Official BMW M3 M4 Specs: 430HP, 369+ LB-FT, Under 3306 Pounds, Bi-Turbo Inline 6 Cyl

[Jason]

UPDATE:

Added a ton of official track footage from the Nurburgring in the Videos section of guide (see first post).

Best live look and listen yet at the M3 and M4 prototypes.

[paddy335]

[QUOTE=buildbright;14724551] I think its silly to compare any ring time. I think its funny people bragging about track times they didn't run.

/QUOTE]

+1!!

All you are bragging about is what a manufacturer tells you their car can do round the ring,

and they are never really very clear about what they changed on the car to do the time (a la Nissan),

and the time is always done by a test/race driver,

and they have virtually no relevance to the way 99.99% of the cars will ever be used.

p.s. Way of topic, but I trust all fans of the Ring have checked out video of Stefan Bellof's ring record in a Porsche 956 Group C....6.11mins.
EPIC. MAD.

[bplewis24]

Is this back to being an M3/M4 thread or is it still the 911 vs The World still?

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by m3evobr

Yes I hear you. The 2009 test was a 3.8 car, but not RS ... anyway.
For the torque you like, most likely a FI car, or a BIG V8 any of the mortals cars like Scud, GT3 RS etc, are in the same range. Hi Rev engines and in order to be able to produce Hi HP they will have compromise if they are NA or not big displacement engines.
I'm not a fan of the 991 myself as I think the car lost a lot ... but for some it gained a lot, just perspective. I think the older I get I see more myself a lot more interested in the older cars, with very little technology.
I always liked cars that were challenging to drive (not that a GT3 is) and have to say that the older cars with shorter wheelbase and no assist of any kind are a blast to drive, and those really prove who can or can't drive.

I'm looking forward to the M4. Just got a call from my dealer saying that no info or can't take orders yet as they don't have production dates, but assured me that I could get their first ones.

My idea is to get a early car or if not possible just take Euro delivery and have some fun with it in Europe for a couple of weeks during spring time.

I agree with you completely. I happen to like the new 991 but it does not speak to me like older models have. I love the feeling of older well balanced cars. Something very organic and fulfilling about them.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by Boss330

BMW has said well beyond 500Nm/369lb.ft

Well, the said, "substantially more than..."

[M3 Montreal]

Maybe I missed this question in the 28 pages but...

How did they go about knocking off so much weight from the 435 to the M4? It's about 300 pounds lighter if I'm not mistaken?

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by buildbright

8 seconds on 13 mile track is not that big a gap specially with the ever changing weather conditions. Not to mention using different drivers, and tires. If you ever raced the ring you would understand.

This is why I think comparing ring times is silly. Because by this logic you have, the 911 is no where near as good as a GTR.

Yes the e9# M3 lacks low end tq its one of the biggest criticisms of the car. I just drove (4) 911 variants on a race track yes it lacks low end torque.

8 seconds on the Ring is an eternity no matter what, and 15 seconds, well.... Who's to say the 911 time wasnt done in wet conditions? Fact is, the regular GT3 is 8 sec faster and the GT3 RS is 15 seconds faster. Again, not sure if youve ever tracked, but even on a 2 minute lap, a 1 sec advantage is huge. Here, we are talking about 1 second faster per minute for the GT3 and ~2 seconds faster per mininute for the RS.

The GTR is a great car, but if you compare Sport Auto tests, they are not nearly as fast as Nissan's claims.

I dont feel the M3 nor the 911 lack tq, theyre high revving motors tq is made through gearing. You want big tq #s, but FI or a big displacment motor like the Vettes or AMGs.

[Koldun]

Liking the specs, but it still sounds like a vibrator.

[Koldun]

Originally Posted by M3 Montreal

Maybe I missed this question in the 28 pages but...

How did they go about knocking off so much weight from the 435 to the M4? It's about 300 pounds lighter if I'm not mistaken?

Or, you know, you could just take 10 seconds to read the original post.

