Buying "demo" cars? Mine turned out to be an M driving school car and keeps breaking

[Laostuh]

Originally Posted by iqstick

Only other place in Southern California I saw a similar spec car listed was Pacific BMW in Glendale. Not asking OP to put whatever dealer he is dealing with on blast I just want to throw it out there.

There was another post where OP very clearly mentioned the dealership. And it was in fact Pacific.

I will never go to Pacific simply because they cannot even do an oil change correctly, they stripped my bolt and wouldn't take responsibility. Tried to upsell me $3900 to replace oil plan. Straight crooks.

Hope OP gets this resolved without too much headache..

[MyNameIsNotSure]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

I was under the impression that they had to inform you it was a PDC car. I would call BMWNA and ask that question first. Saying it’s a demo with occasional track use is not the same thing. If that fails, be diplomatic and tell the original dealership you want them to 100% fix the car.

BTW... did you buy from Pacific BMW? I hope not. They are total crooks. If so, and you have to get it fixed, do not let them do it.

Originally Posted by iqstick

Only other place in Southern California I saw a similar spec car listed was Pacific BMW in Glendale. Not asking OP to put whatever dealer he is dealing with on blast I just want to throw it out there.

Originally Posted by Laostuh

There was another post where OP very clearly mentioned the dealership. And it was in fact Pacific.

I will never go to Pacific simply because they cannot even do an oil change correctly, they stripped my bolt and wouldn't take responsibility. Tried to upsell me $3900 to replace oil plan. Straight crooks.

Hope OP gets this resolved without too much headache..

Actually I haven't mentioned the name of the dealership yet but looks like the cat is pretty much out of the bag, and the dealer won't play ball either. So yes, I did buy it at Pacific BMW.

Their director called me back today, I was actually very much warming up to the idea of buying that M4 to swap mine out and was really hoping he managed to confirm that the M4 was not a PDC car. However it turned out that the M4 got sold last night .

So again I told him to take the car back outright and he refused, unless I bought another car from him. They don't have anything else I'm even remotely interested in so I asked if he could do a dealer exchange with another dealer (there's a nice M3 I like in Sacramento and a decent M4 at Century West) and he said he can't exchange used cars at all. It's odd to me that he's open to taking the car back if I buy another one, but can't just take the car back outright. I mean apparently they're selling like hotcakes anyway.

He again mentioned that they did not disclose to me that it was a driving school car because they did not know. I asked him in a couple of different ways and he explicitly said that the only information BMW gives them when they acquire the car is that it was a demo car and in the "driving program". They apparently have no way of knowing that it's a PDC car. He explicitly said "driving program" could mean anything and not necessarily the driving school (which actually strengthens my point).

Here's the kicker--I told him that somehow Century West BMW knows that the cars they have are PDC cars (since a user above called them and asked) and he told me that Century West could not possibly have any way of knowing that and that they are spreading misinformation... Yes I'm sure they're intentionally spreading lies that--if anything--decrease the value of their cars......

So I called BMW NA, the guy wrote down my story and told me he would be escalating it and to expect a call back tomorrow.

[kfresh]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNotSure

Actually I haven't mentioned the name of the dealership yet but looks like the cat is pretty much out of the bag, and the dealer won't play ball either. So yes, I did buy it at Pacific BMW.

Their director called me back today, I was actually very much warming up to the idea of buying that M4 to swap mine out and was really hoping he managed to confirm that the M4 was not a PDC car. However it turned out that the M4 got sold last night .

So again I told him to take the car back outright and he refused, unless I bought another car from him. They don't have anything else I'm even remotely interested in so I asked if he could do a dealer exchange with another dealer (there's a nice M3 I like in Sacramento and a decent M4 at Century West) and he said he can't exchange used cars at all. It's odd to me that he's open to taking the car back if I buy another one, but can't just take the car back outright. I mean apparently they're selling like hotcakes anyway.

He again mentioned that they did not disclose to me that it was a driving school car because they did not know. I asked him in a couple of different ways and he explicitly said that the only information BMW gives them when they acquire the car is that it was a demo car and in the "driving program". They apparently have no way of knowing that it's a PDC car. He explicitly said "driving program" could mean anything and not necessarily the driving school (which actually strengthens my point).

Here's the kicker--I told him that somehow Century West BMW knows that the cars they have are PDC cars (since a user above called them and asked) and he told me that Century West could not possibly have any way of knowing that and that they are spreading misinformation... Yes I'm sure they're intentionally spreading lies that--if anything--decrease the value of their cars......

So I called BMW NA, the guy wrote down my story and told me he would be escalating it and to expect a call back tomorrow.

Get a Lemon Law lawyer. I had my m4 convertible lemoned due to a leak in the convertible that wasnt resolved after 4 service trips that totaled 5 months. Found a high rating lemon lawyer on google, spoke to them and 4 months later I got ALL my money back. If you need the contact to my lawyer, PM me. GL!

[iqstick]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNotSure

Actually I haven't mentioned the name of the dealership yet but looks like the cat is pretty much out of the bag, and the dealer won't play ball either. So yes, I did buy it at Pacific BMW.

