Forgot to flash back to stock-Now dealer says I need a new DME

[Fuel-It!]

Yes once flashed it's easy to detect after the fact but we don't flash our cars for warranty claims. We flash them to go faster. Got to pay to play!

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by nars3000

Yup, the SWFL version mismatch was caused by a widely popular tuning software, but per this particular BMW dealer, the tuning software brand is irrelevant once the DME has been flashed. They have way multiple ways to trace a flash tune if the car ever comes in for a major warranty claim.

The best way for them to find out is to take it in tuned, we can all agree there

The dealer likely wouldn't be able to tell themselves unless there was an SWFL mismatch, or even worse, BTLD.

[RevNev]

Originally Posted by drgmt

No he shouldn't. He should take responsibility for his actions. Not try to defraud BMW for a warranty he is not entitled to.

Yeah you're right. We should all be paying list price for our cars too so we don't deprive the dealer of the profit margin they're entitled.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by RevNev

Yeah you're right. We should all be paying list price for our cars too so we don't deprive the dealer of the profit margin they're entitled.

What does that have to do with a franchise dealer selling a product and then the end-user deceiving the manufacture of that said product?

Are you going to blame Best Buy if you tune your Dyson vacuum they sold you and it then blows up?

I don't care morally and I do a bunch of wrong stuff myself but if I get busted, I take it like a man and don't blame anyone but myself.

It's part of being an adult.

[RevNev]

Originally Posted by Poochie

What does that have to do with a franchise dealer selling a product and then the end-user deceiving the manufacture of that said product?

Are you going to blame Best Buy if you tune your Dyson vacuum they sold you and it then blows up?

I don't care morally and I do a bunch of wrong stuff myself but if I get busted, I take it like a man and don't blame anyone but myself.

It's part of being an adult.

It's the same thing, depriving a business of profit margin they're entitled whether beating a dealer down on price or fudging a warranty claim.

The employees at dealerships flagging modified cars are depriving the dealership owner from making money. BMW pay dealerships to do warranty work and rejecting warranty claims so the car owner pays for the repair elsewhere doesn't benefit the dealership. The car owner still bought the car with warranty claim potential factored into the price structure none the less.

It still boils down to a DME re-flash by whom. The car owner is entitled to say that no one other than the dealer has accessed the DME and discovering a flash tune doesn't eliminate the dealer from flash tuning it. In fact the dealer reporting a flash tune confirms they've accessed the DME but there's no evidence confirming the car owner has flash tuned it or commissioned someone else to do it. The car detailer may have played around with a flash tuner when vacuuming the car after the pre-delivery check before the car owner bought it.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by RevNev

The car owner still bought the car with warranty claim potential factored into the price structure none the less.

It's not the same; the warranty agreement stipulates that if you alter vehicle from the factory state, the warranty is not longer effective. That's fair enough for me.
If you never mess with the vehicle, 100% the warranty remains active and you have nothing to worry about.

If the dealer doesn't abide by manufacture's policies on repairs and gets audited, they'll get chargeback the repair cost of which they were paid.

You can't blame them for not wanting to roll the dice, when they have bonafide proof that you did indeed interfere with the vehicle's ECU mapping.

I realize that you're never going to see the errors of the OP's ways, so let's just agree to disagree..

[BzsBimmer]

“It's the same thing, depriving a business of profit margin they're entitled whether beating a dealer down on price or fudging a warranty claim.”

Not the same. This is why it’s called a MSRP Mfg SUGGESTED retail price. Negotiating is not illegal nor is MSRP entitled.

Warranty fraud , however, is illegal.

[drgmt]

Warranty fraud is illegal.

Negotiating a price suitable to both parties that mutually agreed upon is legal business.

If the difference here is not apparent, something is wrong.

[RevNev]

Originally Posted by drgmt

Warranty fraud is illegal.

Negotiating a price suitable to both parties that mutually agreed upon is legal business.

If the difference here is not apparent, something is wrong.

It's a legal requirement to provide warranty on a new car and rectify defects for a period of time after delivery. If they choose to reject a warranty claim the onus is on the warranty provider to justify the reason why.

We're not talking about an aftermarket intercooler and catless downpipes for example providing direct evidence of vehicle alterations that contradicts the warranty. We're talking about DME software in this instance that doesn't visually alter the car. In other words it's reasonable to believe that the owner of the car would have no idea what software version is loaded into the DME or posses the programs or knowledge to access it.

