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      09-05-2019, 09:31 AM   #45
Alan l.
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good work Racer20.

The L and R top hats are the same so makes me wonder why everyone only has this noise on the drivers side.... I've had this noise with a brand new top hat installed so its not that. Is it possible that on lowered cars there isn't enough preload from the spring as the shock un-compress itself?

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      09-05-2019, 11:25 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan l. View Post
good work Racer20.

The L and R top hats are the same so makes me wonder why everyone only has this noise on the drivers side.... I've had this noise with a brand new top hat installed so its not that. Is it possible that on lowered cars there isn't enough preload from the spring as the shock un-compress itself?

Alan
The top hat itself is the same, but it's rotated into a different orientation in-car. Check list 10 . . . I suspect the load path doesn't line up as neatly with the recessional motion path on the passenger side.

I think the 5 bolt mounts were an attempt to fix this problem, but didn't completely eliminate it. I've driven another members 2017 car in my test bump and the noise is there but mine is significantly worse.

Now the tough question: how to fix it?
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      09-05-2019, 01:01 PM   #47
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Urethane insert?
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      09-05-2019, 01:07 PM   #48
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The 5-bolts mount was part of the LCI modifications to increase steering feel. This noise was fixed in the F3x by a new steering rack insert kit as discussed before. Nothing for the F8x other than replacing the rack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
The top hat itself is the same, but it's rotated into a different orientation in-car. Check list 10 . . . I suspect the load path doesn't line up as neatly with the recessional motion path on the passenger side.

I think the 5 bolt mounts were an attempt to fix this problem, but didn't completely eliminate it. I've driven another members 2017 car in my test bump and the noise is there but mine is significantly worse.

Now the tough question: how to fix it?
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      09-05-2019, 02:40 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Encanto View Post
The 5-bolts mount was part of the LCI modifications to increase steering feel. This noise was fixed in the F3x by a new steering rack insert kit as discussed before. Nothing for the F8x other than replacing the rack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
The top hat itself is the same, but it's rotated into a different orientation in-car. Check list 10 . . . I suspect the load path doesn't line up as neatly with the recessional motion path on the passenger side.

I think the 5 bolt mounts were an attempt to fix this problem, but didn't completely eliminate it. I've driven another members 2017 car in my test bump and the noise is there but mine is significantly worse.

Now the tough question: how to fix it?
The only reason the 5 bolt mount would increase steering feel is if there was too much compliance in the joint. Which is exactly the same thing that would cause this clunk noise.

The F3X and F8X gears are completely different, made by different suppliers. I haven't seen any actual evidence that the noise is coming from the steering gear on the F8X, and plenty of evidence indicates that this is the problem (on my car at least).
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      09-05-2019, 03:51 PM   #50
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The LCI OEM documentation stated the 5-bolt change as part of the chassis changes to improve steering feel and suspension tuning. These changes started with late MY2015 F3x and F8x production.

Both steering gears show the clunk, some without suspension mods, most with the mods. You have quite eliminated all possible causes of this clink -except the steering rack. And that’s the part that BMW replaces when everything else fails to eliminate this noise - but only when the suspension is OEM. My brother’s 17 M3 has this clunk with Eibach V2, my 18 M3 with Eibach V1 does not. We are going to try the steering rack adjustment once we get the tool.

Most probably you have been the only person outside BMW that have gone this far in finding the root cause of this problem, and for that thank you very much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
The only reason the 5 bolt mount would increase steering feel is if there was too much compliance in the joint. Which is exactly the same thing that would cause this clunk noise.

The F3X and F8X gears are completely different, made by different suppliers. I haven't seen any actual evidence that the noise is coming from the steering gear on the F8X, and plenty of evidence indicates that this is the problem (on my car at least).
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      09-05-2019, 04:03 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encanto View Post
The LCI OEM documentation stated the 5-bolt change as part of the chassis changes to improve steering feel and suspension tuning. These changes started with late MY2015 F3x and F8x production.

