carefully" so...

But if that's not what it actually said, that's a different story.

The first warning said Low Oil Pressure: Stop Carefully. The second warning said something about driving moderately.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Railgun

Traffic is NEVER bad enough to NOT be able to pull over. This too is something I've done myself. You're moving at the same relative speed as everyone else.

You know very well that statement is utter nonsense. I've seen disabled vehicles cause traffic to backup for miles dues to a whole range of circumstances such as closed shoulders due to construction or impassible lanes due to weather conditions. No one should be forced to voluntarily shut down on a freeway and incur the risks associated with that.

You are essentially claiming that you'd be all too happy to stop your car anytime, anywhere, no matter what. I call BS. Complete BS. And I don't see any reason to discuss it further.

If it was a matter of faster traffic to your RIGHT...then you shouldn't have been in that lane to begin with eh?

Give me a break. Traffic whips by any one of us on the right in heavy traffic situations where the the left (that would be "right" in your case, presumably) lanes become congested sooner than the right ("left" in your case, perhaps) lanes. This can easily happen due to traffic exiting the highway, for example, and indeed does everyday on any stretch of busy highway during rush hour.

Next time, when a car tells you to pull over, PULL OVER!

The car doesn't tell you to pull over. The car tells you there is an issue. It's up to you as the driver to determine when it is best to pull over. Stopping the car immediately in its tracks and letting it come to rest where ever fate may have it is a dangerous course of action and could actually cause traffic incidents with other motorists.

Could the OP have prevented this with more timely decision making? Maybe. But quite possibly not, given the situation with the car needing to be turned on after sitting with oil leaking out in order to be towed, and in turn due to the ignorance of the tow truck driver about that situation.

[infamousdiz]

I would have been lived if they told me becuase i turned the engine on its on me, then code the engine off in a failure like that, once its of,f its off till bmw puts is back on. This is BMW's problem. In any case all BMW N. America and get someone on the horn and let your insurance know so that the big pockets can battle it out

[996ttelise]

Originally Posted by Railgun

This is the point...he kept driving AFTER it told him not to. The questions are irrelevant now.

However, regarding the second question, I can say that in the case I mentioned, no. I would equate low quantity to low pressure as the pressure side is most likely measured post pump, so a hole in the cooler wouldn't affect that reading.

Lol, perhaps in your mind they are, but I can tell you in a court of law those questions perhaps are not irrelevant.

The issue is whether the catastrophic damage occurred before or after the tow truck operator told him to start the car, drive it in reverse and start it up again several times after the oil had leaked out.

I am sure you could get experts on both sides of this issue and no one will never know for sure . . . so it could be possible that OP will get stuck with a bill for damage his actions did not cause.

I also think the warning needs to be stop immediately as I might even perceive that warning as just a low oil light. it also does not sound like the engine was oil starved for a considerable distance so difficult to say when damage occurred: after 1 mile, 3 miles, 6 miles or when no oil and driven after tow truck arrived.

I have also been in a situation where my wife was driving, hit a pot hole on the interstate, blew out a tire and I told her to keep going until an exit as I did not want us and a four-year old sitting on the side of a busy interstate. At the time, I was more concerned about getting wife and small child to an exit than damage to rim or caused by tire flapping around. This is just a bad situation and that cooler either needs more protection or a different location.

[reginoc]

dont drive miles before stop - got it !

we should all be focusing on how to protect our oil coolers now ! 😭

[Wills2]

Isn't this an insurance job? A friend once had his engine replaced after he'd damaged the sump and the engine lunched itself, he just claimed on his insurance for it.

I understand why BMW doesn't want to pay out for accidental damage to the car isn't that what insurance is for?

[logicalunit]

Why does the car allow you to start the engine without oil (or running low)? Again something BMW could have prevented?

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by reginoc

dont drive miles before stop - got it !

we should all be focusing on how to protect our oil coolers now ! 😭

Naa. The M5/M6 has a similiar design. Its not something new to this car. As others have stated it happens.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Railgun

You've seen them AFTER the fact. You can't possibly know why or how the car ended up there.

That's irrelevant. You missed the point entirely.

Your statement was "Traffic is NEVER bad enough to NOT be able to pull over". The fact that, in the examples I gave, these drivers' disabled vehicles cause major traffic backups - regardless of exactly how and why they ended up coming to rest where they did - is exactly the proof you need to refute your statement.

And in no way did I suggest stop in the middle of the road in whatever lane you're in. That's stupid. Don't put words in my mouth.

You absolutely did just that. You said "NEVER". In fact, there are numerous scenarios where it is absolutely not reasonable to pull the car over. I gave a couple examples, but more exist.

Yep...because the driver knows better than the car to ignore it.

The car is not sentient, the driver is. That's why the car doesn't just shut itself off and come to a stop when there is an issue.

[E60orBust]

Originally Posted by logicalunit

Why does the car allow you to start the engine without oil (or running low)? Again something BMW could have prevented?

It does. OP stated that they had to re-fire the engine multiple times to get it on the flat-bed because the engine kept cutting off, most likely because of the lack of running oil.

It would seem to me that BMW needs to push a software update to their DCT cars so something like holding the shifter left for X number of seconds while in ACC mode will engage neutral without having to turn the engine on.

Just like hitting the start/stop button doesn't do anything if you are above a certain speed, but holding it while above a certain speed will kill the engine for emergency purposes.

[Maxis]

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Railgun

That's the effect, not the cause. The car stopped in the middle of the road caused the traffic to go to hell. The state of traffic before that occured will always be in a state to get over. IF traffic is in a state that it's not possible, eg rush hour traffic, THEN, traffic is moving slowly enough to PUSH THE CAR OVER. In either case, traffic is already borked, so the end result is nothing actually happens to traffic, you stop the car where it is and you and a good Samaritan push the car over.

No sir. As I already specified very, very clearly, if there is no shoulder due to construction or if weather conditions make some lanes impassable, then there is literally nowhere for the car to go other than in places where it will impede traffic, potentially cutting off one or more lanes entirely. Even if traffic were flowing fine just previously, such a situation will then cause major congestion. And if only one lane were available, it could furthermore lead to complete stoppage. Neither scenario is safe for the driver nor for other motorists.

If traffic is flowing, unless your brakes magically applied themselves, your car is also still moving and attempts to get over can be made.

Attempts sometimes fail. Specifically, they fail when there is not adequate space to accommodate an immobile vehicle. But other possibilities also do exist as well.

The fact of the matter is, it is absolutely possible to cause further harm to already damaged equipment merely by following a reasonable process of stopping or attempting to stop it in a safe manner. You seem to desperately want to debate that there is not even a single extenuating circumstance - never has been, never will be, never could be ("NEVER" in all caps even, you so proudly shouted) - where this is the case. But you are wrong. We're going to end this discussion now.

[ptper]

I wonder if BMW corporate reads these forums? Anyways, I can understand why they wouldn't warranty it. I mean it's not their fault the oil cooler hit debris (or whatever it was) in the road. What they could be blamed for was bad engineering (at least to non-engineer, lol) for sticking the oil cooler under the car where it is vulnerable. I'm hoping this gets sorted amicably either by BMW or insurance somehow. After reading this, it makes me nervous about lowering the car and driving on less than perfect road surfaces. I'm kidding of course.....sorta.