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      05-09-2021, 12:23 PM   #2245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R N M View Post
Thanks for write up.
The EL sounds tinny in certain videos and the then you have the burbles which prevents from hearing the true sound.

I like that the single is more of a deeper tone at all times but as you state doesnít have the nice smooth sound that EL provides.

Do you get more sound inside on throttle with single or EL?
I have the resonated EL, so it's pretty quiet. Definitely more sound with the single, but it's kind of more of the same stock sound. Just without the rasp and a little deeper.

Mine never sounds tinny with the resonators. The non-res can definitely be tinny at times. Mostly when not fully warm. I think a lot of people make videos of the car when it's cold, or not fully warm, and that makes a night and day difference in sound with these cars.
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      05-09-2021, 01:24 PM   #2246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000hp View Post
I have the resonated EL, so it's pretty quiet. Definitely more sound with the single, but it's kind of more of the same stock sound. Just without the rasp and a little deeper.

Mine never sounds tinny with the resonators. The non-res can definitely be tinny at times. Mostly when not fully warm. I think a lot of people make videos of the car when it's cold, or not fully warm, and that makes a night and day difference in sound with these cars.
Agreed. My non res MPE will sound like a trumpet when cold. It takes a few minutes of driving (not just idling) to get it warm.
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      05-09-2021, 10:46 PM   #2247
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Ran the setup at the track yesterday, some thoughts:

1. It absolutely screamed and sounded amazing - Thunderhill was primarily 3rd/4th gear and in gear sound is incredible. On the front straight you can hit 3-4-5 at WOT which itself was insane with this exhaust setup, straight up banshee scream.

2. Had the valves open, and with the windows down it was more than loud enough to hear through my helmet and earpiece. Going 110+ with the windows down and an instructor in my ear and still the exhaust was cutting through all of that should give you an idea of how loud this things actually gets even with stock DPs

3. Looks like this heat cycle loosened some bolts, getting some rattle again on cold start... have to retighten them for the 4th or 5th time now -_-

I have some video from the stands but unfortunately it was possibly the windiest day Thunderhill has seen (a few people familiar with the course in my vicinity were commenting on how they’ve never had that kind of wind at Thunderhill), those videos are completely inaudible due to the wind noise overpowering the cell phone mic.

EDIT: I did some thinking and watched some POV track videos, it’s still quite distinct from BMW single turbos (still contend it’s a bit like N55 + Nissan GTR) but it has a very similar quality and pitch evolution across the rev range to the 991.2 C & CS or 992 C & C2S (basically the standard turbo engines they started using). It doesn’t sound like a Porsche turbo flat-6 (nor should it really), but if you could imagine that engine in POV track vids sounding a little more like N55, that is what it sounds like WOT from the drivers seat. Like it starts N55/B58-esque but climbs to a higher pitch more rapidly
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      05-11-2021, 03:08 AM   #2248
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My car is pretty loud right now with resonated downpipes, non resonated equal length and mad-max muffler.... but i want it a little louder...my options:

1. switch out the catless resonated DPs for VRSF fully catless DPs and keep the non res with mad-max (mad-max middle can is a resonator so the rasp isn't really bad)

2. sell the mad-max and try another muffler that is louder than the madmax..

thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntg44 View Post
If you're referring to actual straight pipes after equal length merge, I don't recommend it. It's a bad time.

If you're referring to a straight through style of muffler, rather than a chambered muffler like the stock one, TGM exhaust uses this type of muffler, and I did as well in my experiments (sound clips in post #3 of this thread).
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      05-11-2021, 07:07 AM   #2249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singham14 View Post
My car is pretty loud right now with resonated downpipes, non resonated equal length and mad-max muffler.... but i want it a little louder...my options:

1. switch out the catless resonated DPs for VRSF fully catless DPs and keep the non res with mad-max (mad-max middle can is a resonator so the rasp isn't really bad)

2. sell the mad-max and try another muffler that is louder than the madmax..

thoughts?
Well, I'll be honest, I hated any kind of downpipe with EL exhaust. In my opinion it was trumpety and raspy sounding. But if you really want it louder, you'll get the best volume increase with a new rear muffler. Different downpipes will be negligible and a waste of labor in my opinion.

The AA Mad Max is unique in that the valve open mode is not in the direct path of the exhaust flow. It's more like "side pipes." It's still the shortest path/least resistance way out, and the sound gets through, but it's not the same as something like Dinan or Remus where the open valve is the most straight through path, and gets interrupted and rerouted through the muffler with the valves closed. In my opinion, this is what you should be looking for. You just need to make sure whatever you pick fits with the AA mid pipe.