Both steering gears show the clunk, some without suspension mods, most with the mods. You have quite eliminated all possible causes of this clink -except the steering rack. And that's the part that BMW replaces when everything else fails to eliminate this noise - but only when the suspension is OEM. My brother's 17 M3 has this clunk with Eibach V2, my 18 M3 with Eibach V1 does not. We are going to try the steering rack adjustment once we get the tool.

Most probably you have been the only person outside BMW that have gone this far in finding the root cause of this problem, and for that thank you very much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
The only reason the 5 bolt mount would increase steering feel is if there was too much compliance in the joint. Which is exactly the same thing that would cause this clunk noise.

The F3X and F8X gears are completely different, made by different suppliers. I haven't seen any actual evidence that the noise is coming from the steering gear on the F8X, and plenty of evidence indicates that this is the problem (on my car at least).
Being in this field, I'm familiar with the difference between what marketing materials claim vs why something was actually done. Both are true . . . Steering response is probably better, but that would only occur if the joint was insufficient rigid in the first place.

I'm not fully buying into the steering gear explanation yet because it doesn't fit with the evidence (on my car) but I'll certainly be happy to be wrong. At least that means it's fixable.

Keep us posted, looking forward to hearing if it solves the issue for you.

Note that my clunk is significantly louder and heavier than the clunk I heard on the 2017 car I drove. There very well could be multiple things going on here.
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      09-05-2019, 04:31 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
The top hat itself is the same, but it's rotated into a different orientation in-car. Check list 10 . . . I suspect the load path doesn't line up as neatly with the recessional motion path on the passenger side.

I think the 5 bolt mounts were an attempt to fix this problem, but didn't completely eliminate it. I've driven another members 2017 car in my test bump and the noise is there but mine is significantly worse.

Now the tough question: how to fix it?
That other members car is a 2016 with competition pack and 5 bolt top mounts!!!! I also work in the industry as Racer20, after reviewing the video and discussion I'm very convinced its not the steering rack causing the noise.

Last edited by mitch32; 09-05-2019 at 04:51 PM..
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      09-05-2019, 05:13 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitch32 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
The top hat itself is the same, but it's rotated into a different orientation in-car. Check list 10 . . . I suspect the load path doesn't line up as neatly with the recessional motion path on the passenger side.

I think the 5 bolt mounts were an attempt to fix this problem, but didn't completely eliminate it. I've driven another members 2017 car in my test bump and the noise is there but mine is significantly worse.

Now the tough question: how to fix it?
That other members car is a 2016 with competition pack and 5 bolt top mounts!!!! I also work in the industry as Racer20, after reviewing the video and discussion I'm very convinced its not the steering rack causing the noise.
Oops, I thought yours was a 2017. Thanks for the help Mitch!

The dealer's "area rep" was out today and is looking into the steering gear issue. I don't have faith that this can be solved at the dealer level beyond just replacing random parts and claiming it's fixed, but we'll see wheat they say.
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      09-05-2019, 07:00 PM   #54
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Guys,

Another data point.

Mine is a '18 purchased in Dec '17 with Sept '17 build date. It has 5-bolt mount obviously.
I installed M Performance HAS in April '19 with 7.8k miles on the odo. The car is lowered a couple mm below the recommended height.

I started hearing this metal to metal clunking about a couple months ago, ~10k miles on the odo. I checked and rechecked all nuts and bolts based on factory torque setting.
I'm getting frustrated and thinking of bringing the car to the dealership for them to deal with it.
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      09-05-2019, 08:04 PM   #55
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A chassis design expert buddy of mine who works at another OEM looked up their chassis measurements on the 2018 M4 that they use for benchmarking, and the stock M4 shows almost 0 bump steer for the first inch+ of travel up and down from the stock 2passenger ride height.

His quick take was that moderate lowering probably wouldn't increase the loads on the steering gear too much. With the MPHAS at least, the stock travel limits are retained, so the tierods and steering gear should still be operating well within their design limits.

