Anyone else get banned from the G8X section for making fun of its looks?

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Tesla=subsidized profit

If it were not for the government incentives, Tesla would not be as profitable…

So it's an automobile company like every other one then?

(factual note: US Taxpayers are ~USD$10B in the hole just from the 2008 US auto industry bailouts alone ... and don't German taxpayers own 20% of Porsche?)

[Multimodal]

Harassing some vintage BMWs.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Tesla=subsidized profit

If it were not for the government incentives, Tesla would not be as profitable…

None of Telsa vehicles currently qualify for EV credits, they have not since 2019. Even without the $7500 credit, they continue to outsell all other EV's. GM also benefited from the same EV credit program, maxed out their gov incentives. Ford is doing the same now with the Mach E and soon to market F150 Lightning.

Originally Posted by GrussGott

So it's an automobile company like every other one then?

Exactly. Telsa got some favorable gov loans, but those have been paid in full with interest almost a decade early. Ford got a Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) Loan just like Tesla, $5.9bill to be exact. Hasn't paid a cent back. Tesla isn't the only car company that has receive gov subsidies.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Tesla=subsidized profit

If it were not for the government incentives, Tesla would not be as profitable…

To be fair, Tesla isn't the only car manufacturer that benefits from subsidies. Government subsidies have been handed out for decades before Tesla even existed. And it's not just domestic manufacturers either. Toyota, Nissan etc we're lured by subsidies to bring manufacturing to the US.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

You might've had us, had you not posted pics! ... but the pig snout and protruding anus gave it away.

Nope, still looks like a swine ejecting its intestines.

Pics don't do the G8X justice. I don't even see the anus, I actually never did even back when I didn't like the G8X. The snout went from being obnoxious to something distinctive. Eye of the beholder. It's just unmistakable as anything but a BMW, which I think is the goal.

[swagon]

Originally Posted by jmg

It's just unmistakable as anything but a BMW, which I think is the goal.

Older BMWs managed to look unmistakably BMW without having to wear ugly kidneys or overly complicated bumpers.

In fact, the newest cars have lost some of the design features found on BMWs of the past five decades so, yes, your car looks less like a BMW bar the kidneys that everybody now associates with this generation 4 Series.

[swagon]

Originally Posted by minn19

Thought this thread was pretty interesting discussion. Talking about the GT4RS (and other Porsches) in general mainly going into the hands of collectors etc. Shame most of those cars will be just some rich guys art for F U money.

https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-...anium-car.html

Wasn't the TRZ06 guy from that Rennlist thread also on here, complaining about his F80's suspension? MRC on his Camero must've really spoilt this guy.

But it is true that most German manufacturers do not spend any time testing around Eastern Europe, which is really not that far from Germany, because otherwise, their cars would all ride better. Also would help if customers didn't want DUB-sized rims.

[Darth One]

Originally Posted by jmg

The snout went from being obnoxious to something distinctive. Eye of the beholder. It's just unmistakable as anything but a BMW, which I think is the goal.

You’re right, and it definitely achieves the ‘distinctive’ part. Funny how this copycat industry tries to make their cars distinctive in the exact same way. I think at this point a non-enthusiast needs a card on their dash to identify the car swooping in on their rear view mirror.

“Honey, are the double coffins BMW? Or Lexus? Oh Lexus is the predator maw? Gotcha. Yeah, and the Superman badge is Genesis and the woman’s pubic area is Alfa, i remember.”

This is just like last decade when every manufacturer tried to distinguish themselves by the shape of their angel eyes/DRL’s.

[Tecnniqe]

Originally Posted by Darth One

You’re right, and it definitely achieves the ‘distinctive’ part. Funny how this copycat industry tries to make their cars distinctive in the exact same way. I think at this point a non-enthusiast needs a card on their dash to identify the car swooping in on their rear view mirror.

“Honey, are the double coffins BMW? Or Lexus? Oh Lexus is the predator maw? Gotcha. Yeah, and the Superman badge is Genesis and the woman’s pubic area is Alfa, i remember.”

This is just like last decade when every manufacturer tried to distinguish themselves by the shape of their angel eyes/DRL’s.

It is pretty Alfa to drive a pubic area.

A Quadrifoglio seems more and more reasonable to get

To me the iX have more presence than the G8X cars with its huge proportions.
But it's not a good type of presence.

Some people like it but to me all I can think of is "Why why why" every time I see one, but it is what it is at the end of the day

That being said, in the EV market a fully speced Polestar seems a genuine bargain for an amazing car.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by swagon

Wasn't the TRZ06 guy from that Rennlist thread also on here, complaining about his F80's suspension? MRC on his Camero must've really spoilt this guy.

But it is true that most German manufacturers do not spend any time testing around Eastern Europe, which is really not that far from Germany, because otherwise, their cars would all ride better. Also would help if customers didn't want DUB-sized rims.

Yup and I know him from the Camaro6 gen forum to. I told him a couple of times I didn’t think he’d like it. He obviously didn’t listen to me and now has sunk about 15k into coil overs etc.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by jmg

Pics don't do the G8X justice. I don't even see the anus, I actually never did even back when I didn't like the G8X. The snout went from being obnoxious to something distinctive. Eye of the beholder. It's just unmistakable as anything but a BMW, which I think is the goal.

I dunno, I really disagree here. From the side it looks like a Mustang, rear Lexus and the hood Dodge. Only think “unmistakably BMW” is the huge nostrils IMO.

Other manufacturers have done it much better. You know a Porsche when you see one, Camaro/Vette or Charger/Challenger etc all are unmistakably Chev/Dodge. Just to name a few easy ones. The F80 and E series were much more easily spotted as BMWs and still are IMO.

