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      10-25-2013, 08:16 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Based on history and DNA you are probably correct. On the other hand the W205 has the potential to be both a little lighter and significantly more powerful than the current car. My guess is that their benchmark (to beat) is there own 507 model today. It's going to be a quick car.
As I postet before:

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According to german car magazines the new standard C205 would be 80 to 100kg lighter than the recent C204 ... reached by making many parts out of aluminium instead of steal - hood, fenders, doors and the trunk.
... it seems relativ clear that also the base C205 will be much lighter ... since all german car magazines wrote this in their C Class presentations articles, I am sure that this will be happen.
About the C63 some sources wrote that there would be more weight savings over the base car ... probably carbon-compount material for hood, roof and trunk .. I don´t know the weight of the M157 engine but I think, it won´t be extremly heavy vs. the NA M156

So I fear BMW M-GmbH has taken the wrong decision to bring the 80kg lighter M3/M4 with an 430hp 3.0ltr.R6 TT ... also the current C63 is not too far back on track vs. the E9xM3 - nearer than all precessors.
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      10-25-2013, 10:15 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT View Post
As I postet before:

... it seems relativ clear that also the base C205 will be much lighter ... since all german car magazines wrote this in their C Class presentations articles, I am sure that this will be happen.
Sure. But as we know from all the M3/4 discussion and speculation, nothing is a sure bet until we get official info.

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So I fear BMW M-GmbH has taken the wrong decision to bring the 80kg lighter M3/M4 with an 430hp 3.0ltr.R6 TT ...
Remains to be seen. I still have belief in BMW and M. Looking forward to seeing how the F82 does against the 507 first, and then of course the W205 AMG when it arrives (sedan in late 2014, coupe in 2015 I think).

Quote:
also the current C63 is not too far back on track vs. the E9xM3 - nearer than all precessors.
Definitely agree that the competition is closing the gap.
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      10-25-2013, 10:21 AM   #47
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I expect the Lexus RC-f and the C-AMG to be extremely competitive when they come out. I think it will come down to nuance and interior/exterior aesthetics. If Audi comes through on their weight reduction goal with the S4/5 and then RS4/5 then that will be another brand to consider.

It's a good time to like performance sedans and coupes.
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      10-25-2013, 01:10 PM   #48
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^^^ ATS-V has potential as well.
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      10-25-2013, 01:23 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
^^^ ATS-V has potential as well.
I agree especially since the underlying chassis has garnered near universal praise. I'm not a big fan of the looks though.
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      10-25-2013, 02:01 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Remains to be seen. I still have belief in BMW and M. Looking forward to seeing how the F82 does against the 507 first, and then of course the W205 AMG when it arrives (sedan in late 2014, coupe in 2015 I think.
I think the regular C205 will debut in NAIAS 2014 together with M3/M4 and the C63 sedan short time later ... guess Geneva 2014 as usual by AMG.

Because of this I beleave it gets the M157, because the M177/178 Debüts late 2014 with the GT.
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      10-26-2013, 11:38 AM   #51
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One of these two will be my next car. Recently looked at the E63S at our local dealership, but I just can't imagine paying 100K for a car that's not a 911 and I need four doors. That car is an absolute beast though!!! Mercedes is making great cars now. Its good for us, the consumer, as competition yields better results. I do think that in the northeast, the merc will outsell the M4 solely because of the AWD. This fact alone will likely steer me towards the Merc, even though I have always wanted a M3 (now M4). I know its sac relig but if the M4 was to have an AWD option, I would already have an order in. If Porsche/Lambo/Merc/and even Ferrari are doing it, why not the M division???
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      10-26-2013, 11:51 AM   #52
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"Just as its rivals downsize to high-performance fours and sixes, AMG is reportedly working on a brand new V-8, albeit one smaller than we’re used to seeing from the official tuner to Mercedes-Benz."

RESPECT

i am really leaning towards the new C63 AMG for next car
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      10-26-2013, 12:01 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nal13 View Post
I do think that in the northeast, the merc will outsell the M4 solely because of the AWD. This fact alone will likely steer me towards the Merc, even though I have always wanted a M3 (now M4). I know its sac relig but if the M4 was to have an AWD option, I would already have an order in. If Porsche/Lambo/Merc/and even Ferrari are doing it, why not the M division???
If you need 4 doors you would want the M3, not M4. I agree that an all-wheel drive version would not be a bad thing for many if it could be done in a more balanced handling way than Audi.
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      10-26-2013, 10:33 PM   #54
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it will most likely sound better than the m3/4 which is a strong selling point
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      10-27-2013, 12:33 PM   #55
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Yeh I'm a little confused too with all the noise on the upcoming C63...I really want to get my order in for an M4 but I guess I'll wait a little till I get some clearer pics and info on the next gen C63...
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      10-27-2013, 11:51 PM   #56
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2015 C63 has jumped to the top of my list for my daily car. With the reports of significant weight loss, 4.0L twin turbo, and change to double wishbone suspension. The new interior just looks too nice to pass up. Burmester stereo would be very nice.