Again . . . Just a quick take based on an email discussion based on the evidence found on my car only. If BMW is willing to replace your steering gear under warranty, have it at and cross your fingers.
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      09-06-2019, 11:05 AM   #56
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Adjusting the steering rack screw solved my brother’s 17 M3 clunk. Took car to dealer to replace cracking seats emblems and asked shop foreman to adjust rack at our cost. We provided tool as they did not have any -they just replace steering rack, we were told. We did tell foreman to mark the OEM position of bolt and turn clockwise no more than 1/8 of turn. They did.

No questions asked about adjustment (1 hour of labor) or black seat emblems replacing the cracked silver ones. Steering feel is no different but wheel is crooked by millimeters, wheel alignment will be required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
Being in this field, I'm familiar with the difference between what marketing materials claim vs why something was actually done. Both are true . . . Steering response is probably better, but that would only occur if the joint was insufficient rigid in the first place.

I'm not fully buying into the steering gear explanation yet because it doesn't fit with the evidence (on my car) but I'll certainly be happy to be wrong. At least that means it's fixable.

Keep us posted, looking forward to hearing if it solves the issue for you.

Note that my clunk is significantly louder and heavier than the clunk I heard on the 2017 car I drove. There very well could be multiple things going on here.
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      09-06-2019, 11:39 AM   #57
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      09-06-2019, 11:53 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encanto View Post
Interesting. Where did you get the tool? Do you have video of your clunk (or his)? Did he just get it done today?
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      09-06-2019, 12:33 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
Interesting. Where did you get the tool? Do you have video of your clunk (or his)? Did he just get it done today?
https://servicems.eu/specialnyj-inst...ring-rack.html.. not cheap.

Clunk was exactly like yours -left side, compression clunk. This was done this morning at dealer.
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      09-06-2019, 05:48 PM   #60
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Brought the car in to the dealer and took the tech out for a drive. He picked up the noise pretty quickly. After troubleshooting for a couple hours, he couldn't pinpoint the root cause. I'm not technically inclined to explain what Racer has done.

The tech suggested replacing the driver side strut under warranty as part of troubleshooting the issue. I insisted replacing both sides, but they declined. The car is 2 year old with 11.3k miles. Should I be concerned with replacing only one strut?

TIA!
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      09-06-2019, 06:26 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonluv810 View Post
Brought the car in to the dealer and took the tech out for a drive. He picked up the noise pretty quickly. After troubleshooting for a couple hours, he couldn't pinpoint the root cause. I'm not technically inclined to explain what Racer has done.

The tech suggested replacing the driver side strut under warranty as part of troubleshooting the issue. I insisted replacing both sides, but they declined. The car is 2 year old with 11.3k miles. Should I be concerned with replacing only one strut?

TIA!
No
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      09-09-2019, 10:59 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encanto View Post
https://servicems.eu/specialnyj-inst...ring-rack.html.. not cheap.

Clunk was exactly like yours -left side, compression clunk. This was done this morning at dealer.
So, am i right that the clunk is solved with this tool by turning the bolt clockwise not more than 1/8" ?

That means that the F80 has also this bolt? I read somewhere that the design is different than the F30 rack.

What is the price for this tool? Because on their Page is no price.
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      09-09-2019, 12:24 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erik-f80 View Post
So, am i right that the clunk is solved with this tool by turning the bolt clockwise not more than 1/8" ?

That means that the F80 has also this bolt? I read somewhere that the design is different than the F30 rack.
This 2017 M3 left front clunk was solved by following the F30 forum thread of their steering clunk. The 1/8 of clockwise turn (not by inch) was also suggested in that thread.

Quote:
What is the price for this tool? Because on their Page is no price.
Click the “Price by request” button on the page for the price. That vendor was also mentioned in the F30 thread.
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      09-10-2019, 12:42 PM   #64
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No need to buy that tool. Just go to home depot and get a universal socket set. I think its the 5/8 that fits the nut/bolt.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Crescent...-204064337-_-N
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      09-10-2019, 01:45 PM   #65
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Was there a service bulletin for the F30 steering rack fix?
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      09-10-2019, 05:14 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rezN View Post
No need to buy that tool. Just go to home depot and get a universal socket set. I think its the 5/8 that fits the nut/bolt.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Crescent...-204064337-_-N
Bolt has 3 holes, not Torx, Allen, or Hex.
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