It is ~80 kg/176 lbs lighter when similarly equipped, according to BMW.

Engine (20lbs lighter)
closed-decked crankcase (4.4 lbs lighter)
Low-weight magnesium oil sump (2.2 lbs lighter)
New manual transmission (26.4 pounds lighter, I guess DCT owners won't realize these savings?)
Double-joint spring strut front axle (saves 11 pounds)
New five-link rear axle made from forged aluminum (saves 6.6 pounds)
CFRP drive shaft (40% weight savings over previous M3)
CFRP roof bow
Carbon fiber trunk for M4 (11 pounds weight savings)
CFRP front strut brace standard (weighs just 3.3 pounds)
Front fenders and hood made from aluminum

I guess the rest comes from good ol' fashioned Gherman Engineehring. Oh yah.

[trahsub]

Random side question, are the white jackets/fleeces the drivers are wearing for sale anywhere? I want one.

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by Koldun

Liking the specs, but it still sounds like a vibrator.

I won't even ask how you know that.

[Koldun]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

I won't even ask how you know that.

Go into your wife or girlfriend's sock drawer, take out her "relationship aid", turn it on, and put it on a counter. Rattle rattle, buzz buzz!

Here's another visual and aural aid.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by Koldun

Or, you know, you could just take 10 seconds to read the original post.

It is ~80 kg/176 lbs lighter when similarly equipped, according to BMW.

Engine (20lbs lighter)
closed-decked crankcase (4.4 lbs lighter)
Low-weight magnesium oil sump (2.2 lbs lighter)
New manual transmission (26.4 pounds lighter, I guess DCT owners won't realize these savings?)
Double-joint spring strut front axle (saves 11 pounds)
New five-link rear axle made from forged aluminum (saves 6.6 pounds)
CFRP drive shaft (40% weight savings over previous M3)
CFRP roof bow
Carbon fiber trunk for M4 (11 pounds weight savings)
CFRP front strut brace standard (weighs just 3.3 pounds)
Front fenders and hood made from aluminum

I'm sure the electrically-assisted steering saved a bit, too.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Koldun

Or, you know, you could just take 10 seconds to read the original post.

It is ~80 kg/176 lbs lighter when similarly equipped, according to BMW.

Engine (20lbs lighter)
closed-decked crankcase (4.4 lbs lighter)
Low-weight magnesium oil sump (2.2 lbs lighter)
New manual transmission (26.4 pounds lighter, I guess DCT owners won't realize these savings?)
Double-joint spring strut front axle (saves 11 pounds)
New five-link rear axle made from forged aluminum (saves 6.6 pounds)
CFRP drive shaft (40% weight savings over previous M3)
CFRP roof bow
Carbon fiber trunk for M4 (11 pounds weight savings)
CFRP front strut brace standard (weighs just 3.3 pounds)
Front fenders and hood made from aluminum

I guess the rest comes from good ol' fashioned Gherman Engineehring. Oh yah.

So it looks like almost half the weight savings are gone with a DCT equipped car based on the fact that DCT weights ~50 lbs and 27 lbs of weight reduction were via 6mt transmission.

I also wonder if this weight is a USA spec'd car since our cars have different regulations and usually only get heavier because of it.

Will be very interested to see what these cars weigh in at once R&T or any other mag gets a hold of a US car.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I believe I just won a bet.

I'd really love to see a callout thread where all the V6 conspiracy nuts are publicly named and shamed lol.

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by Koldun

Go into your wife or girlfriend's sock drawer, take out her "relationship aid", turn it on, and put it on a counter. Rattle rattle, buzz buzz!

Here's another visual and aural aid.

There are some things I just don't want to know. Besides, that light saber sounded more like a Hybrid.

[bradleyland]

Damn, the audio analysis swamp2 came up with really nailed the redline estimate.