But from experience, when I was in a car with downpipes and TGM exhaust, that car was setting off car alarms everywhere. Different design than other systems, but geez. Stock cats was loud enough for me.
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      05-11-2021, 09:53 AM   #2250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntg44 View Post
The AA Mad Max is unique in that the valve open mode is not in the direct path of the exhaust flow. It's more like "side pipes." It's still the shortest path/least resistance way out, and the sound gets through, but it's not the same as something like Dinan or Remus where the open valve is the most straight through path, and gets interrupted and rerouted through the muffler with the valves closed. In my opinion, this is what you should be looking for. You just need to make sure whatever you pick fits with the AA mid pipe.
How does this play out in real life? Do you have one of these mufflers?

One thing I don't like about the flaps is the way the tone and volume change suddenly when the valves open when the car is cold. It goes from quiet but nice sound to BOOOOOOOOO somewhere near 3K under load, and it sounds f**king ridiculous. I drive most of the time with the throttle in sport mode, which opens the flaps when it wants to. With the flaps commanded fully open with my valve controller, it will BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO all the time when cold. Pain in my ass.

I would love to find a muffler that sounds good and flows well with the valves totally closed, giving me the options of just driving it and enjoying like a car without any exhaust flaps or cracking them open when I want them loud.
I have an exhaust controller, but 'closed' = stock flap operation, so I still get the sudden change in tone/volume.
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      05-11-2021, 10:03 AM   #2251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000hp View Post
How does this play out in real life? Do you have one of these mufflers?

One thing I don't like about the flaps is the way the tone and volume change suddenly when the valves open when the car is cold. It goes from quiet but nice sound to BOOOOOOOOO somewhere near 3K under load, and it sounds f**king ridiculous. I drive most of the time with the throttle in sport mode, which opens the flaps when it wants to. With the flaps commanded fully open with my valve controller, it will BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO all the time when cold. Pain in my ass.

I would love to find a muffler that sounds good and flows well with the valves totally closed, giving me the options of just driving it and enjoying like a car without any exhaust flaps or cracking them open when I want them loud.
I have an exhaust controller, but 'closed' = stock flap operation, so I still get the sudden change in tone/volume.
Cold start (warm cold starts included) + valves open = one of the worst sounds known to man

itís cause the wastegates are fully open in cold start sequence
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      05-11-2021, 10:04 AM   #2252
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How much volume will be gained when switching from the stock ZCP muffler to a remus muffler? (stock DP + EL resonated).
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      05-11-2021, 10:07 AM   #2253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000hp View Post
How does this play out in real life? Do you have one of these mufflers?

One thing I don't like about the flaps is the way the tone and volume change suddenly when the valves open when the car is cold. It goes from quiet but nice sound to BOOOOOOOOO somewhere near 3K under load, and it sounds f**king ridiculous. I drive most of the time with the throttle in sport mode, which opens the flaps when it wants to. With the flaps commanded fully open with my valve controller, it will BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO all the time when cold. Pain in my ass.

I would love to find a muffler that sounds good and flows well with the valves totally closed, giving me the options of just driving it and enjoying like a car without any exhaust flaps or cracking them open when I want them loud.
I have an exhaust controller, but 'closed' = stock flap operation, so I still get the sudden change in tone/volume.

I no longer have my M3, but I know enough about EL exhaust design on this specific platform at this point to have a pretty educated guess at an answer to members' questions. It's why I still stick around on here

The only EL exhausts I've had were my 3 custom passive systems and the TGM valved system.

I'm not clear on what you are looking for though. If you prefer a passive non valved exhaust, I think the AA 3 can muffler with no valves will probably get you there. Either that, or get a valve controller where off = off all the time, rather than OEM operation. But the way I'm reading your post, it reads like you don't want a valved system, so I'd say the AA passive 3 can or find a fabricator to put in some straight through mufflers along with the appropriate sized Helmholtz resonators if needed. Most aftermarket offerings are valved because the stock system is valved and most customers want to keep that feature.

Hope this helped.
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      05-11-2021, 10:13 AM   #2254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntg44 View Post
I no longer have my M3, but I know enough about EL exhaust design on this specific platform at this point to have a pretty educated guess at an answer to members' questions. It's why I still stick around on here

The only EL exhausts I've had were my 3 custom passive systems and the TGM valved system.