Their director called me back today, I was actually very much warming up to the idea of buying that M4 to swap mine out and was really hoping he managed to confirm that the M4 was not a PDC car. However it turned out that the M4 got sold last night .

So again I told him to take the car back outright and he refused, unless I bought another car from him. They don't have anything else I'm even remotely interested in so I asked if he could do a dealer exchange with another dealer (there's a nice M3 I like in Sacramento and a decent M4 at Century West) and he said he can't exchange used cars at all. It's odd to me that he's open to taking the car back if I buy another one, but can't just take the car back outright. I mean apparently they're selling like hotcakes anyway.

He again mentioned that they did not disclose to me that it was a driving school car because they did not know. I asked him in a couple of different ways and he explicitly said that the only information BMW gives them when they acquire the car is that it was a demo car and in the "driving program". They apparently have no way of knowing that it's a PDC car. He explicitly said "driving program" could mean anything and not necessarily the driving school (which actually strengthens my point).

Here's the kicker--I told him that somehow Century West BMW knows that the cars they have are PDC cars (since a user above called them and asked) and he told me that Century West could not possibly have any way of knowing that and that they are spreading misinformation... Yes I'm sure they're intentionally spreading lies that--if anything--decrease the value of their cars......

So I called BMW NA, the guy wrote down my story and told me he would be escalating it and to expect a call back tomorrow.

Good luck OP and I hope you can get it resolved quickly. Please update us with the outcome.

[bmwmdistrict]

I see a lot of finger pointing in this thread, and I'll take the OP's word for it. It's extremely misleading paperwork that they made him sign, and unfortunately from a legal perspective, it's a lot of verbal and not written documentation.

Connect with the poster who offered his lemon law lawyer above and good luck, OP.

If this happened to any of us we would all be just as upset as OP. It's a shitty situation and hopefully it has a positive ending.

If nothing else, I think we all learned something from this thread.

[nickl630]

Originally Posted by kfresh

Get a Lemon Law lawyer. I had my m4 convertible lemoned due to a leak in the convertible that wasnt resolved after 4 service trips that totaled 5 months. Found a high rating lemon lawyer on google, spoke to them and 4 months later I got ALL my money back. If you need the contact to my lawyer, PM me. GL!

A lemon law applies to defects on NEW cars... not buying a disclosed used demo/loaner vehicle.

[bmwmdistrict]

Originally Posted by nickl630

A lemon law applies to defects on NEW cars... not buying a disclosed used demo/loaner vehicle.

Good point. But regardless, OP should at a minimum seek legal advice.

[jeepin29]

Originally Posted by nickl630

A lemon law applies to defects on NEW cars... not buying a disclosed used demo/loaner vehicle.

California's Lemon laws apply to used cars that are sold with factory warranty if they're under 3 years old/ 36k miles.

[nickl630]

Originally Posted by bsm.m4

Good point. But regardless, OP should at a minimum seek legal advice.

Yeah, Im not sure what recourse he has... It appears the dealer covered their behinds but it wouldnt hurt. Unfortunate for sure.

[nickl630]

Originally Posted by jeepin29

California's Lemon laws apply to used cars that are sold with factory warranty if they're under 3 years old/ 36k miles.

Very cool! TIL!

[jdgamble]

I bought one car from Pacific BMW, and they are without question the worst dealership I have ever experienced... top to bottom. Their sales dept are horrendously dishonest, and their service is even worse. DO NOT LET THEM FIX YOUR CAR. It got so bad that they used oil based grease to fix an interior rattle that they created by removing my door panel incorrectly (among other things). I ended up taking my car to Ontario and they fixed all kinds of hidden damage created by Pacific. I was younger then, and I got taken, and it was a learning experience, but it was a much cheaper car.

I would push really hard on BMWNA. Their story about the car being an executive demo and being on a track is very specific. And now they say they don't know it was a PDC car. The contradictions are insanity. While I think you kinda blew it a little on the research, I've been there. It's a lesson learned. Good luck.

[kfresh]

Originally Posted by nickl630

A lemon law applies to defects on NEW cars... not buying a disclosed used demo/loaner vehicle.

In California, Lemon Law applies to used vehicles as well, if they are still under manufactured warranty and/or CPOed.

I purchased a CPO'ed 16' and one of the reason my case was handled smoothly is due to the CPO warranty as my factory warranty ran out.

[nepats81]

Originally Posted by nickl630

I love everyone in here being a keyboard warrior and saying "MAKE THEM TAKE IT BACK".... lol. He signed a prior use agreement that stated it was a "driving program". He has zero recourse other than the GM/Dealer offering to take the care back out of good will.

Also his exact words: "I was told it was an "exec demo" and was leased to a BMW exec but also "sometimes tracked for demo purposes", vague statements that I didn't really think much of at the time."

OP - If they are even remotely entertaining swapping the car... do it. If not.. you need to give them a chance to fix/repair the car and live with it.

I agree. M4 is better anyways.

