GetBMWParts
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-16-2015, 01:53 PM   #1
Darius13
Registered
4
Rep
3
Posts

Drives: m4 mineral white
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: London

iTrader: (0)

Carbon ceramic brakes in heavy rain

I'm curious if someone has had a similar experience as me. Today, I was driving my M4 on the motorway in heavy rain for the first time since I bought the car. When I had to brake, the braking was almost non-existent. Maybe 20% of what it should be. If I was in an emergency situation, I would definitely end up crashing. After the brakes got warm and dry, they were fine but if you drive for a few minutes in the rain without touching the brakes, the same thing occurs which cannot be right. I had a similar experience when I left the car wash, but I was going slowly.
I will call BMW tomorrow and to get some advice.
In the mean time, any feedback would be great.
Appreciate 0
      02-16-2015, 04:00 PM   #2
FTS
2015 DE Championship Contender
FTS's Avatar
United_States
313
Rep
1,118
Posts

Drives: F82
Join Date: May 2009
Location: MD

iTrader: (0)

I have not experienced this under moderate rain, and I just came through moderate snow, there weren't any decernable differences.
__________________
Cheers!
Most fun way to learn to drive your ///M:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1086323
Appreciate 0
      02-16-2015, 04:18 PM   #3
SapphireSiC
Private First Class
SapphireSiC's Avatar
20
Rep
112
Posts

Drives: 2015 M4
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (0)

Have not been in heavy rain yet. I think the manual states something to the effect that in rain the braking is diminished to that of steel brakes which will feel diminished compared to normal ceramic feel but nothing near 80% degradation. Thanks for warning, though.
Appreciate 0
      02-16-2015, 08:38 PM   #4
MatthewDavid
Captain
124
Rep
732
Posts

Drives: 2015 F82 M4 BSM/CCBs
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 F82 M4  [0.00]
2012 E92 M3 ZCP  [0.00]
2008 E92 M3  [4.50]
Scary! I've ordered CCBs, too, so keep us posted. Can you provide your impressions - overall, beyond this issue - on the CCBs so far in this thread as well?

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...php?p=17403670



Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius13 View Post
...In the mean time, any feedback would be great.
Appreciate 0
      02-16-2015, 09:00 PM   #5
gthal
Major General
gthal's Avatar
Canada
1854
Rep
5,684
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

iTrader: (2)

I've noticed this with my steel brakes too. In VERY heavy rain the initial brake application isn't very responsive.
__________________
2020 X3 M40i | Black | Current DD
2020 C8 Corvette | Z51 | Torch Red ... built and waiting for delivery
2016 M2 | Long Beach Blue | 6MT
2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | DCT
2012 MB C63AMG | 2011 E92 M3 | 2010 E92 M3
Appreciate 0
      02-16-2015, 11:07 PM   #6
M4TW
///M Uber Alles
M4TW's Avatar
Canada
316
Rep
1,601
Posts

Drives: '15 MW M4
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: GSA

iTrader: (1)

This can be found in the sticky Deep Drive and Interview:
Quote:
If the brake disc and pads become wet, all brakes undergo a drop in their friction coefficient. M carbon ceramic brakes normally have a considerably higher coefficient of friction than conventional brakes, and they feel considerably fiercer in operation. However, under the impact of moisture and road salt, for example after using a car wash, or when condensation has formed overnight, the braking effect may be equivalent to that of a conventional brake system. This may be perceived as reduced braking performance, but it can be compensated for by applying more pressure with the brake pedal; this should be continued until the pads and discs have fully dried out. Since the difference in frictional coefficient between dry and wet brakes is higher than normal with M carbon ceramic brakes, it is felt all the more clearly by the driver.
I didn't notice any problems in heavy rain - hardly see past the hood heavy rain that is. But that was in the summer. Likewise, frigid temperatures haven't presented a challenge. Then again we have a dry type of cold up here. Perhaps colder temperatures and heavy rain aren't a good mix? I find that riding them before having to apply them in these situations warms them up and dries them off quickly. I think that a panic stop should still be possible too, if your leg press exercises are up to snuff.
__________________
die Welt ist meine Auster
2015 M4, MW, Black Full Merino, DCT, CCB, Adaptive M Suspension, Premium, Executive. Technology, ConnectedDrive, CF Trim, Convenience Telephony, European Delivery
Appreciate 0
      02-16-2015, 11:08 PM   #7
chrisca
New Member
5
Rep
25
Posts

Drives: mclaren 12c
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: norcal

iTrader: (0)