To void the warranty on the grounds that the owner of the car has altered the DME software and contradicted the warranty, the onus is on the warranty provider to prove it, otherwise they're contradicting their legal requirement to repair a defect free of charge during the vehicle's warranty period.

The first question the car owner should be asking when told by a dealer their DME has been flash-tuned and their warranty is void; ask the dealer when did this supposedly happen what date and time? If they can't answer that, they can't void the warranty.

[MisterF80M3]

Originally Posted by drgmt

No he shouldn't. He should take responsibility for his actions. Not try to defraud BMW for a warranty he is not entitled to.

I agree.

However, the car was working fine before he brought it into the dealership. The OP even said the "DME failed while attempting to fix the bluetooth issues." So that means the technician at BMW broke it. A tune itself does not cause the DME to fail.

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by RevNev

It's a legal requirement to provide warranty on a new car and rectify defects for a period of time after delivery. If they choose to reject a warranty claim the onus is on the warranty provider to justify the reason why.

We're not talking about an aftermarket intercooler and catless downpipes for example providing direct evidence of vehicle alterations that contradicts the warranty. We're talking about DME software in this instance that doesn't visually alter the car. In other words it's reasonable to believe that the owner of the car would have no idea what software version is loaded into the DME or posses the programs or knowledge to access it.

To void the warranty on the grounds that the owner of the car has altered the DME software and contradicted the warranty, the onus is on the warranty provider to prove it, otherwise they're contradicting their legal requirement to repair a defect free of charge during the vehicle's warranty period.

The first question the car owner should be asking when told by a dealer their DME has been flash-tuned and their warranty is void; ask the dealer when did this supposedly happen what date and time? If they can't answer that, they can't void the warranty.

He is entitled to make a claim. However if he intentionally misleads BMW as you suggest he should by denial, that's when deception and hence warranty fraud comes in.

Particularly if BMW has evidence to the contrary.

If however they check and are happy to repair, and he says nothing this may be a moral but not necessarily a legal issue.

[RevNev]

Originally Posted by MisterF80M3

I agree.

However, the car was working fine before he brought it into the dealership. The OP even said the "DME failed while attempting to fix the bluetooth issues." So that means the technician at BMW broke it. A tune itself does not cause the DME to fail.

Correct. The dealer's trying to pull a stunt to avoid the cost of remedying a fault they caused.

[RevNev]

Originally Posted by drgmt

He is entitled to make a claim. However if he intentionally misleads BMW as you suggest he should by denial, that's when deception and hence warranty fraud comes in.

Particularly if BMW has evidence to the contrary.

If however they check and are happy to repair, and he says nothing this may be a moral but not necessarily a legal issue.

For fraud to be applied, they'd need evidence of the car owner's knowledge of the re-flash. Short of producing a video of the car owner hooked up and loading tunes, the car owner's brother in law may have flashed it without the owner's knowledge. That's not fraud denying a re-flash the owner isn't aware of.

Anyway to effect a warranty claim with a modified car, it's a better practice to present the car as stock as possible for the best potential to avoid warranty dramas.

[drgmt]

Originally Posted by RevNev

For fraud to be applied, they'd need evidence of the car owner's knowledge of the re-flash. Short of producing a video of the car owner hooked up and loading tunes, the car owner's brother in law may have flashed it without the owner's knowledge. That's not fraud denying a re-flash the owner isn't aware of.

Anyway to effect a warranty claim with a modified car, it's a better practice to present the car as stock as possible for the best potential to avoid warranty dramas.

He would be telling a lie.

The only way to fight BMWs decision is to take them to court - how many have the funds for that ?

And if the owner decided to take BMW to court - how long do you think it would take for a lie to be uncovered?

If BMW denies the claim because they detect a flash, and you decide to take it court - that whole "brother in law flashed" lie would unravel pretty quick.

Once it is detected and you are busted - take it up the rear end and move on.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by RevNev

For fraud to be applied, they'd need evidence of the car owner's knowledge of the re-flash. Short of producing a video of the car owner hooked up and loading tunes, the car owner's brother in law may have flashed it without the owner's knowledge. That's not fraud denying a re-flash the owner isn't aware of.

