05-14-2022, 07:05 AM | #177 | |
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The 911 has the advantage of being built as a sports car from the ground up, as opposed to the more humble foundations of the M4, so it offers more purity in terms of driving and connection. The handling is super precise, responses to inputs almost seem telepathic. While the M4 was still quite amenable to throttle steer, the 911 is on another level in that respect where just a slight lift promptly tucks the nose in. So one can position the car much more easily. The rear axle steer surely contributes to that nimbleness. The AWD on the turbo is also superbly tuned and mainly feels like a RWD car, where you can get nice power on rotation on corner exit. You only feel the AWD when the rear steps out a little too far, stay on the throttle and the front axle will pull you out of the slide. The M4cs was still a very precise track machine, particularly when compared to its direct competitors like the the C63 or RS5, but when compared to the 911 it needed a bit more muscle and anticipation to hustle on track. I’ve always liked the alcantara steering wheel in my M4cs and the feedback it provided, but driving my buddies M4cs on track after having driven my turbo, the steering wheel seemed fat, heavy and stuck in molasses in contrast. The M4cs was obviously more practical with full rear seats and a much larger cargo area that allowed me to carry my track tires. With the 911 I need to compromise with dual use street/track tires and the PSC2 (I use the 991.2 GT2/3RS spec) do a very decent job. Now that I’ve got the setup properly dialled in in terms of pressures and alignment, I am getting 8+ track days out if the tires plus the daily drive. Which is twice what I got out of the track only NT01 on the M4cs. The PSC2 is not as grippy as the NT01 (~1.5sec/lap slower than the NT01 on my M4cs), but offers a very decent compromise. Despite the less sticky tires, I am still 3 sec/lap faster in the turbo compared to the M4cs, and I am convinced there is still plenty of improvement room left as I get more familiar with the platform (going from 20 years of front engine RWD to rear engine AWD does require some level of adaptation). Acceleration on the turbo is also on another level, which is expected from 120 additional hp for about the same weight. Launch control is total bonkers, with repeatable back-to-back 2.4~2.5sec 0-60mph stints. And the brakes are just superb. The completely stock brakes (even the pads) perform flawlessly on track with zero signs of fade. For the daily use, the 911 still offers very decent practicality. On a few occasions, I took the whole family (wife and two kids 8 and 11) on road trips. We made the 2~3 hour drive to the cottage in relative comfort with 3 carry-0n sized suitcases (two in the frunk and one on the shelf behind the rear seats), fishing gear and a dozen bottles of wine. Quite impressive. My Sport-PASM equipped 911turbo rides quite more firmly than my M4cs, but the damping in the 911 is much better controlled, even though I found the CS damping to be top tier. For winter driving, the turbo beats the M4cs hands down with the AWD being a key ally, but also the active aero that retracts the front splitter for improved ground clearance. In contrast, the CF front splitter was barely an inch off the ground on my lowered cs, but it was still a blast to drive in the white stuff. For sure the turbo is 2x the initial investment over the M4cs. However, I’ve been pleasantly surprised with the running costs so far. Track days consumables are practically on par with the M4cs despite being significantly faster. Depreciation will be the big question mark which I’ll find out about in three years when I sell the 911, but I suspect it might not be that bad. All in all, quite pleased with 911 experience so far and I do not regret having made the jump PS: sorry for the long winded post, got up early as I couldn’t sleep and just typed away waiting for the family to wake up
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Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver
Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black Last edited by CanAutM3; 05-15-2022 at 09:25 PM.. |
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05-14-2022, 07:44 AM | #178 | ||
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05-14-2022, 11:03 AM | #179 | |
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Interestingly, the turbo feels both more raw and more refined at the same time than the M4cs. You sit much lower in the 911 making you feel more connected with the road. In the most aggressive Sport+ setting, it is more raw in driving dynamics, much more brutal in ever way. The suspension is quite stiff, the tires noisy (particularly the PSC2j and the engine ferocious. Dial it down to the Normal setting and it become more refined. The suspension, while still quite stiff, dampens all the sharp edges of the road. The interior remains boomy from road noise, but the chassis is super stiff with no rattles, squeaks or suspension noises to be heard. You just feel surrounded in a higher level of luxury than in the M4cs.
