M3/M4 vs. Tesla Model 3 Performance

[JMon]

Originally Posted by LeeD31

Hey folks, just to put my 2 cents in on the conversation. I was a die hard BMW fan. I've owned several BMW's (335i, E92 M3, 1M, F80 M3, X3 M40i) The point is, I just got bored of owning BMW's and I wanted to try out something different. I got rid of my F80 M3 last year and got a Tesla Model 3 Performance (fully loaded) around December. I never test drove the vehicle once, so it was a big gamble for me and I didn't know what to expect.

Let's just say I was pleasantly surprised. I no longer have to worry about fueling up while I am out (I do it at home), it's ridiculously fast, handling is awesome, I really like the minimalist interior (less buttons and nooks to dust), the car is constantly being updated with new features (i.e sentry mode), and I love the regenerative braking. The biggest plus as well is the piece of mind that it won't have the same issues mechanically as an M car and maintenance on the vehicle is minimal. I could easily see myself put +250,000 kms on this car, whereas before when I owned BMW's, I was always limited the kms I drove on them.

I definitely recommend anyone who hasn't driven an electric vehicle to try out a Tesla Model 3.

Sooo what do you think of the Tesla model 3 seats vs the BMW M3? I personally didn't like them. For some reason they always felt hot.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by theox05

When I step into the M4 I feel like I'm getting into the cockpit of a jet fighter. The seats, the interior, the lighting, the sounds, the smells, the gauges, etc. I feel like I'm in a damn rocket ship ready for blast off.

LOL. You do know that an M4 has practically the same interior as a $32K 320i, right?

[minn19]

Originally Posted by FC4

LOL. You do know that an M4 has practically the same interior as a $32K 320i, right?

Lol no it isn’t, just the seats alone from shitty Dakota standard seats to Merino Sports/Comp seats/leather alone. Looks sort of yes, materials/feel not so much.

[JMon]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

Not taking away from the TM3 as it has its place for people that enjoy them. Not a car for me no matter how fast its 0-60 is. It would be a great point A to B car but I want my drives to feel special and have drama which the M3 delivers.

Not having sound or feeling the mechanic rumble of a machine just makes the overall experience lacking imo. Imagine having sex with your dream girl and she stays completely silent the entire time.... completely different experience I would think

Alan

You can know a lot more about what the tires and the rest of the car is doing if you listen! The tesla quiet is is truly a different experience. In that regard. Try running the F80 with the flaps closed. Is is pretty cool to hear everything including the turbos. I've done this on many occasions and it is quite interesting.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by FC4

LOL. You do know that an M4 has practically the same interior as a $32K 320i, right?

the CF trim, the seats with light up ///M logo, and the shift paddles are the only differences that I can think of between f30 320 and f80 m3 interior


Granted, I really like the f80 cloth seats a lot

[Blksnowflake]

Originally Posted by FC4

LOL. You do know that an M4 has practically the same interior as a $32K 320i, right?

Originally Posted by nicknaz

the CF trim, the seats with light up ///M logo, and the shift paddles are the only differences that I can think of between f30 320 and f80 m3 interior


Granted, I really like the f80 cloth seats a lot

The dash color, steering wheel, and the middle console are different as well, not to mention that when you press the ignition button the engine makes a very different noise. Also, let's not forget about the walk up to the car and the menacing appearance the M cars have. I've been given given shitty 3 series loaners and it's not even close. If you said a 340M-Sport I would have taken you serious, so my humble opinion is that this is a troll post. Next I'll be hearing that you can modify a 328 to be just like an F8X.
Needless to say after driving a variety of basic 3 series, the lowest trim I would chose is a 340M-Sport, anything less and I would prefer a standard MB C-class.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by FC4

LOL. You do know that an M4 has practically the same interior as a $32K 320i, right?

Well one is a 2dr and the 320i is a 4dr
Theyre about as different as you can get

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

. If you said a 340M-Sport I would have taken you serious, so my humble opinion is that this is a troll post.

Needless to say after driving a variety of basic 3 series, the lowest trim I would chose is a 340M-Sport, anything less and I would prefer a standard MB C-class.