[kyrix1st]

I honestly thought one of these was a Lexus until I got close to look at the rear emblem, it's really that bad. I'm not going to delve further into how the side profile has so many disconnected lines that go nowhere.

G87 M2 is in a similar mess, but without a dumb looking front fascia; Its MT variant is definitely in my shortlist. Big shame it's not made in Germany though.

Originally Posted by jmg

Pics don't do the G8X justice. I don't even see the anus, I actually never did even back when I didn't like the G8X. The snout went from being obnoxious to something distinctive. Eye of the beholder. It's just unmistakable as anything but a BMW, which I think is the goal.

[NSX2M4]

To say this car is beautiful is a friggin crime… Just a total abortion to car design and taste.
https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1908381

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by jmg

Pics don't do the G8X justice. I don't even see the anus, I actually never did even back when I didn't like the G8X. The snout went from being obnoxious to something distinctive. Eye of the beholder. It's just unmistakable as anything but a BMW, which I think is the goal.

I agree. I find that it looks better in person than in photos. To be fair, I felt this way about the prior ///M cars too. I hated 90% of the pics of my F8X.

[swagon]

Sounds to me it was rather the photographer's problem.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by NSX2M4

To say this car is beautiful is a friggin crime… Just a total abortion to car design and taste.
https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1908381

I personally don't find that color combo attractive, but obviously the new owner does. Looks like he has a loving family that's going to enjoy their new toy!

[Darth One]

Lemme say something nice about BMW and point out that twilight purple is an absolutely fantastic color

[minn19]

Originally Posted by jmg

I personally don't find that color combo attractive, but obviously the new owner does. Looks like he has a loving family that's going to enjoy their new toy!

And that’s all that matters!

Originally Posted by Darth One

Lemme say something nice about BMW and point out that twilight purple is an absolutely fantastic color

That is a really good color. I’ll add on. Stopped by my local BMW dealer and talked to our old CA and new car sales manager to say hi/catch up. I was checking out the 8s and they are really good looking cars. The whatever red GrussGott has on his M is stunning. They had an 840 and a M8 in that color (both GCs) and were awesome inside and out. If my wife didn’t love her Cayenne she could see getting the 840 GC. The regular 3 series cars are still very old looking as well.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Darth One

Lemme say something nice about BMW and point out that twilight purple is an absolutely fantastic color

Yeah the Twilight Purple really pops. I'd go for black interior instead of brown. Maybe a lighter shade of brown.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by NSX2M4

To say this car is beautiful is a friggin crime… Just a total abortion to car design and taste.
https://g80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1908381

The color looks nice, but kind of seems wrong on what is now such a big car.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by jmg

To be fair, Tesla isn't the only car manufacturer that benefits from subsidies.

Originally Posted by M3WC

Exactly. Telsa got some favorable gov loans, but those have been paid in full with interest almost a decade early. Ford got a Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) Loan just like Tesla, $5.9bill to be exact. Hasn't paid a cent back. Tesla isn't the only car company that has receive gov subsidies.

To be fair to CanAutM3 I believe he's referring to regulatory credits, i.e., Tesla's income from other auto manufacturers because their emissions are too high.

The problem there is:

(1.) The numbers are relatively small, so not very impactful (and not at all extracting other one time costs)
(2.) The numbers are decreasing (-7%y/y & -22% y/yQ4)
(3.) The numbers wash out if take out other Tesla one-time costs

From Tesla's 2021 report:

Our operating income improved to $2.6B in Q4 compared to the same period last year, resulting in a 14.7%
operating margin. This profit level was reached while incurring SBC expense attributable to the 2018 CEO award
of $245M in Q4, driven by the final two operational milestones becoming probable. YoY, operating income was
primarily impacted by the following items:

+ further per vehicle cost (COGS) reduction
+ growth in vehicle deliveries
+ improved profitability of automotive leasing and Service & Other business
- increase in SG&A driven mainly by $340M payroll tax on 2012 CEO award option exercise
- rising raw material, commodity, logistics and expedite costs
- increased warranty and recall cost related to a specific batch of vehicles

So basically, Tesla has a lot of 2021 one-time costs like building 2 factories & paying tax on stock-based compensation, not to mention the expedite costs (supply chain costs due to only having 2 factories)

In numbers:

* Tesla's 2021 revenue was ~USD$47B with $1.5B being regulatory credit revenue from other auto makers.[/b]
* Tesla's gross profit was ~$14B so extracting the credits removes about 10% of profit
* Adjusting for Tesla's one-time comp taxes, new factories, expedite costs expenses more than replaces the $1.5B in reg-credit revenue.

The bottom line is, not only is Tesla the 2nd most profitable auto maker on the planet, but with its new factories, 2022 efficiencies (giga castings, structural battery pack, et al), and increased production Tesla will likely move to #1 in 2022 and its production volumes will be close to BMW (and maybe beat Mercedes).

Stock price-wise, if you compare to $AMZN at a similar period in its growth cycle (so ~2016) Amazon was at ~175 P/E and Tesla, a few weeks back, was about the same despite Tesla's growth rate exceeding Amazon's (by a lot).

Volume-wise, Tesla produced ~1M EVs in 2021, Ford produced 67k, so about 7% of what Tesla is doing. Given Tesla is doubling capacity we can expect about 2M vehicles in 2022 and, compared to others in 2021, that will move Tesla into the top 10 producers ICE or EV:



The good news for, say, Porsche is, near as I can tell they outsold Tesla, Taycan to Model S, and at "double digit" profit levels according to Porsche.

If true, this puts Porsche as the only company to take on and beat Tesla in any segment.

[Sedan_Clan]