M3/M4 vs. Tesla Model 3 Performance

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I was watching Matt Farah's podcast/youtube where he mentioned how amazing it was that the new model 3 perf can program the front wheels brake regen to create entry oversteer on a corner.

I think the point is that the future of these electric cars is a complete revolution in the way our current "analog" minds work on the track. computers and electric motors are going to make amazing drivers out of all of us it seems.

Still, it is too early for me to make a purchase because I hate awd for a sports sedan/sports car, and the weight- I also am concerned about the drive becoming too numb, and the computers doing too much... so I'll keep driving my horse drawn carriage til they can address these things for me.

did you read the article about how Randy P helped Tesla rewrite track mode? Super cool to read about how his experience still was needed to dial the calibration in.

Btw, if you'll pay for the track insurance and chip in funds for the cost of tires and brakes, you're welcome to track my car, if you are interested.

Open offer to long term posters on the forum who have track experience

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

did you read the article about how Randy P helped Tesla rewrite track mode? Super cool to read about how his experience still was needed to dial the calibration in.

Btw, if you'll pay for the track insurance and chip in funds for the cost of tires and brakes, you're welcome to track my car, if you are interested.

Open offer to long term posters on the forum who have track experience

thank you for that generous offer.

My friend with his model 3 perf is moving to monterey so I may hit u up on that offer on a trip to visit him, he's probably not keen on tracking his though.

[shay2nak]

Originally Posted by e36clubracer

Thats because only Californians can afford them and just about every person you talk to wants to be a social justice hero for driving an electric car....

Not really. I said I would never drive one and they fugly. Well, thanks to the mass idiot sheep here the gas & registration tax increase repeal failed on the ballot, so now I'm done paying these assholes for overpriced gas. Next car I buy is a TM3. But because I just got the M3, I can't so I lease a cheap version...Chevy Volt. Fuck CA.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by shay2nak

Not really. I said I would never drive one and they fugly. Well, thanks to the mass idiot sheep here the gas & registration tax increase repeal failed on the ballot, so now I'm done paying these assholes for overpriced gas. Next car I buy is a TM3. But because I just got the M3, I can't so I lease a cheap version...Chevy Volt. Fuck CA.

Put the volt on Turo, get a Model 3, sell M3, get a 986 S and swap LS3 v8 into it.

Best of all worlds. Passive income from turo, commute in Tesla, have fun in cheapo V8 mid engined Porsche with hydraulic steering

All the winning.

Don't let having an M3 hold you back from that electric car you really want

[hatepotholez]

Originally Posted by IS350

Good comments! If offered on the M3/4, would any of you pay for an autopilot equivalent? I definitely would for traffic.

Absolutely!

[CanAutM3]

Not quite an M3, but interesting comparison nonetheless:

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Not quite an M3, but interesting comparison nonetheless:

Wasn't the model 3 performance either, but was still quite enjoyable.

[cotmfk]

For me, part of the problem with the Model 3 Performance is that there is nothing visually distinctive about it. The $64k Performance model looks almost exactly like the $46k base model. An M on the other hand has different aerodynamics, among other things. If they actually develop a visually differentiated performance line, it might be worth looking into.

[JibSTir13]

Originally Posted by cotmfk

For me, part of the problem with the Model 3 Performance is that there is nothing visually distinctive about it. The $64k Performance model looks almost exactly like the $46k base model. An M on the other hand has different aerodynamics, among other things. If they actually develop a visually differentiated performance line, it might be worth looking into.

Doesn't the M4 and 4 series present the same issue?

[cotmfk]

Originally Posted by JibSTir13

Doesn't the M4 and 4 series present the same issue?

No - and that's exactly my point. The differences between the M4 and the 4 series are huge. There's seemingly no difference between the base 3 and the performance 3 other than wheels and more power.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by cotmfk

No - and that's exactly my point. The differences between the M4 and the 4 series are huge. There's seemingly no difference between the base 3 and the performance 3 other than wheels and more power.

You're correct. Model 3 isn't the one you want if you want to stand out. It's just red calipers and bigger wheels (that are same design).

Wide body 911 with foot tall wing and 315 wide rear tires is what you really need for that big visual difference

[Tall Tom Cruise]

Looks like the virgin dork squad has found our thread: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...-think.126173/

[six-n-twins53]

Originally Posted by Tall Tom Cruise

Looks like the virgin dork squad has found our thread: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre...-think.126173/

Hahahaha

[blinkme323]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

You're correct. Model 3 isn't the one you want if you want to stand out. It's just red calipers and bigger wheels (that are same design).

Wide body 911 with foot tall wing and 315 wide rear tires is what you really need for that big visual difference

This is the largest flaw with the Model 3 Performance IMO. 99% of the people that buy a performance oriented model of anything (M3, Type R, what have you) want some kind of noticeable differentiation from the base model. Is it silly in a way? Sure. But it's also human nature to have that wow factor, especially when you are shelling out the extra coin.

Tesla really should have added something other than wheels...maybe a more aggressive bumper, anything.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by blinkme323

This is the largest flaw with the Model 3 Performance IMO. 99% of the people that buy a performance oriented model of anything (M3, Type R, what have you) want some kind of noticeable differentiation from the base model. Is it silly in a way? Sure. But it's also human nature to have that wow factor, especially when you are shelling out the extra coin.

Tesla really should have added something other than wheels...maybe a more aggressive bumper, anything.

Few people could tell my f80 apart from a 328 with m sport package, so I'm not sure it would really matter.

And at this stage in the game, most people are either so biased against EV that a different bumper wouldn't have made a difference, or so in favor of EV they throw down $$ to reserve vaporware. (or like me, buy vaporware like full self driving option)

[blinkme323]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Few people could tell my f80 apart from a 328 with m sport package, so I'm not sure it would really matter.

And at this stage in the game, most people are either so biased against EV that a different bumper wouldn't have made a difference, or so in favor of EV they throw down $$ to reserve vaporware. (or like me, buy vaporware like full self driving option)

Agreed. I could care less what other people think though, I just want something better looking / more dynamic. It just seems like an oversight to me, but maybe I'm wrong.

[fasternfaster]

I traded in my 08 M3 a few weeks back on a TM3 Performance and just wanted to give so e feedback as to how it compares.

Number 1 is the speed/acceleration. It's stupid quick. ¼ mile in 11.7sec. 0-60 in less than 3.3. acceleration is very smooth as there is no shifting.

Hard launching is strange because it's so quiet. No tire screetch or anything, just pushed back in the seat and some wind noise.

Handling compared to the M3 is comparable. I had square 275 Michelin PSS vs the TM3 with 235 PS4S. I don't really feel the weight of the car since I didn't take it to a track, but it's very responsive. And has very good grip considering that it's been very cold recently I can't fully test out the tires. I did get it a bit sideways flooring it coming around some round about and I was shocked at how the AWD and stability control handled my rough inputs.

The BMW is not very forgiving even with MDM on. It cuts the power and then slowly gives it back afterwards. The TM3 is almost violent in how quickly the torque returns after a slip situation. It's a real kick in the ass.it just goes where you point.

To the critic saying that the car lacks character..it's like saying that a roller coaster needs an engine. Sure there is no sound, but holy shit it goes.

My m3 had 18inch wheels and dynamic suspension, but the Tesla seems much more comfortable over bumps even on the 20inch wheels. This is surprising.

I don't mind the interior one bit. I look at the road. If I need to see something it's right on the screen. The seat is not as good as the M3 for side bolstering, but I find them to be very comfortable.

I got the Tesla wall charger installed, and I get charged back up very quickly. I get about 44 miles of range per hour at home.

I was thinking about changing the wheels to allow for wider rubber, but it's honestly so good now I doubt it's necessary unless I take it to the track.

Also for me personally I didn't get this car because it is an EV, or to save money. I got it because it's fast and I think it looks great.

[blinkme323]

I'm seriously considering the Model 3 for when my F80 M3 is up later this year. The only thing I can't quite get over yet are the understated looks of you will. But the performance seems hard to beat.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by blinkme323

I'm seriously considering the Model 3 for when my F80 M3 is up later this year. The only thing I can't quite get over yet are the understated looks of you will. But the performance seems hard to beat.

Yeah, it does not look aggressive at all. A downgrade in looks from the Model S, actually. I am glad Tesla exists to push the rest of the industry forward at the very least.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by fasternfaster

I traded in my 08 M3 a few weeks back on a TM3 Performance and just wanted to give so e feedback as to how it compares.