The post was talking interior and a 320 with sport package comes with the m sport steering wheel.

Btw, I’m on my 3rd 3er (f30 335, f80 m3, f31 330) of this generation and have tried almost of the f3x lineup from how often my e89 z435 was in the shop. It’s not like I spent 1 day in a rented base model 320 to form my opinion.

I think the f3x “sportline” interiors with the red stitching is pretty cool, and close enough to how my f80 looked. The cloth and CF really were the only major standouts for me interior wise

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by JMon

Oh there are Tesla fans but in a much different orientation than most car folks. Maybe even more passionate about their cars than any other brand. I'd probably say the most passionate fans. ( even above VW Bug owners).

You are certainly right about the 'passionate' part, but in the words of Rodney Dangerfield:
"He really seams to care... About what... I have no idea"

Originally Posted by JMon

The Tesla cars are very special and quirky at the same time and the owners know it. Most don't even care that on the street and in the real world almost nothing can touch them performance wise. They are fans with a focus on things other than performance.

Indeed, it's those "other" things that I am still learning to NOT roll my eyes at:

1. Tesla owners don't EVER waive at each other.
   • I know BMW owners rarely do so these days, but I actually got a few condescending "what are you waiving at, schmuck" looks from other Tesla drivers.
2. It's very much "us" vs. "them" mentality among Teslarati.
   • "Them" are everyone else, including other EV owners.
   • Consequently they can't tolerate debate or criticism of any kind, as it immediately reverts to "us" vs. "them" showdown.
3. It's all about energy preservation, Prius style.
   • If you mention passing a slow-pock Tesla that's hogging the left lane for no reason, while you are having fun in Track Mode, more than a few will call you are a reckless driver, and ask for details with intention to report you to police.
   • Sadly, that's not an exaggeration.
   • I kid you not.

Originally Posted by theox05

There's no doubt that Tesla is a solid contender and the times it puts up are impressive and definitely competitive. The difference for me is subjective. When I step into the M4 I feel like I'm getting into the cockpit of a jet fighter. The seats, the interior, the lighting, the sounds, the smells, the gauges, etc. I feel like I'm in a damn rocket ship ready for blast off. I stepped into a friends Model 3 and I was sorely disappointed. To me it looked like a Motel 6 on the inside with a wall mounted tablet, subjectively, of course. When Tesla starts understanding more the "experience" of owning a high performance car and modeling their interior and exterior design around that, I'll definitely consider them for my next car. But for right now, I'll take my rocket ship.

Strange, as I feel exactly the opposite after 2K miles in TM3P and 29K miles in ///M3.

When I hop back into ///M3 after driving Model 3, BMW interior feels horribly dated, and ///M3's drive train under-powered.
BMW has a myriad of extraneous buttons in weird places, tiny iDrive screen with terrible UI, tons of settings to change at startup before you flip the car from default modes to something you would like to drive, etc, etc.

Those are all the things that TM3P does automatically, without asking, by sensing your cell phone nearby. No keys required, of any kind, just the cell phone. 95% of the things I do manually in ///M3, Tesla queues up automatically. And gets it right. And that's before you engage autopilot (AP) and marvel how no-one else had been able to get anything close to Tesla AP tech after 5+ years of trying.

Once you get the hang of that gorgeous touch screen Tesla UI, going back to a BMW feels the same as when I borrowed a friend E30 after driving F80 for a while. I had an E30, but boy did the interior not age well.

Originally Posted by JMon

Sooo what do you think of the Tesla model 3 seats vs the BMW M3? I personally didn't like them. For some reason they always felt hot.

That's one of the two things I don't like about TM3P - the seats are not supportive enough, and mostly squeeze me at the hips, and not the thighs or the shoulders. It's not terrible, but ///M3 seats are definitely more supportive.

The other is a tiny rear view mirror. The visibility angle through rear windshield is very narrow, and as you get tired and start slumping behind the wheel on a long drive, you no longer see well behind you without adjusting the rear view mirror. Some drive with rear-view camera projecting on the main screen, but I find that distracting.

