2016 C&D Lightning Lap Results (M4 GTS and M2 included)

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by chris719

I am not terribly surprised about the M4 GTS. The previous GTS was not competitive either.

You're right, it was competitive in its class though. compact luxury sports sedan/coupe.

only 150 available and all sold.

People have short memories.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by vladberca

C7 is such a win for Corvette!
Anyone knows the lap time of AMG GT S? Curious about the numbers vs M4 GTS and Ford 350R...

AMG GT S 2:51

This is a chart from last time- none of the new cars are included.



http://www.caranddriver.com/features...d-more-feature

[Lorde]

So you're telling me I should buy the Grand Sport.

[CruzM3]

Originally Posted by e92_m3

Hmm, I missed reading your post. Care to elaborate on this?

Some GT350 owners are complaining that there is a gap forming between the rear taillights and the bumper. It is said to be due to the fact that the rear bumper is to heavy for the supports. I've read about it on various Mustang forums.

[adc]

Originally Posted by minn19

As a current GT350 owner I agree with this. I don't have the bumper issue though and gaps are good so far. It has been easier to overlook because the driving experience is so good.

I've seen a different type of problem with a GT350 track pack right in front of me, at VIR. Blew heavy smoke from the engine compartment area, owner said it was the oil filter slightly unscrewing itself due to engine vibrations at high RPM.


As nice as it looks and sounds (brilliant!), I'd get a C7 Grand Sport for my money. Has looks, sound, and the best performance you can get south of a McLaren or GT3 RS.

And if I could spring the next category I'd go for a 570S. Looks amazing in person, saw my first one at Katie's Cars and Coffee.



Some have commented about the new pavement at VIR. I found that, despite the increased track exit surface area, the overall grip seemed less than the old track (pre all paving efforts). I don't know if the lap times back this up or not, but I tracked at VIR 2 weeks after they last repaved it, mid August.

[TSM330i]

Originally Posted by mzdial

I know they were there testing May 30-June 1..

That's when they test every year.

[CanAutM3]

Corvettes have been over-achievers for their price point for quite a long time. A college buddy of mine had a C4 ZR-1 in the early nineties, what a beast that was for the time.

Two of my very good track buddies run practically stock C5 Z06 (except for tires, pads and some improved cooling) and lap in the same time bracket as I do with my 2015 M4, which makes for fun sessions together. Quite impressive for 15 year old cars . Naturally the C6 Z06 is a step above and the entire C7 line-up is even more so. I am not surprised to see the C7 GS up there at all .

[minn19]

Originally Posted by adc

I've seen a different type of problem with a GT350 track pack right in front of me, at VIR. Blew heavy smoke from the engine compartment area, owner said it was the oil filter slightly unscrewing itself due to engine vibrations at high RPM.


As nice as it looks and sounds (brilliant!), I'd get a C7 Grand Sport for my money. Has looks, sound, and the best performance you can get south of a McLaren or GT3 RS.

And if I could spring the next category I'd go for a 570S. Looks amazing in person, saw my first one at Katie's Cars and Coffee.



Some have commented about the new pavement at VIR. I found that, despite the increased track exit surface area, the overall grip seemed less than the old track (pre all paving efforts). I don't know if the lap times back this up or not, but I tracked at VIR 2 weeks after they last repaved it, mid August.

Yah the oil filter loosening up has been an issue. A lot of dealers aren't torquing them correctly (yup, it needs to be torqued to 18lbs).

Also, some that are torqued correctly have been still loosening up after a few thousand miles. The Voodoo has a lot of vibrations. There are new threads on the Mustang forums about wiring a safety harness/strap to the filter.

If I didn't need a backseat, I would be looking at a GS Vette. As useless as the backseat is in the GT350, it still works fine to pick up my daughter from school. Also my family (three of us) can still take to dinner and errands etc.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by admranger

Thanks for posting this. Any numbers on the E9xM3? Would like to think it is somewhere around the M2 time, but fear it is behind it...thus ending my will to live.

Was the Porsche GT3 on Pilot Sport Cups? When Chris Harris ran the GT3 v the McLaren the McLaren killed it on street tires while the GT3 was on cups! Much tighter circuit than VIR though iirc.