I've had the same experience in heavy rain with my CCBs.
Appreciate 0
      02-16-2015, 11:26 PM   #8
MWcoupe
24k GOLD
MWcoupe's Avatar
United_States
137
Rep
1,452
Posts

Drives: Mineral White M4
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BROOKLYN NY

iTrader: (0)

I have Ccb and I know exactly what you're talking about. I went on a 200 mile road trip when my car only had 550miles on odometer. Brakes wasn't breaker into yet. Heavy rain condition and the car felt like it had 20%braking power. After that I tried bedding my brakes more frequent. Even after I get out of a car was nowadays the braking power is like 50% the first two blocks. Try bedding your brakes more. They take some beating to break into I believe
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2015, 12:26 AM   #9
MatthewDavid
Captain
124
Rep
732
Posts

Drives: 2015 F82 M4 BSM/CCBs
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 F82 M4  [0.00]
2012 E92 M3 ZCP  [0.00]
2008 E92 M3  [4.50]
Guys, would you please provide your overall feedback on the CCBs in the thread linked below? It'd be greatly appreciated and helpful to all!!

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1091378



Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisca View Post
I've had the same experience in heavy rain with my CCBs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MWcoupe View Post
I have Ccb and I know exactly what you're talking about...
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2015, 12:42 AM   #10
MDIVISION
Major
United_States
263
Rep
1,177
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Silicon Valley

iTrader: (1)

Drive safe out there
__________________
2002 E46 M3 Coupe.. SOLD
2011 BMW 1M Coupe SOLD
2013 BMW M3 Coupe SOLD
2014 BMW 335i MPPK SOLD
2015 M3 SOLD
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2015, 01:30 PM   #11
Darius13
Registered
4
Rep
3
Posts

Drives: m4 mineral white
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: London

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for the feedback. I spoke with various people from BMW and according to them, the behaviour of the brakes in heavy rain which I experienced is normal . I talked to a sales rep who owns an M3 with CCBs and had the exact same experience as I did. I was told to just be extra careful in heavy rain, that's it. My car has done 1300 miles so the brakes probably haven't fully broken in yet but i'm not expecting any different behaviour once they have.
I insisted that an inquiry has to be made about this and I was promised that an email will be sent to Germany to get some answers. I'll keep you posted.
In the mean time, to anyone who has CCBs, be very careful whilst driving in very wet conditions. Make sure you pump your brakes frequently so that they are dry and hot.
I still think that CCBs are the way to go as when they are hot, the braking performance is far superior to that of metal brakes.
Appreciate 1
      02-17-2015, 07:08 PM   #12
catch
Major General
catch's Avatar
Canada
650
Rep
7,140
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Thornhill

iTrader: (27)

glad you learnt this during regular driving, not during an emergency.

While it sounds like you still like the brakes, a lot of posts I've read recently, this one included, that solidify my decision to go with standard brakes
__________________
2016 F80 M3 Mineral White/Sakhir Orange
2013 BMW S1000RR Flat Silver <stolen>
2007 BMW E92 335i Jet Black/Jade Grey <sold>
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2016, 06:13 AM   #13
CAOZKAN
Lieutenant
84
Rep
453
Posts

Drives: Austin Yellow M4
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Istanbul

iTrader: (0)

I have the same problem under heavy rain and highway, this is really scary actually because I was about to crash few times due to unresponsive brakes. I had to press the brake harder and longer time than expected during a road trip this weekend, I was literally about to bump the car in front of me, thank god they got dry and warm just before this happened. I slowed down and continue my trip at low speed. CCB users, please be really careful in heavy rain.
Appreciate 0
      03-15-2016, 01:37 PM   #14
Colinv6
Colonel
Colinv6's Avatar
United Kingdom
3350
Rep
2,489
Posts

Drives: E92 M3 competition
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Scotland

iTrader: (0)

I've had this on steel brakes too! It's very scary and the brakes are non existent for 2-3 seconds (a long time on an off ramp).
Appreciate 0
      03-22-2016, 11:56 AM   #15
2kaccordocoupe
Brigadier General
2kaccordocoupe's Avatar
Canada
983
Rep
4,452
Posts

Drives: MY2020 X4MC
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: The 6ix

iTrader: (2)

didn't the e9x have that brake drying feature where you would turn on the rain sensor wipers and it would apply light pressure to the brakes to keep them dry as you drove or something to that effect?
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2016, 07:02 AM   #16
dubsesd
#dubspec
dubsesd's Avatar
No_Country
5684
Rep
5,157
Posts