YMMV,
a

[Mr Friese]

People can argue about the performance all they want, but at the end of the day, there is nothing inherently special about the TM3 outside of the battery architecture. The exterior, interior, materals, etc. are all simply pedestrian (and yes I have driven one).

I know some will be jumping on here screaming "but that's subjective and only your opinion!!!" and in some ways they are right. The TM3 looking like it does in the 30-40k configuration is FINE, but when you try to compete with the M3, C63, etc. people who buy those cars buy them because they are special, different and have a true sense of character.

That said, I'm honestly happy for the M3 guys on here that are able to overcome this and be happy transitioning to a TM3. For me though, it is a MAJOR misstep by Tesla and one that I could personally never get over. I suspect that this will change in the future once (if) they have more capital to work with, but until then, it makes the car a non-starter for me.

So I'll gladly admit defeat in 0-60 and even on some tracks, but at the end of the day, I want to be able to look at my car, smile and know that it's a special machine. Which the M3 does for me, but sadly the TM3 does not (yet).

[dusadus]

Took delivery of my Model 3 performance about a month ago and am surprised at how much I enjoy it. Yes I knew it was fast off the line, but I'm especially impressed at the quick steering, handling, particularly for daily driving, and driving position/view. If my F80 was DCT I would be selling it, no brainer. I do enjoy having a manual car so for now I'm keeping both the BMW M3 and the Tesla M3. That is, until I can replace the F80 with a P car.

BMW should revert back to the old days where they emphasize sportiness over comfort and technology. They simply can't compete if that is the battleground.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by dusadus

Took delivery of my Model 3 performance about a month ago and am surprised at how much I enjoy it. Yes I knew it was fast off the line, but I'm especially impressed at the quick steering, handling, particularly for daily driving, and driving position/view. If my F80 was DCT I would be selling it, no brainer. I do enjoy having a manual car so for now I'm keeping both the BMW M3 and the Tesla M3. That is, until I can replace the F80 with a P car.

BMW should revert back to the old days where they emphasize sportiness over comfort and technology. They simply can't compete if that is the battleground.

Congratulations!

(grabs popcorn)

😉

[Cars are the new horse]

Originally Posted by Mr Friese

People can argue about the performance all they want, but at the end of the day, there is nothing inherently special about the TM3 outside of the battery architecture. The exterior, interior, materals, etc. are all simply pedestrian (and yes I have driven one).

I know some will be jumping on here screaming "but that's subjective and only your opinion!!!" and in some ways they are right. The TM3 looking like it does in the 30-40k configuration is FINE, but when you try to compete with the M3, C63, etc. people who buy those cars buy them because they are special, different and have a true sense of character.

That said, I'm honestly happy for the M3 guys on here that are able to overcome this and be happy transitioning to a TM3. For me though, it is a MAJOR misstep by Tesla and one that I could personally never get over. I suspect that this will change in the future once (if) they have more capital to work with, but until then, it makes the car a non-starter for me.

So I'll gladly admit defeat in 0-60 and even on some tracks, but at the end of the day, I want to be able to look at my car, smile and know that it's a special machine. Which the M3 does for me, but sadly the TM3 does not (yet).

This.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by dusadus

If my F80 was DCT I would be selling it, no brainer. I do enjoy having a manual car so for now I'm keeping both the BMW M3 and the Tesla M3. That is, until I can replace the F80 with a P car

Congrats. I support the pure sports car + fast EV setup completely.

[BMWsully]

My wife just bought a base Model 3 two weeks ago and she loves it (in fairness I like it too, but not better than my M3cs. ).

That said, there is literally ZERO discernible difference between my wife's 37k base model and someone else's 70k perf model. This would drive me to the point of insanity, but I guess it doesn't bother others.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by BMWsully

That said, there is literally ZERO discernible difference between my wife's 37k base model and someone else's 70k perf model.

Actually, there are six.

[f80_sturmgewehr]

Sorry, I like cars that make noise

[BMWsully]

Originally Posted by FC4

Actually, there are six.

Not sure if you guys are really serious, but if you are, then I have some snake oil to sell you...

I'm not trying to bust stones either, I like the Model 3 (hell we own one). But calipers and a small spoiler are not meaningful differentiators in my book.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by BMWsully

That said, there is literally ZERO discernible difference between my wife's 37k base model and someone else's 70k perf model. This would drive me to the point of insanity, but I guess it doesn't bother others.

Congrats on the model 3

isn’t that good for you that there’s no difference? It’s as if you got a 320 and no one can tell it isn’t an m3

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by Mr Friese

People can argue about the performance all they want, but at the end of the day, there is nothing inherently special about the TM3 outside of the battery architecture.

Other than performance, handling, and ergonomics, what else is there to argue about?

On 2 out of 3 of the above, TM3 wins hands down. Third is a tie.

Originally Posted by Mr Friese

The exterior, interior, materals, etc. are all simply pedestrian (and yes I have driven one).

Pedestrian[ puh-des-tree-uh n ] adjective

• lacking in vitality, imagination, distinction, etc.; commonplace; prosaic or dull

Tesla interior is the exactly opposite of the definition of pedestrian.
It's unique, striking, highly ergonomic and innovative.

In the exterior, form follows function, but still conforms to the clean and minimalist style. I love it more and more.

Originally Posted by Mr Friese

I know some will be jumping on here screaming "but that's subjective and only your opinion!!!" and in some ways they are right. The TM3 looking like it does in the 30-40k configuration is FINE, but when you try to compete with the M3, C63, etc. people who buy those cars buy them because they are special, different and have a true sense of character.

Yep, and Tesla has it in spades over BMW these days.
Sadly.

Originally Posted by Mr Friese

So I'll gladly admit defeat in 0-60 and even on some tracks, but at the end of the day, I want to be able to look at my car, smile and know that it's a special machine. Which the M3 does for me, but sadly the TM3 does not (yet).

To each his own.
I look at both, side-by-side in my garage, every morning (unless my wife already snagged the Tesla). At least for now.

BMW M3 exterior is more nuanced vs. clean TM3 lines, and I do still love my Sakhir Orange color choice.
Once I touch the door handle, however, it's Tesla. No contest.
From no key required, to features, to tech, to ergonomics, to sound quality, to performance, to driver engagement.

It's what BMW ///M3's are supposed to make you feel, but have utterly failed to keep up.

Originally Posted by dusadus

Took delivery of my Model 3 performance about a month ago and am surprised at how much I enjoy it. [...] BMW should revert back to the old days where they emphasize sportiness over comfort and technology. They simply can't compete if that is the battleground.

BMW has to do something to differentiate itself from the crowd.
I'm not sure it can.

It can't differentiate on tech, since it can't source unique features from common global tier-1 suppliers - all automakers now get the same tech. Germans suck at software (SAP is the best they can do, right?). It gave up investing in EV tech, and is now sucking up to Daimler to share autonomous development efforts.

AMG and Quadrifoglio now offer better performance sedans than ///M does.
So what's left?

Convertibles, maybe?


Trucks?

Originally Posted by nicknaz

isn’t that good for you that there’s no difference? It’s as if you got a 320 and no one can tell it isn’t an m3

Just like in the E36 days I had an ///M (no badge), and my wife had a 328i.
Very few people, outside of BMW CCA membership base, could tell the two apart. There were a few subtle ways to differentiate the two, but most normal people couldn't.

Didn't bother me one bit.
I kinda loved it that way, actually.


a

[FC4]

Originally Posted by BMWsully

Not sure if you guys are really serious, but if you are, then I have some snake oil to sell you...

I'm not trying to bust stones either, I like the Model 3 (hell we own one). But calipers and a small spoiler are not meaningful differentiators in my book.

Oh, okay. So is it "literally ZERO discernible difference" or no "meaningful" difference between the two?

Practically any given model of car has no "meaningful differentiators" between various trim levels going by the same logic.

[BMWsully]

Originally Posted by FC4

Oh, okay. So is it "literally ZERO discernible difference" or no "meaningful" difference between the two?

Practically any given model of car has no "meaningful differentiators" between various trim levels going by the same logic.

No reason to get defensive, it's simply an opinion.

That said, do you really think the M3 resembles the standard 3 series as much as the TM3P resembles the standard TM3?