I'm not clear on what you are looking for though. If you prefer a passive non valved exhaust, I think the AA 3 can muffler with no valves will probably get you there. Either that, or get a valve controller where off = off all the time, rather than OEM operation. But the way I'm reading your post, it reads like you don't want a valved system, so I'd say the AA passive 3 can or find a fabricator to put in some straight through mufflers along with the appropriate sized Helmholtz resonators if needed. Most aftermarket offerings are valved because the stock system is valved and most customers want to keep that feature.

Hope this helped.
Thanks. If I found an exhaust that sounded good/flowed well/was loud enough with the valves closed, i could just unplug the actuators.
From what I've heard, the three-can is on the quiet side. I don't want crazy loud, but I do want to be able to hear it. Not having drone at all is critical, so the the three can with its chamber is appealing. Just don't want it to be as quiet as stock, since I have the resonated midpipe.
This car only booms when cold (first ~20 minutes of driving, not just at startup) when the valves open. So having something where I could either A) just leave them closed all the time and have good sound, or B) doesn't ever make that noise, would be great.
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      05-11-2021, 10:19 AM   #2255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000hp View Post
Thanks. If I found an exhaust that sounded good/flowed well/was loud enough with the valves closed, i could just unplug the actuators.
From what I've heard, the three-can is on the quiet side. I don't want crazy loud, but I do want to be able to hear it. Not having drone at all is critical, so the the three can with its chamber is appealing. Just don't want it to be as quiet as stock, since I have the resonated midpipe.
This car only booms when cold (first ~20 minutes of driving, not just at startup) when the valves open. So having something where I could either A) just leave them closed all the time and have good sound, or B) doesn't ever make that noise, would be great.
Hmm... well that's going to be hard to find without doing custom. Do you have aftermarket downpipes already? Maybe the solution is as easy as downpipes and the AA passive 3 can?
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      05-11-2021, 10:26 AM   #2256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntg44 View Post
Hmm... well that's going to be hard to find without doing custom. Do you have aftermarket downpipes already? Maybe the solution is as easy as downpipes and the AA passive 3 can?
I'm keeping primary cats on the car. If not stock then aftermarket DPs with cats.

I think there are some aftermarket mufflers that flow well with closed valves. Just a matter of finding the right one.
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      05-11-2021, 11:36 AM   #2257
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See a lot of posts regarding rattling pipes. Besides the brace being a location of rattles, I believe the downpipe to mid pipe connections with the crush gaskets can rattle/vibrate as well. I noticed this because on cold starts I see exhaust condensation coming out from the connection areas - I ordered some new gaskets and hoping to install them and take care of some mild rattling I get in low rpms. Will check for other possible rattling causes during install.

I went from Stock to AA single to AA EL, using the original all 3 times. I doubt those crush gaskets are in good shape after being adapted to three different pipes.

Part # for anyone interested (I recommend just ordering it and installing it at the initial install- not saying you'll have a leak for sure but a crush washer technically is designed for one time use, I had no issue w/ the AA single however)

BMW Exhaust Gasket - 18307851168 X 2
BMW Flange Steady - Genuine BMW 18307848046 x1
BMW Collar Nut (M8) - Genuine BMW 18307597650 x 4
BMW ISA Screw - Genuine BMW 07129905867 x 2

Technically you only need the gasket if your car is in good shape - but for those that drive in snow / salt I'd buy the nuts/screws as well. I bought it all because I don't intend to fix this leak / rattle twice or deal w/ corroded hardware issues on install. YMMV
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      05-17-2021, 08:55 AM   #2258
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Just received an update from XPH that the EL exhaust is still out of stock and won't be back in stock for another 2 weeks. So maybe it ships out in early June?
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      05-17-2021, 11:36 AM   #2259
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so you think remus or dinan would be louder with my current set up? that's what I am taking away from this because it's more of a straight pipe vs. the mad max.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntg44 View Post
Well, I'll be honest, I hated any kind of downpipe with EL exhaust. In my opinion it was trumpety and raspy sounding. But if you really want it louder, you'll get the best volume increase with a new rear muffler. Different downpipes will be negligible and a waste of labor in my opinion.

The AA Mad Max is unique in that the valve open mode is not in the direct path of the exhaust flow. It's more like "side pipes." It's still the shortest path/least resistance way out, and the sound gets through, but it's not the same as something like Dinan or Remus where the open valve is the most straight through path, and gets interrupted and rerouted through the muffler with the valves closed. In my opinion, this is what you should be looking for. You just need to make sure whatever you pick fits with the AA mid pipe.