[440Vert]

As you are considering the possibility of legal action, I would encourage you to reconstruct all communications with the dealer to memorialize them in written/digital form (assuming that you are not already doing so contemporaneously) and cease posting about these communications for the time being.

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNotSure

...

Here's the fun part, he assured me that that (potential replacement) M4 is not a driving school car because BMW discloses that to them. Well wait... just a minute ago you were telling me that they don't disclose that to you! He did some backpedaling and got vague and used "driving program" a lot. He said he would look into it in further detail to make 100% sure and will get back to me tomorrow.
...

I would be shocked if BMW NA doesn't disclose a used car's history to it's dealers, and it appears you caught them on a lie when they backpedaled. I'd also be shocked if the dealer didn't do any due diligence before acquiring any car for resale.

Based on your description, it appears the dealer misrepresented the car's history to you. This is a BMW dealer, not some two-bit used car shop. Just because you sign something, it doesn't mean you have no recourse. Maybe this falls under contract law where a contract may be voided if it was signed based on fraudulent misrepresentation. You should definitely seek the advice of a lawyer.

[frankiebones]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNotSure

Talked to the director of the dealership today, interesting talk. Initially he told me they can't take the car back because it's not their fault that a disclosure wasn't made and that they didn't know. Said that BMW NA doesn't tell them that it's a driving school car when they receive it (!). He mentioned that I signed the disclosure form saying it's a demo and sent me a copy of it:




No mention of "track" or "performance driving school" anywhere. It says "demo" on one page and "driving program" on another. Neither of those would've ever made me think it was a track driving school car, especially when I was initially told it was an exec lease car.

After a lengthy talk explaining my displeasure he seemed open to taking the car back if I buy another car from them. They do have one there but it's not my ideal choice, it's an (extremely overpriced) M4 and I wanted an M3. Maybe if they sell it to me at a fair price closer to market value I'd consider it but apparently that one is a demo car too.....

Here's the fun part, he assured me that that (potential replacement) M4 is not a driving school car because BMW discloses that to them. Well wait... just a minute ago you were telling me that they don't disclose that to you! He did some backpedaling and got vague and used "driving program" a lot. He said he would look into it in further detail to make 100% sure and will get back to me tomorrow.

Regardless, I do believe that the M4 wasn't a driving school track car, I sat in it and it looked in much better shape than the M3 I bought. Plus it doesn't have the CCB's. Maybe this one actually was an exec lease or something. I'm just really not sure I want an M4, was so in love with a YMB M3 and always wanted one.. but at this point this looks like maybe the easy way out. Any thoughts?

Driving program, to me, screams "track car."

[Mr. Hankey]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

Driving program, to me, screams "track car."

But it doesn't say track car, trick would be actually confirming this...although I have 2 of the same pens OP found and both came from the Performance Center...does that link the murder weapon to the scene of the crime?!

[ferrarifast]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNotSure

still under factory warranty (but strangely not CPO). I was told it was an "exec demo" and was leased to a BMW exec but also "sometimes tracked for demo purposes",

That to me screams "track" car. What sort of demo did you think took place on a track? Also speaking purely from a logical point of view, if you were an exec who was handed the keys to an M car to demo on the track, would you not absolutely hammer it?

TBH you kind of overlooked the obvious.
See if you can get them to give you an extended warranty for free (one that has a similar tier of coverage as BMW's CPO warranty).

Take the warranty and go track the car yourself......that way you'd feel a bit better about it being a tracked car. M3/M4 are absolutely sublime on the track.

[arashir]

yeah, when I read "sometimes tracked for demo purposes" from a dealer, that makes alarm bells go off in my head and I interpret it as "almost constantly tracked for training purposes."

"Driving Program" is also a cleverly deceptive choice of words that gives them an opportunity to verbally imply to you a picture of 10,000 year old executive fossils driving at sunday church speed. That sounds like a driving program. But M school constant trashing of cars is also a driving program.

This is a good albeit unfortunately painful lesson, but sometimes it's the only way to get a feel for dealing with skilled liars.

[frankiebones]

OP you took a risk in buying this car. You got a discount on it as a result of that risk. It, unfortunately, did not prove to be a worthwhile risk. I hope they use their discretion and give you a viable out. However, they aren't obliged to do so.

[jeepin29]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

OP you took a risk in buying this car. You got a discount on it as a result of that risk. It, unfortunately, did not prove to be a worthwhile risk. I hope they use their discretion and give you a viable out. However, they aren't obliged to do so.

Except that he didn't really get a discount at all.

[BMWM5NYC]

Caveat Emptor . As I have learned through life experience. I Trust NO ONE when I purchase a car. I double check every thing a dealership says and does. Check and Double check. If they get offended, oh well that just lets me know you may be hiding something. NO ONE will look out for you like you will look out for yourself. Chalk this up to a life lesson, and know for the next time, ASK QUESTIONS, go to dealership with someone that hates/is indifferent to cars, so they can "temper your excitement" (Cause that is how they "Got" you) and you can be able to avoid this type situation in the future.