A few factors for you to consider

The E9x was tested with old pavement
PS2 vs PSS tires
DCT tranny they continued to whine about because it would not obey their commands

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

DCT tranny they continued to whine about because it would not obey their commands

The early DCT software on the E9X was really annoying for that. It sometimes refused to downshift if you were slightly too early on the paddle, it pissed me off at the track . But that got fixed early on with a software update.

[auggiem3]

Originally Posted by JoosyJoos

Does it specify the test date?

VIR was repaved approximately 1 month ago. That will definitely affect the year-over-year comparisons. It was also repaved 2 years ago if I recall but recent accounts have the new pavement as being less grippy. There are a few interviews from the IMSA race mentioning it.

Just food for thought.

Ignoring those inconsistencies:

2016 M4 GTS - 2:52.9
2015 M4 - 3:00.7

2016 M2 - 3:01.9
2014 M235i - 3:07.2

2011 1M - 3:06.6
2008 135i coupe - 3:13.7

2007 Z4 M coupe - 3:11.7

I think the comparisons of similar chassis is the most interesting part. Good news is, they're clearly improving. Also interesting that the non-M to M jump seems to be good for about 5-6 seconds with both the 1 series to 1M and 2 series to M2.

I just wish they ran the full course instead of the grand course so I could compare it to my BMWCCA Club Racing IP car.

Exactly - agree.

[blinkme323]

Is it too much to ask for an M3 ZCP to be thrown in the mix?

[OhioRiderAaron]

Camaro 1LE and Corvette GS are the winners IMO. Relatively affordable and obtainable vehicles (meaning there's not a huge waiting list or markup to get one). The NSX is the loser, and the GTS time is just "meh" to me. Hopefully the next gen. BMW M3 chassis/suspension get vastly improved.

[FriskyDingo]

Rather embarassing showings by the Germans. Especially the GTS. I couldn't even begin to justify that car's price.

[Nkc]

4 pages of this and not a mention of the ACR.

This car, no matter what it does, never gets the respect it deserves.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Nkc

4 pages of this and not a mention of the ACR.

This car, no matter what it does, never gets the respect it deserves.

Seriously.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by Nkc

4 pages of this and not a mention of the ACR.

This car, no matter what it does, never gets the respect it deserves.

true, but it is discontinued and can you even buy a new one at this point?

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by FriskyDingo

Rather embarassing showings by the Germans. Especially the GTS. I couldn't even begin to justify that car's price.

hard to justify any limited edition models.

allocated 991 911 R's are selling for almost 1 million dollars... is that justified?

simply what the market is willing to bear.

[adc]

Originally Posted by minn19

Yah the oil filter loosening up has been an issue. A lot of dealers aren't torquing them correctly (yup, it needs to be torqued to 18lbs).

Also, some that are torqued correctly have been still loosening up after a few thousand miles. The Voodoo has a lot of vibrations. There are new threads on the Mustang forums about wiring a safety harness/strap to the filter.

If I didn't need a backseat, I would be looking at a GS Vette. As useless as the backseat is in the GT350, it still works fine to pick up my daughter from school. Also my family (three of us) can still take to dinner and errands etc.

While I still need a back seat, for me the M3 is better suited to dual purpose than the GT350, and not any appreciably slower on track. At least at my skill level.

I mean unless the price difference is an issue of course.

[FriskyDingo]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

hard to justify any limited edition models.

allocated 991 911 R's are selling for almost 1 million dollars... is that justified?

simply what the market is willing to bear.

I'm strictly speaking from an MSRP standpoint. I wholeheartedly believe the 911 R is worth it's MSRP. Do I think it's worth a mil? No, and I'm huge Porsche fan.

But I don't even think the GTS is worth it's MSRP. It's inexcusable to me that it can be walked on by a car costing half as much, and only be marginally faster than a car that's less than a third the cost.

Just my opinion.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by adc

While I still need a back seat, for me the M3 is better suited to dual purpose than the GT350, and not any appreciably slower on track. At least at my skill level.

I mean unless the price difference is an issue of course.

wait for one of these:

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by FriskyDingo

I'm strictly speaking from an MSRP standpoint. I wholeheartedly believe the 911 R is worth it's MSRP. Do I think it's worth a mil? No, and I'm huge Porsche fan.

But I don't even think the GTS is worth it's MSRP. It's inexcusable to me that it can be walked on by a car costing half as much, and only be marginally faster than a car that's less than a third the cost.

Just my opinion.

good point.