But from experience, when I was in a car with downpipes and TGM exhaust, that car was setting off car alarms everywhere. Different design than other systems, but geez. Stock cats was loud enough for me.
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      05-17-2021, 11:49 AM   #2260
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Quote:
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so you think remus or dinan would be louder with my current set up? that's what I am taking away from this because it's more of a straight pipe vs. the mad max.
I've never heard either in person, but if I was to guess, the Dinan would be louder due to its significantly smaller muffler compared to the Remus. With valves open, I'm sure it's minimal difference though. Personally, I'd pick the Remus with the larger muffler so things don't get annoying with valves closed, but everyone has different tastes. Otherwise there's really no sense in getting a valved exhaust to begin with if the valve closed mode isn't quiet.
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      05-17-2021, 04:04 PM   #2261
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im in that group too

hoping june also

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Coughing View Post
Just received an update from XPH that the EL exhaust is still out of stock and won't be back in stock for another 2 weeks. So maybe it ships out in early June?
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      05-17-2021, 06:56 PM   #2262
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Originally Posted by Soul Coughing View Post
Just received an update from XPH that the EL exhaust is still out of stock and won't be back in stock for another 2 weeks. So maybe it ships out in early June?
i hope so. i was told mid june yesterday and i ordered early march. im not getting too optimistic at this point tho. some severe incompetence with this whole experience not gonna lie (on AA's side).
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      05-18-2021, 11:07 AM   #2263
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what do you think of GTHAUS racing muffler? Anyone try this with the AA equal length?

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Originally Posted by ntg44 View Post
I've never heard either in person, but if I was to guess, the Dinan would be louder due to its significantly smaller muffler compared to the Remus. With valves open, I'm sure it's minimal difference though. Personally, I'd pick the Remus with the larger muffler so things don't get annoying with valves closed, but everyone has different tastes. Otherwise there's really no sense in getting a valved exhaust to begin with if the valve closed mode isn't quiet.
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      05-18-2021, 11:36 AM   #2264
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i hope so. i was told mid june yesterday and i ordered early march. im not getting too optimistic at this point tho. some severe incompetence with this whole experience not gonna lie (on AA's side).
They are posting vids for the G series!! I'm like, finish up orders from Feb/March for the F guys. I don't want to hear we are short on materials and also start making mid-pipes for a car that just was released. Seems a bit Fucked up
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      05-19-2021, 09:19 AM   #2265
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They are posting vids for the G series!! I'm like, finish up orders from Feb/March for the F guys. I don't want to hear we are short on materials and also start making mid-pipes for a car that just was released. Seems a bit Fucked up
I get the frustration but this is a completely different team. Their designers who are working on new products can't expedite the equal-length shipment.

Im happy they are already working on new products for the new platform, hoping its as good as their F8x
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      05-19-2021, 07:11 PM   #2266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGames View Post
See a lot of posts regarding rattling pipes. Besides the brace being a location of rattles, I believe the downpipe to mid pipe connections with the crush gaskets can rattle/vibrate as well. I noticed this because on cold starts I see exhaust condensation coming out from the connection areas - I ordered some new gaskets and hoping to install them and take care of some mild rattling I get in low rpms. Will check for other possible rattling causes during install.

I went from Stock to AA single to AA EL, using the original all 3 times. I doubt those crush gaskets are in good shape after being adapted to three different pipes.

Part # for anyone interested (I recommend just ordering it and installing it at the initial install- not saying you'll have a leak for sure but a crush washer technically is designed for one time use, I had no issue w/ the AA single however)

BMW Exhaust Gasket - 18307851168 X 2
BMW Flange Steady - Genuine BMW 18307848046 x1
BMW Collar Nut (M8) - Genuine BMW 18307597650 x 4
BMW ISA Screw - Genuine BMW 07129905867 x 2

Technically you only need the gasket if your car is in good shape - but for those that drive in snow / salt I'd buy the nuts/screws as well. I bought it all because I don't intend to fix this leak / rattle twice or deal w/ corroded hardware issues on install. YMMV
Update:
Well the rattle wasn't coming from the gasket, but I changed it out anyway since I paid the shop for their time. However, we found the reason for the rattle -another broken tab/weld that connects the two EL pipes together near the down pipe... maybe AA uses elmers glue to hold this particular weld together because this is the second time it has happened in sub 1000 miles on both my brother's F8X and mine. anyhow we contacted AA the first time and they sent us to Autotalent to get the weld taken care of, so I'll likely reach out again and let them know the same issue occurred to me as well.

For the mean time I just pushed the tab and bent it out of the way.. part of me doesn't think it's necessary but part of me wants a relatively new part to be.. relatively new. We'll see. For those getting rattles with the EL I'd check that weld.

Sounds great though and don't regret it one bit
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