S55 engine limits

[Nicks_M3]

Hey guys,

So I have an f82 m4 that will be spending most of this season in the garage. I have a couple other cars and between work, summer vacations etc. I won’t have much of an opportunity to drive it this season. I’ve owned the car for a long time now and it will probably remain in my possession for a long time.

In light of that I have been thinking about pulling the motor out in the coming weeks and commence on an engine rebuild and upgrade throughout this winter. I have a home shop and have done a rebuild on my n54 so I’m not exactly new to this.

My plan is to go with something like a pure stage 2 to start and then maybe eventually go with kratos or a single turbo setup. Ideally somewhere in the low 800 wheel range with the ability to eventually go for a 1000whp tune for roll racing etc.

I have priced out a full engine upgrade with supporting mods to just over $40k cad. The question I have for you guys is based on what I want to run how much of that is necessary and how much of that may be overkill? Obviously rods and a crank hub are a must. Will probably do treated rod and main bearings. How necessary are stuff like pistons on this platform? What about valves and valve springs given the power levels? What about fueling? Do I need to run port + eu5’s + hpfp + lpfp? I don’t have access to e85 so it will have to be run on 93.

I appreciate all the advice guys. I am looking to start jumping into this later this summer and all through winter.

[n8dgr84]

If you want more than 700whp for racing you will have to build the engine.
Rods, pistons, crank hub, valves, springs and cylinder head porting.
Lang Racing has a good value Stage3 head.
Then you get into clutches etc., all the fueling mods, custom tuning, as well, drivetrain weaknesses....
I think the F8x platform is great at 700whp. '

To get from there to 1200whp is basically the price of the car plus a big budget for parts breakage.

Honestly, if you have to ask, you are under budget and underprepared. (no offence)

Listen to RK Tunes on the Street Alpha podcast talk about the S55.
He talks about his 1150whp build there. Pretty much just throw the catalog at it.
Only saving grace is that the S55 doesn't need any fancy fire-ring headgasket work, unlike *58 motors (supposedly).

For 93 octane I would get some Mosselman turbos with meth injection and make 650whp. You won't make over 650 on 93 octane alone with any hybrid turbo. Maybe 750 on a big ass single with a good ported head!

My best suggestion is to just read a lot.

Learn from the likes of chetrickerman , OG Shark], @[Track/S (contact:255523) and of course the forum jester NORAGRETS

[RAT3DM]

Originally Posted by n8dgr84

If you want more than 700whp for racing you will have to build the engine.
Rods, pistons, crank hub, valves, springs and cylinder head porting.
Lang Racing has a good value Stage3 head.
Then you get into clutches etc., all the fueling mods, custom tuning, as well, drivetrain weaknesses....
I think the F8x platform is great at 700whp. '

To get from there to 1200whp is basically the price of the car plus a big budget for parts breakage.

Honestly, if you have to ask, you are under budget and underprepared. (no offence)

Listen to RK Tunes on the Street Alpha podcast talk about the S55.
He talks about his 1150whp build there. Pretty much just throw the catalog at it.
Only saving grace is that the S55 doesn't need any fancy fire-ring headgasket work, unlike *58 motors (supposedly).

For 93 octane I would get some Mosselman turbos with meth injection and make 650whp. You won't make over 650 on 93 octane alone with any hybrid turbo. Maybe 750 on a big ass single with a good ported head!

My best suggestion is to just read a lot.

Learn from the likes of chetrickerman , OG Shark], @[Track/S (contact:255523) and of course the forum jester NORAGRETS

Once again alot of good information here. Also agree that between 700-800whp is a happy place for the F8X platform it is fun and responsive and handles the power beautifully. Those chasing 1000whp+ goals at point are building a purposeful race car and lose alot of the joys the car brings daily driving imo.

I recently went through this process myself with a built motor and upgraded Pures turbos with the thought of mid frame to large single turbo or aftermarket twins in the future.

I learned the head work such as porting and replacing the springs and retainers is a bit overkill and will only increase the wear on the other internal engine parts. I also upgraded my cams which is also overkill as the stock ones are more than sufficient in most applications.

Do yourself a favor and just buy a Dinan or Lang motor and swap it in and sell the current motor to help offset cost, it will be quicker and you'll have some type of limited warranty. (comes with crankhub already done.)

You will need to address fuel for the car such as DI or PI, I went the DI route. HPFP, LPFP, and upgraded injectors. Cooling system upgrades such as top mount cooler and heat exchanger make a difference as well as oil cooler.

Also as mentioned other parts like the DCT or manual clutches will need to be upgraded as around 650 TQ things start to overheat and wear.