Number 1 is the speed/acceleration. It's stupid quick. ¼ mile in 11.7sec. 0-60 in less than 3.3. acceleration is very smooth as there is no shifting.

Hard launching is strange because it's so quiet. No tire screetch or anything, just pushed back in the seat and some wind noise.

Handling compared to the M3 is comparable. I had square 275 Michelin PSS vs the TM3 with 235 PS4S. I don't really feel the weight of the car since I didn't take it to a track, but it's very responsive. And has very good grip considering that it's been very cold recently I can't fully test out the tires. I did get it a bit sideways flooring it coming around some round about and I was shocked at how the AWD and stability control handled my rough inputs.

The BMW is not very forgiving even with MDM on. It cuts the power and then slowly gives it back afterwards. The TM3 is almost violent in how quickly the torque returns after a slip situation. It's a real kick in the ass.it just goes where you point.

To the critic saying that the car lacks character..it's like saying that a roller coaster needs an engine. Sure there is no sound, but holy shit it goes.

My m3 had 18inch wheels and dynamic suspension, but the Tesla seems much more comfortable over bumps even on the 20inch wheels. This is surprising.

I don't mind the interior one bit. I look at the road. If I need to see something it's right on the screen. The seat is not as good as the M3 for side bolstering, but I find them to be very comfortable.

I got the Tesla wall charger installed, and I get charged back up very quickly. I get about 44 miles of range per hour at home.

I was thinking about changing the wheels to allow for wider rubber, but it's honestly so good now I doubt it's necessary unless I take it to the track.

Also for me personally I didn't get this car because it is an EV, or to save money. I got it because it's fast and I think it looks great.

I don't disagree with your thoughts, having test driven one and considered one for purchase.
However, I find there are several items I either could not live with or missed with my m3:

1. driver/car/road interaction- I enjoy shifting myself on the dct, and I love the consistent engine response at speed, I even enjoy the traction or issues as I have learned to feather 1st gear and the car actually requires skill to drive fast.

2. on/off nature of electric acceleration- I like the crescendo of the engine vs the punch of torque on the ev's. There is no fun when the car requires no skill or interaction with the driver on daily driving, not even on the track.

3. high speed acceleration- model 3 is fast, to 60, then it is not.
per car and driver:
model 3
0-60 3.5
0-100 8.9
m3
0-60 3.8
0-100 8.5

between 60-100 the model 3 is .7 slower, which I felt on the 3 driving it, there is no high end punch, just torque for me. Most of my high speed driving is done on the highways and I don't drag launch my cars vs others on the light.

To me, the model 3 lacks things I need in a high performance sport sedan, but I agree that it is revolutionary and exciting- looking forward to the Taycan and the E Tron GT, I hope that they can make the ev more exciting to drive.

[InsanePineapple]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

3. high speed acceleration- model 3 is fast, to 60, then it is not.
per car and driver:
model 3
0-60 3.5
0-100 8.9
m3
0-60 3.8
0-100 8.5

between 60-100 the model 3 is .7 slower, which I felt on the 3 driving it, there is no high end punch, just torque for me. Most of my high speed driving is done on the highways and I don't drag launch my cars vs others on the light.

Car and Driver for some reason has one of the lowest tested 0-60 speeds for the P3. The official figure is 3.3, Road & Track tested 3.3 and Motor Trend got 3.2. In any case, it's true that due to the single gear, acceleration does drop off at higher speeds. If you enjoy shifting yourself (or other more manual interactions), then the P3 is not a good choice for you. But then again, people have said the same thing about DCT vs 6MT. In the end, it's all about personal preference. Do what feels good to you

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

I don't disagree with your thoughts, having test driven one and considered one for purchase.
However, I find there are several items I either could not live with or missed with my m3

To me, the model 3 lacks things I need in a sports car, but I agree that it is revolutionary and exciting- looking forward to the Taycan and the E Tron GT, I hope that they can make the ev more exciting to drive.

My $0.02, it's going to be a long wait due to the weight of EVs and the big torque usually meaning single speed gear box

I've said it before....get EV for commuting, (and treat the acceleration and potential to be used at track as a bonus) and get a traditional 6mt gas pure sports car for fun.

The always on feeling and low seating position and other small but important elements are tough to have in a big sedan based anything.