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

8 seconds on the Ring is an eternity no matter what, and 15 seconds, well.... Who's to say the 911 time wasnt done in wet conditions? Fact is, the regular GT3 is 8 sec faster and the GT3 RS is 15 seconds faster. Again, not sure if youve ever tracked, but even on a 2 minute lap, a 1 sec advantage is huge. Here, we are talking about 1 second faster per minute for the GT3 and ~2 seconds faster per mininute for the RS.

The GTR is a great car, but if you compare Sport Auto tests, they are not nearly as fast as Nissan's claims.

I dont feel the M3 nor the 911 lack tq, theyre high revving motors tq is made through gearing. You want big tq #s, but FI or a big displacment motor like the Vettes or AMGs.

Fact is one professional driver to the next can have a 8 second gap on a 13 mile track. You cant compare lap times taken on different days, drivers, and conditions. Also peak lap times mean nothing its consistent lap times that win a race. Lastly the ring times are not equal the track configurations differ depending on who's testing and what day it is.

Ring Times mean very little period. Every pro driver I have talked to agrees.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

So it looks like almost half the weight savings are gone with a DCT equipped car based on the fact that DCT weights ~50 lbs and 27 lbs of weight reduction were via 6mt transmission.

I also wonder if this weight is a USA spec'd car since our cars have different regulations and usually only get heavier because of it.

Will be very interested to see what these cars weigh in at once R&T or any other mag gets a hold of a US car.

How can half of the weight savings be gone with a DCT car? 27lbs isn't half of 175lbs (80kg), it's 15%...

DCT weighs around 175lbs (80kg) and is the same weight as previous gen DCT (new one has a 700Nm limit as opposed to 600Nm of old one). So a DCT car won't have that 27lbs weight reduction apparently. But 27lbs is only 15% of the saved weight anyway.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Boss330

How can half of the weight savings be gone with a DCT car? 27lbs isn't half of 175lbs (80kg), it's 15%...

DCT weighs around 175lbs (80kg) and is the same weight as previous gen DCT (new one has a 700Nm limit as opposed to 600Nm of old one). So a DCT car won't have that 27lbs weight reduction apparently. But 27lbs is only 15% of the saved weight anyway.

OK, what I was saying was that almost half (88 lbs is half) of the weight savings (total 176 lbs) will be negated by adding DCT. DCT weighs about 50 lbs MORE than the previous 6mt in the e9x m3. The DCT transmission did not get lighter itself, so adding DCT will not only negate the 27 lbs saved on the manual transmission, but then also add the 50 additional lbs it weighs over the manual transmission. So that mean that adding DCT will add 27+50, or 77 lbs, which is almost half.

My skepticism is that a fully loaded f82 m4 (meaning DCT, nav, 19s, upgraded sound, EDC, sunroof, full leather) will be a negligible difference from the e92 m3 similarly equipped.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

OK, what I was saying was that almost half (88 lbs is half) of the weight savings (total 176 lbs) will be negated by adding DCT. DCT weighs about 50 lbs MORE than the previous 6mt in the e9x m3. The DCT transmission did not get lighter itself, so adding DCT will not only negate the 27 lbs saved on the manual transmission, but then also add the 50 additional lbs it weighs over the manual transmission. So that mean that adding DCT will add 27+50, or 77 lbs, which is almost half.

My skepticism is that a fully loaded f82 m4 (meaning DCT, nav, 19s, upgraded sound, EDC, sunroof, full leather) will be a negligible difference from the e92 m3 similarly equipped.

IMHO your calculations don't quite add up...

Don't forget to add the weight of the DCT to the weight of the E9x M3 in your calculation, and not only to the F8x...

A similarly equipped F8x without DCT will be 176lbs/80kg lighter than a E9x without DCT.

A similarly equipped F8x with DCT will still be at least 148lbs/67kg (175-27=148) lighter than a E9x with DCT.


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[Chill72]

Dear 1M and E9X M3 owners, please stop justifying your purchases in this thread. Nobody cares that you prefer N/A engine or that your 1M is close to the same specs compared to M4.

To put it simply, new M3/4 will dominate your 1M or E9X M3...end of story!

Other than that I enjoyed this thread very much.