I'd also look at driveline & subframe bushings, as well rear axles as they all become weak points.

Digest & Good luck!

[NORAGRETS]

Originally Posted by n8dgr84

If you want more than 700whp for racing you will have to build the engine.
Rods, pistons, crank hub, valves, springs and cylinder head porting.
Lang Racing has a good value Stage3 head.
Then you get into clutches etc., all the fueling mods, custom tuning, as well, drivetrain weaknesses....
I think the F8x platform is great at 700whp. '

To get from there to 1200whp is basically the price of the car plus a big budget for parts breakage.

Honestly, if you have to ask, you are under budget and underprepared. (no offence)

Listen to RK Tunes on the Street Alpha podcast talk about the S55.
He talks about his 1150whp build there. Pretty much just throw the catalog at it.
Only saving grace is that the S55 doesn't need any fancy fire-ring headgasket work, unlike *58 motors (supposedly).

For 93 octane I would get some Mosselman turbos with meth injection and make 650whp. You won't make over 650 on 93 octane alone with any hybrid turbo. Maybe 750 on a big ass single with a good ported head!

My best suggestion is to just read a lot.

Learn from the likes of chetrickerman , OG Shark], @[Track/S (contact:255523) and of course the forum jester NORAGRETS

lol why am I the forum jester?

[Nicks_M3]

Originally Posted by n8dgr84

If you want more than 700whp for racing you will have to build the engine.
Rods, pistons, crank hub, valves, springs and cylinder head porting.
Lang Racing has a good value Stage3 head.
Then you get into clutches etc., all the fueling mods, custom tuning, as well, drivetrain weaknesses....
I think the F8x platform is great at 700whp. '

To get from there to 1200whp is basically the price of the car plus a big budget for parts breakage.

Honestly, if you have to ask, you are under budget and underprepared. (no offence)

Listen to RK Tunes on the Street Alpha podcast talk about the S55.
He talks about his 1150whp build there. Pretty much just throw the catalog at it.
Only saving grace is that the S55 doesn't need any fancy fire-ring headgasket work, unlike *58 motors (supposedly).

For 93 octane I would get some Mosselman turbos with meth injection and make 650whp. You won't make over 650 on 93 octane alone with any hybrid turbo. Maybe 750 on a big ass single with a good ported head!

My best suggestion is to just read a lot.

Learn from the likes of chetrickerman , OG Shark], @[Track/S (contact:255523) and of course the forum jester NORAGRETS

Thank you for the input. You are correct in assuming that at the moment I am a bit unprepared. With the car sitting for as long as it is I am at the point of being ready to dive off the deep end.

I think a major limiting factor is going to be the fuel. I have no access to e85. The only way I can get it is by buying barrels which are currently about double the cost of 93. Not to mention issues with storing it at home. Just doesn’t make sense at the moment to run anything other than 93.

With that being said, is there any way on breaking that 600whp barrier on pump gas alone? Does it even make sense to build the internals at that point? Or would the money saved be better allocated towards higher quality supporting parts?

[b_w.]

Originally Posted by Nicks_M3

Thank you for the input. You are correct in assuming that at the moment I am a bit unprepared. With the car sitting for as long as it is I am at the point of being ready to dive off the deep end.

I think a major limiting factor is going to be the fuel. I have no access to e85. The only way I can get it is by buying barrels which are currently about double the cost of 93. Not to mention issues with storing it at home. Just doesn’t make sense at the moment to run anything other than 93.

With that being said, is there any way on breaking that 600whp barrier on pump gas alone? Does it even make sense to build the internals at that point? Or would the money saved be better allocated towards higher quality supporting parts?

I am down the single turbo path and am being told on pump 93 gas 600 whp is about the safe limit.

[Nicks_M3]

Originally Posted by RAT3DM

Once again alot of good information here. Also agree that between 700-800whp is a happy place for the F8X platform it is fun and responsive and handles the power beautifully. Those chasing 1000whp+ goals at point are building a purposeful race car and lose alot of the joys the car brings daily driving imo.

I recently went through this process myself with a built motor and upgraded Pures turbos with the thought of mid frame to large single turbo or aftermarket twins in the future.

I learned the head work such as porting and replacing the springs and retainers is a bit overkill and will only increase the wear on the other internal engine parts. I also upgraded my cams which is also overkill as the stock ones are more than sufficient in most applications.

Do yourself a favor and just buy a Dinan or Lang motor and swap it in and sell the current motor to help offset cost, it will be quicker and you'll have some type of limited warranty. (comes with crankhub already done.)