A stripper M235i or even 228i M-sport, is now on the list for weekend track car.
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      10-28-2013, 01:15 AM   #57
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competition is always good thing for us consumers
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      10-28-2013, 10:59 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Blipit_ View Post
2015 C63 has jumped to the top of my list for my daily car. With the reports of significant weight loss, 4.0L twin turbo, and change to double wishbone suspension. The new interior just looks too nice to pass up. Burmester stereo would be very nice.
Close to 500 hp, reportedly. Unfortunately, only with auto and as a sedan (wagon to follow), it sounds like.
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      10-28-2013, 12:30 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
^^^ ATS-V has potential as well.
Very big potential ... specially if it would get the brand new Cadillac 4.5ltr.V8 BiTurbo.

Really not sure about the C63 engine ... even Worldcarfans says in one post. 5.5ltr.V8 M157 and in an other 4.0ltr.V8 M177/178. But I guess minimum 500hp for sure, because I think the C63 Edition 507 is/forms the way they would go.

Last edited by BMW M3 CRT; 10-28-2013 at 12:35 PM.
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      10-28-2013, 01:46 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
Close to 500 hp, reportedly. Unfortunately, only with auto and as a sedan (wagon to follow), it sounds like.
when you say auto do you mean some type of DCT? that that a huge difference
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      10-28-2013, 03:48 PM   #61
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when you say auto do you mean some type of DCT? that that a huge difference
I'd assume at the very least it would have a transmission as good as the CLA45 AMG which is the " 7 speedSpeedshift DCT". Or am I crazy?
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      10-28-2013, 05:11 PM   #62
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The interior on the C is nice...just that stupid nav screen, though...

The C63 wil be a rocket. The M4 will be that as well, just less so.
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      10-28-2013, 05:22 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by tdizzle View Post
I'd assume at the very least it would have a transmission as good as the CLA45 AMG which is the " 7 speedSpeedshift DCT". Or am I crazy?
Not crazy, but not sure. The current car has the AMG SpeeedShift MCT, which uses a wet clutch instead of torque convertor, but it's not a DCT.

"The MCT transmission is essentially the 7G-Tronic automatic transmission without a torque converter. Instead of a torque converter, it uses a compact wet startup clutch to launch the car from a stop, and also supports computer-controlled double declutching. The MCT (Multi-Clutch Technology) acronym refers to a planetary (automatic) transmission’s multiple clutches and bands for each gear.

The MCT is fitted with four drive modes: “C” (Comfort), “S” (Sport), “S+” (Sport plus) and “M” (Manual) and boasts 100 millisecond shifts in "M" and "S+" modes. MCT-equipped cars are also fitted with the new AMG DRIVE UNIT with innovative Race Start function. The AMG DRIVE UNIT is the central control unit for the AMG SPEEDSHIFT MCT 7-speed sports transmission and all driving dynamics functions. The driver can change gears either using the selector lever, or by nudging the steering-wheel shift paddles. The new Race start Function is a launch control system which enables the driver to call on maximum acceleration, while ensuring optimum traction of the driven wheels."

I assume the DCT in the CLA is designed for FWD and is not usable in that form for a RWD car, or may not have the torque capacity.
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      10-28-2013, 06:19 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
Not crazy, but not sure. The current car has the AMG SpeeedShift MCT, which uses a wet clutch instead of torque convertor, but it's not a DCT.

I assume the DCT in the CLA is designed for FWD and is not usable in that form for a RWD car, or may not have the torque capacity.
MB also has a 7 speed DCT version for their very expensive RWD SLS AMG model which can handle high HP and Torque.
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      10-28-2013, 11:59 PM   #65
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Unlike their RWD automatic transmission (and related MCT), Mercedes sources the DCT in the SLS from Getrag (which incidentally is the same supplier BMW uses for their DCTs). So if their target market demands a DCT they will simply find one that will do the job.
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      10-29-2013, 10:19 AM   #66
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Rwd happiness!

But i hope the c63 looks good this time around. The front looked nice after the refresh but the back just looked boring still. Need to make the back end look nice if they decide to have it smoke everything in its class out there.
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