Shifting 6MT from 1st to 2nd under hard acceleration - Anyone else have trouble?

[ntg44]

The only way to get a smooth shift between 1-2 shift or any for that matter is to stop accelerating before the shift. The faster you accelerate, the greater the deceleration when you let off throttle to shift. My technique for any manual has always been to be at a constant or near constant speed before letting off throttle and pushing in clutch pedal. Just gradually let off throttle as you're preparing to shift. The benefit of the M3 compared to any other manual I've driven is that the revs match on upshifts, so I just hold the clutch in an extra half second than I normally would so the revs settle for next gear and release clutch pedal normally. I feel like this is nothing new to a manual transmission, this car even makes it easier in that respect. Nobody ever expected a manual to drive like an auto, this is about as smooth as you're going to get in a manual.

[halfempty]

Rev hang is programming that is meant to improve emissions. It is very common in modern engines mated to MTs (I've driven some that are worse than the f80). It isn't the same as rev matching on down shifts however it is still a computerized phenomenon that you have to get used to. I have found that the rev hang is noticeably less in Sport Plus and therefore I can up shift slightly faster when driving aggressively.

[agentrnge]

At least in Econ / Sport with rev-matching in action, could some of the rev-hang be rev-match holding the revs to match your current gear before you actually get the shifter to a nuetral position, then it wont start heading to match your next gear until you are outside the nuetral pos and starting to select that gear?

Gotta get that clutch stop. I tried it on my last manual car, but I needed to adjust the pedal position sensor to use it, and I never got around to it. That was a e39 540. It kind of had the same 1-2 feeling as the M3. Almost always went to 2nd at low revs.

I always wondered do the DCT cars have lighter weight flywheels to allow them to crack into gears faster?

[katit]

In normal driving I shift to 2nd pretty quick. If I stand down hill I don't even use 1st gear, just wait for car to start rolling.

When I do want to go fast I usually feather clutch into second gear with high RPM which makes for nice wheel spin going into second gear and even third gear. Do it rarely though. It's smooth.

[2011zx10R]

Originally Posted by smithf80

You might be able to attribute this to my 6MT newb-ness, as this is my first manual car, but even after 2 months of ownership I cannot consistently shift from 1st to 2nd under hard acceleration smoothly. Usually there is a small buck that happens during the shift that does NOT seem to unsettle the car, but its present nonetheless. I'm not sure if this is normal from just the fact that the throttle is being completely removed and then reapplied very fast or what, but I'm curious to know if other people have this issue or if its just my technique.

I know that this isn't that important of a skill, but I do have a few highway entrances by me that lack a ramp, its more of an abrupt entrance that require entering quickly from a standstill. For the record, after trying this a few times today I didn't smell any weird potential clutch burning smells when I got home, so I don't think any damage is being done there.

More importantly, I like to perfect things, and this is just another quest for perfection.

Other than this, I have no problems driving manual on this car.

Took me sometime to get used to my f80 6mt.

I'm butter smooth in my gti.

Difference; gti is lighter, smaller turbo spoils quicker and rev hangs a split second longer.

M3 is heavy, long clutch throw so you have to get used to it. It changes in different modes with rev match.

For me I have to make a concerted effort to be smooth in first; no short shift 1st to 2nd.

I attribute this to M3 being heavy, big turbos that requires more effort to spool up.

Once you're above 35 mph and your accelerating I'm smoother shifting than any automatic I've ever been in; if I'm trying to be super smooth.

[MrSmartyPants]

Originally Posted by 2011zx10R

For me I have to make a concerted effort to be smooth in first; no short shift 1st to 2nd.

Agreed. The car is much smoother if you rev out to 3 or 4k and drop it into 2nd.

[jninja]

After 12k miles in my 18' ZCP, I can confirm I have no shifting qualms from 1st to 2nd, whether babying or mashing, or in between..however I would say that I do finesse gas/clutch at times during shift. I think this is more of a driver issue than a car issue.

[ADAY18]

Just takes some practice. I wouldn't own anything other than a manual M, or any other fast/fun car for that matter lol.

I was driving in sport+ today going from 1-2 shifting anywhere from 3-5k rpms and you just have to release the clutch right, and pause a little before it's fully released and you should be good!

Love the turbo noise in sport+. Let er rip tater chip!

[icegrill]

I've owned manuals, dsgs, and autos over 23 years and this is by far one of the smoothest and easiest 6spds I've ever driven.

[Pic18]

For those stating this is simply a driver issue I am going to slightly disagree. Yes the F80 6mt can be driven smoothly between 1-2 with careful (slow) clutch control, but that defeats the purpose of what OP is asking.

Under hard acceleration you cannot quickly release the clutch without getting a “buck”. This is a departure from all other BMW manuals that I have owned (3 E46’s and one E90) in which you could basically dump the clutch in 2nd gear in a 0-60 run for example with really no ill effects. If you try and drive the F80 in the same manner it will give you a huge buck.