You will need to address fuel for the car such as DI or PI, I went the DI route. HPFP, LPFP, and upgraded injectors. Cooling system upgrades such as top mount cooler and heat exchanger make a difference as well as oil cooler.

Also as mentioned other parts like the DCT or manual clutches will need to be upgraded as around 650 TQ things start to overheat and wear.

I'd also look at driveline & subframe bushings, as well rear axles as they all become weak points.

Digest & Good luck!

I agree that 700-800 is a good range. That’s why I was looking around 800whp to be able to enjoy on the street. However I would really like the ability to go beyond 1000whp from time to time when I go to roll racing events. This car for the last 4 years has been my 3rd or 4th car. It’s never been a daily, always a point A to point A car or a car I run on the track for a bit.

Part of the fun in building cars is to be able to do it yourself. I get having a warranty may make sense but I enjoy working on cars myself. That’s why Ive spent so much on a home garage I also need something to keep me busy over the winter months this upcoming year.

Would you say then that all I really need is rods and a crankhub? At what point do the pistons become a concern? I have a set of vac bearings that I bought a few years ago when I rebuilt my blown n54 with the intention of installing them when I do my hub.

How necessary does fuelling become when the limiting factor is that I only have access to 93? (Ontario Canada problems) I have looked into the eu5 + dorch lift kit solution.

I appreciate all the help guys and trust me I am reading! I can’t find much information on how to push beyond 600-650 on pump gas alone.

[b_w.]

Originally Posted by Nicks_M3

I agree that 700-800 is a good range. That’s why I was looking around 800whp to be able to enjoy on the street. However I would really like the ability to go beyond 1000whp from time to time when I go to roll racing events. This car for the last 4 years has been my 3rd or 4th car. It’s never been a daily, always a point A to point A car or a car I run on the track for a bit.

Part of the fun in building cars is to be able to do it yourself. I get having a warranty may make sense but I enjoy working on cars myself. That’s why Ive spent so much on a home garage I also need something to keep me busy over the winter months this upcoming year.

Would you say then that all I really need is rods and a crankhub? At what point do the pistons become a concern? I have a set of vac bearings that I bought a few years ago when I rebuilt my blown n54 with the intention of installing them when I do my hub.

How necessary does fuelling become when the limiting factor is that I only have access to 93? (Ontario Canada problems) I have looked into the eu5 + dorch lift kit solution.

I appreciate all the help guys and trust me I am reading! I can’t find much information on how to push beyond 600-650 on pump gas alone.

Do you have any access to race gas in the area?

[Nicks_M3]

Originally Posted by b_w.

Do you have any access to race gas in the area?

I live in southwestern Ontario. It is an area notorious for being near impossible to acquire any form of race gas. I actually just priced out $11.70/gal for e85 from a vendor that I would have to ship a 55 gal drum from. I did end up finding a station about 60 miles away that sells e30.

For those of us in Southern Ontario the options really are 94 from petro canada or meth injection which is something I really don’t want to rely on for obvious reasons lol.

[Schemxr]

Originally Posted by n8dgr84

If you want more than 700whp for racing you will have to build the engine.
Rods, pistons, crank hub, valves, springs and cylinder head porting.
Lang Racing has a good value Stage3 head.
Then you get into clutches etc., all the fueling mods, custom tuning, as well, drivetrain weaknesses....
I think the F8x platform is great at 700whp. '

To get from there to 1200whp is basically the price of the car plus a big budget for parts breakage.

Honestly, if you have to ask, you are under budget and underprepared. (no offence)

Listen to RK Tunes on the Street Alpha podcast talk about the S55.
He talks about his 1150whp build there. Pretty much just throw the catalog at it.
Only saving grace is that the S55 doesn't need any fancy fire-ring headgasket work, unlike *58 motors (supposedly).

For 93 octane I would get some Mosselman turbos with meth injection and make 650whp. You won't make over 650 on 93 octane alone with any hybrid turbo. Maybe 750 on a big ass single with a good ported head!

My best suggestion is to just read a lot.

Learn from the likes of chetrickerman , OG Shark], @[Track/S (contact:255523) and of course the forum jester NORAGRETS

stock motor stock trans safe limit is up to 800whp and below 650wtq. anything above that must have at least built bottom end, so rods and pistons. stocks rods past 650wtq are very risky as they may bend.
you can get 750whp and your tuner will limit the torque to safe limits with upgraded turbos and proper fueling.

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by NORAGRETS

lol why am I the forum jester?

He's secretly calling you a clown...shhh.

[NORAGRETS]

Originally Posted by N1rve

He's secretly calling you a clown...shhh.

Yeah I picked up on that…wtf guy