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05-15-2022, 11:08 AM | #181 | |
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05-15-2022, 06:47 PM | #182 |
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Can’t recall what year they switched the CF driveshaft from carbon fiber to steel, but the CS got the CF variant.
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05-17-2022, 09:24 PM | #183 |
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So been daily driving for a few days with Cup2s on and my immediate impression is that the CS really deserves them. Steering feedback is bumped up a notch and the car feels even more lively through the steering wheel, and so far I can immediately tell that there is a ton of grip there that I think they're perfectly livable with a better than expected ride quality. I guess the caveat here is I'm on G80 Cup2s (275F/285R) but I imagine the older 180tw still feel pretty similar.
I'm pretty excited to run a couple back roads this weekend and probably another track day next month to really get some usage out of them.
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05-19-2022, 04:04 AM | #184 | ||
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05-19-2022, 05:06 AM | #185 |
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We've had discussions about this issue in the M3 CS for sale thread. Yes, this is a huge problem for all those pricing algorithms. For the past two years dealers and individuals have been listing many ZCP competition pkg cars as a CS, so kbb, cargurus, autotrader, etc pricing models are completely worthless for a true CS. For whatever reason, this issue is not nearly as prevalent for the M4 CS.
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05-19-2022, 06:40 AM | #186 |
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I got a couple of trade-in quotes for my M3CS from two different BMW dealerships, and both gave me Comp value (~63k). Both times I told the used car manager to talk to new car sales rep in order for them to figure out what exactly a CS was; one of them even sent me a spreadsheet with local “CS” inventory in order to justify their shit offer, and nearly all the cars on that list were Comps listed as CS.
Needless to say, selling to an enthusiast who knows what’s up is the best way to get full value on a CS. Wish they’d be this ignorant about M2 Comp vs. CS pricing 🙄 |
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05-19-2022, 07:07 AM | #187 | |
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05-19-2022, 08:50 AM | #188 | |
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05-20-2022, 10:11 AM | #189 | |
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Our M4cs didn't show up until 2019, which by then we got the non-CF driveshaft. My 2020 does not have it.
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05-20-2022, 12:00 PM | #190 |
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Are you sure about that? According to the BMW ETK, all F8Xcs have the CF driveshaft. It was also explicitly mentioned in the press releases.
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05-21-2022, 06:17 AM | #191 | |
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OPF = steel drive shaft. Simple as
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05-21-2022, 07:51 AM | #192 |
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I don’t believe that is the case in North America, as none of the F8X cars got OPF here but were still fitted with the steel two piece driveshaft at some point.
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05-21-2022, 09:36 AM | #193 | |
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They axed the base and Comp F80 M3 for European markets earlier than the rest of the world, in May 2018, because of the aforementioned emissions regs.
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05-21-2022, 05:23 PM | #194 | ||
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05-22-2022, 01:20 PM | #195 | |
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05-22-2022, 03:18 PM | #196 | |
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When typing the VIN for my old car (July 2018 build), the PN of the CF driveshaft comes out. Looking up late build (Nov-2019) M4cs also calls for the CF driveshaft on the ETK, yet when looking up a non-CS models for the same build date (Nov-2019) it shows the steel 2-piece driveshaft. Look it up for yourself.
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Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver
Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black Last edited by CanAutM3; 05-22-2022 at 03:25 PM.. |
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05-22-2022, 03:20 PM | #197 |
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What r u lazy? Prove it. Do it on your own damn car. lmao
Last edited by 1FZFE; 05-22-2022 at 03:27 PM.. |
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05-23-2022, 12:19 PM | #198 |
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Guys, let's get those CS's out on track where they are meant to be!
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