Ultimately this shouldn’t be a big issue unless you are at the drag strip, but it can be pretty annoying if you are trying to pull out in front of traffic or get in front of someone from a stop light and you either have to way slow down your shift (defeating the purpose of accelerating hard to begin with) or deal with the annoying buck.

[cotmfk]

I feel like this thread is twilight zone. I have no issues shifting from first to second - quickly or slowly.

[DadVibes]

Originally Posted by literbikes

Do what he said. Works perfect.

Here's a link.

http://www.burgertuning.com/clutch_stop_BMW.html

I took one of the pads out, feels perfect for me, but easy to change and install. No more high clutch.

Just picked my F80 M3 6MT up 2 days ago. Thanks to this thread, this BMS clutch stop is going to be my first mod. Just placed my order.

Thanks!

[DadVibes]

Update to my previous post. Installed the shift stop. Big difference. It completely eliminated the dead spot in the clutch and has made smooth shifting, both under load and not, much easier for me.

Best $10 I've spent in a while.

It's definitely possible to achieve the same results by simply refraining from pushing the clutch all the way into the dead zone. And I suspect those not having smooth shift issues are doing just that.

The clutch stop just makes smoother shifting even easier, in my opinion.

[jdarwin]

I've found that if I take 1st to 4,000 RPM and be linear with my clutch and shift, the car responds very well - no hesitation or "bucking". Anything below and it's a crap shoot.

[trey100]

Originally Posted by Pic18

For those stating this is simply a driver issue I am going to slightly disagree. Yes the F80 6mt can be driven smoothly between 1-2 with careful (slow) clutch control, but that defeats the purpose of what OP is asking.

Under hard acceleration you cannot quickly release the clutch without getting a “buck”. This is a departure from all other BMW manuals that I have owned (3 E46’s and one E90) in which you could basically dump the clutch in 2nd gear in a 0-60 run for example with really no ill effects. If you try and drive the F80 in the same manner it will give you a huge buck.

Ultimately this shouldn’t be a big issue unless you are at the drag strip, but it can be pretty annoying if you are trying to pull out in front of traffic or get in front of someone from a stop light and you either have to way slow down your shift (defeating the purpose of accelerating hard to begin with) or deal with the annoying buck.

I have noticed the buck as the revs do drop a bit slowly in calm driving. But when driving in drag strip mode, slapping from 1st to 2nd feels great. I never even thought about the buck. I'm back on the gas winding through the very short 2nd gear.

[joshua1745]

I installed, the ultimate clutch pedal. You can see my install pictures on this forum. It's not too difficult DIY. It is shaped differently and made a big difference bc your foot does not come up off the floor when letting the clutch completely out. The throw feels shorter bc of this and it comes with a clutch stop as well. Its also aluminum instead of the stock plastic pedal. Before that I felt like I was sometimes riding the clutch especially on hard acceleration.

[chmura]

There is a hidden clutch delay valve inside the slave cylinder in the S55 and N55 manuals. They share the same transmission.

I had this 1-2 shift delay and it might be due to the Clutch Delay Valve.

Here is a good DIY to remove it. M3 and M2 manuals have the exact same transmission.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...ch+delay+valve

[jpy1980]

Originally Posted by chmura

There is a hidden clutch delay valve inside the slave cylinder in the S55 and N55 manuals. They share the same transmission.

I had this 1-2 shift delay and it might be due to the Clutch Delay Valve.

Here is a good DIY to remove it. M3 and M2 manuals have the exact same transmission.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...ch+delay+valve

Can someone confirm that it’s the CDV in the SC that is causing the 1-2 shift bucking?

[Fat Goose]

Originally Posted by jpy1980

Can someone confirm that it’s the CDV in the SC that is causing the 1-2 shift bucking?

Yea absolutely, this mod completely changes the feel of 1st and 2nd gear. Love the car now

[scourgem3]

Not related to the main topic but has anyone's auto rev turn off and on by itself? It used to happen maybe once or twice a month but lately, it's been happening more regularly.

[M3hf80]

Originally Posted by scourgem3

Not related to the main topic but has anyone's auto rev turn off and on by itself? It used to happen maybe once or twice a month but lately, it's been happening more regularly.

Yes, this happened to me ever since I got the car back in 2018 and it still happens time to time. I recommend resetting your adaptations, but I've done that like 6 times and it comes back after a month.

[Adcampo]

In my experience any 1st to 2nd shift under hard acceleration is going to be abrupt. Just like it is in a DCT or PDK etc. I'm sure it can be smoothed out by feathering the clutch and or gas, but I would expect it would be slightly slower.

One thing I haven't tried yet in my F80 is speedshifing - keep your foot on the gas as you shift. That should be fun.