Anyway to effect a warranty claim with a modified car, it's a better practice to present the car as stock as possible for the best potential to avoid warranty dramas.

You do know the Dinan tune is not a DME flash tune, yes? Dinan uses a piggy back box to trick the DME into making more power so it’s physically detectable. However, you’ll still find a way to say the owner had no idea how that box was installed and, therefore, is still entitled to their factory drivetrain warranty

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

You do know the Dinan tune is not a DME flash tune, yes? Dinan uses a piggy back box to trick the DME into making more power so it's physically detectable. However, you'll still find a way to say the owner had no idea how that box was installed and, therefore, is still entitled to their factory drivetrain warranty

You can always blame it on the Piggyback Fairy..

Throw in the towel, bro.. Some folks are beyond reasoning and he can lie to himself all he wants; when they open a PUMA case (Requirement for all S55 warranty claims) and read the data off the ECU's EEPROM, they'll discover the flash counter has increased or the software is mismatched and deny the coverage outright.

They'll then simply tell him to go kick rocks and all that justification won't even get him on the bus.

[Ex_Stig]

Internet lawyers are always the best kind of lawyers. Lol

I don't blame the OP for not providing any further update.

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

You do know the Dinan tune is not a DME flash tune, yes? Dinan uses a piggy back box to trick the DME into making more power so it’s physically detectable. However, you’ll still find a way to say the owner had no idea how that box was installed and, therefore, is still entitled to their factory drivetrain warranty

Either some of you guys are intentionally submitting confusing posts (seeing the trend with the same group of people), or BP is broken. OP clearly mentioned he has a BM3 tune, so how the heck is Dinan being referenced in a DME flash topic?

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by nars3000

Either some of you guys are intentionally submitting confusing posts (seeing the trend with the same group of people), or BP is broken. OP clearly mentioned he has a BM3 tune, so how the heck is Dinan being referenced in a DME flash topic?

Oops...replied to the wrong thread. I made a mistake and I apologize. I’m certainly not in what you’re referring to as “the same group of people”.

[RevNev]

Originally Posted by drgmt

He would be telling a lie.

The only way to fight BMWs decision is to take them to court - how many have the funds for that ?

And if the owner decided to take BMW to court - how long do you think it would take for a lie to be uncovered?

If BMW denies the claim because they detect a flash, and you decide to take it court - that whole "brother in law flashed" lie would unravel pretty quick.

Once it is detected and you are busted - take it up the rear end and move on.

The dealer has possession of the car prior to delivery and as an example, the pre-delivery check on my M4 was conducted according to service records, 9 months prior to me taking delivery. The dealer can't verify what program was loaded into the DME at the time of delivery and that's the argument.

At best if it's possible, the dealer may be able to verify the DME program 9 months prior to delivery but in the 9 months the car's kicked around the yard unsold, anyone could have tampered with it.

It's not about the program BMW loaded into the DME, it's about the program loaded into the DME at the time the dealer sold the car.

If the dealer has modified the car and caused BMW to void the warranty in Australia, the dealer is liable to cover it. That's the reason dealers won't generally fit aftermarket components on cars under warranty.

[Kbueno]

Originally Posted by RevNev

Correct. The dealer's trying to pull a stunt to avoid the cost of remedying a fault they caused.

This. From a high level view, the Dealer broke it so they are obligated to fix. Dealer should eat or partially pay the 4K, get the car going and void warranty

[RevNev]

Originally Posted by Poochie

You can always blame it on the Piggyback Fairy..

Throw in the towel, bro.. Some folks are beyond reasoning and he can lie to himself all he wants; when they open a PUMA case (Requirement for all S55 warranty claims) and read the data off the ECU's EEPROM, they'll discover the flash counter has increased or the software is mismatched and deny the coverage outright.

They'll then simply tell him to go kick rocks and all that justification won't even get him on the bus.

That's not how it works in Australia. The sales contract isn't with BMW, it's with the dealer and new cars have a statutory warranty. That is; the dealer isn't exempt from providing warranty because BMW won't accept a claim. A motor dealer licence holder in Australia can't sell a car that isn't covered by warranty without a written warranty exemption agreement.

Whilst the dealer may try "I'm sorry BMW won't cover that claim", there's several consumer law and dealer licences breaches you can summons a dealership with if they refuse to fix the car.