Drives: G05 X5/ 2016 F80 M3 INDVL
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ottawa

iTrader: (2)

This is normal on steel brakes as well. Nothing new here
__________________
LCI ///F80 M3 Individual Atlantis Metallic / Black Full / Carbon Cermics / 6MT
MPE / M Performance & Carbon package / KW v3 / 20" HRE R101LW / 20" HRE 527s / Michelin PSS / 20% tint / 3d Design / Streckenn splitters / OEM GTS hood / EAS Carbon seatbacks / Carbon RKP sideskirt / Bootmod3 / M Performance Tri color alcantara / AWE S Flow
instagram: @ dubsesd
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2016, 07:18 PM   #17
CAOZKAN
Lieutenant
84
Rep
453
Posts

Drives: Austin Yellow M4
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Istanbul

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2kaccordocoupe
didn't the e9x have that brake drying feature where you would turn on the rain sensor wipers and it would apply light pressure to the brakes to keep them dry as you drove or something to that effect?
This was the first possible solution which i thought can solve the problem. It seems like we don't have it though because my rain sensor was on all the time and I still had the problem... I recently got all the modules updated on the car, maybe if this something related to the software, it may help.
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2016, 07:23 PM   #18
rr006rbc
Colonel
United_States
1182
Rep
2,758
Posts

Drives: '17 Nardo Grey M3 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: California

iTrader: (38)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2kaccordocoupe View Post
didn't the e9x have that brake drying feature where you would turn on the rain sensor wipers and it would apply light pressure to the brakes to keep them dry as you drove or something to that effect?
I believe it only operates at high speeds where you can't tell that the brakes are being applied every so slightly just to clean off the mating surface of the pad and the rotor..

So if you're experiencing brake efficiency losses at slow speeds you'll just have to be careful with CCBs..

I've been in super heavy rain in my F80 w/ steel brakes and haven't felt a loss in braking strength and I POUNDED on them just to see how the wet traction braking was with the stock Michelins..and it's not too bad.
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2016, 07:29 PM   #19
AM4ZING
Colonel
AM4ZING's Avatar
1175
Rep
2,096
Posts

Drives: M4 MW/SO 6MT, E46 M3 AW/IR 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [0.00]
2015 BMW M4  [0.00]
I have been in HEAVY RAIN and the CCB's have always held up fine... Even after a carwash, takes only a few seconds for them to bite
__________________
MILA | E46 BMW M3 | AW/IR | 6MT | KW V3 | CSL | Vorsteiner |
EMILY | F82 BMW M4 | MW/SO | 6MT | M Carbon Ceramic Brakes | M Performance Exhaust |
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2016, 07:45 PM   #20
BwoodBMW
Colonel
BwoodBMW's Avatar
1753
Rep
2,503
Posts

Drives: EFFEIGHTY
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LA LA land

iTrader: (0)

very common story with CCBs... I've heard it can be a bit disconcerting
Appreciate 0
      03-23-2016, 11:01 PM   #21
CAOZKAN
Lieutenant
84
Rep
453
Posts

Drives: Austin Yellow M4
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Istanbul

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rr006rbc
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2kaccordocoupe View Post
didn't the e9x have that brake drying feature where you would turn on the rain sensor wipers and it would apply light pressure to the brakes to keep them dry as you drove or something to that effect?
I believe it only operates at high speeds where you can't tell that the brakes are being applied every so slightly just to clean off the mating surface of the pad and the rotor..

So if you're experiencing brake efficiency losses at slow speeds you'll just have to be careful with CCBs..

I've been in super heavy rain in my F80 w/ steel brakes and haven't felt a loss in braking strength and I POUNDED on them just to see how the wet traction braking was with the stock Michelins..and it's not too bad.
Can you define the high speed? I was on a highway doing 120-130mph for like an hour actually.. Please don't judge me because the road is very empty and 4 lane highway. Also my brakes are working fine after washing as well but this was really heavy rain conditions plus high speed without braking for a long time so I assume the brakes were really very cold..
Appreciate 0
      03-24-2016, 12:15 AM   #22
Ragged Edge
First Lieutenant
Ragged Edge's Avatar
Canada
329
Rep
335
Posts

Drives: '16F80,TR6,Defender,PA23-250T
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: CYVR

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M3  [0.00]
My CCB's work great in heavy rain. Normal slight delay (as with steel) when coated with water and road grime.
At high speed, things happen so much faster so I bet you really notice the delay before the rotor gets cleaned.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:16 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST