Which coilovers on an f80?

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

I’ve used Moton, JRZ, TCK and MCS dampers on my e46 M3, e92 M3s and f82 M4. The MCS 2WR dampers are by far the best dampers I’ve used. I’m about to install a set of 2WRs on my ‘18 240ix.

I'd be interested in the MCS basic damper set.... but.... these appear to be race oriented with solid lower shock eyes, etc. Further, it's not clear to me if they a plug-n-play with the OE front and rear upper strut/shock mounts. Forcing me into camber plates is a deal-breaker as they always introduce NVH and this car is already extremely unrefined in that area. I want better damping without any tradeoffs.

The JRZ RS Pro Touring is a complete, plug-n-play kit for this chassis (using stock mounts) and comes in at under $3k. Thoughts on these?

Next, the Ohlins RT is tempting but there is no way in hell anyone is going to convince me they ride better, overall, than my stock ZCP setup with nearly double the rear spring rate.

Next, the Billy B16 sounds neat, but at almost $4k the value seems poor, as do the KW DDC (who's going to spend 4k for coil overs on a pure street car?).

Finally, the basic good old PSS10 seem like the no-brainier value option. The classic Billy dampers, lots of adjustment, plug n play and just above $2k.

Oh, AST?

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

I'd be interested in the MCS basic damper set.... but.... these appear to be race oriented with solid lower shock eyes, etc. Further, it's not clear to me if they a plug-n-play with the OE front and rear upper strut/shock mounts. Forcing me into camber plates is a deal-breaker as they always introduce NVH and this car is already extremely unrefined in that area. I want better damping without any tradeoffs.

The JRZ RS Pro Touring is a complete, plug-n-play kit for this chassis (using stock mounts) and comes in at under $3k. Thoughts on these?

Next, the Ohlins RT is tempting but there is no way in hell anyone is going to convince me they ride better, overall, than my stock ZCP setup with nearly double the rear spring rate.

Next, the Billy B16 sounds neat, but at almost $4k the value seems poor, as do the KW DDC (who's going to spend 4k for coil overs on a pure street car?).

Finally, the basic good old PSS10 seem like the no-brainier value option. The classic Billy dampers, lots of adjustment, plug n play and just above $2k.

Oh, AST?

MCS - you cannot reuse the stock front upper mount and top rear mount (just like the JRZ RS Pro which uses an eye-eye rear damper and upper clevis mount). I’m also running BW front control arm bearings and I’ve noticed very little change in NVH relative to stock.

RS Pro Touring under $3k? I don’t think so. Are you referring to RSone or RStwo touring? I believe the RSone and RStwo Touring do use stock front and rear upper mounts.

Ohlins now lets you pick the spring rates for the R&T so you aren’t stuck with the original stiff rear spring rate. With 400/700 I bet they’ll ride well on the street.

I think the JRZ RSone/two or Ohlins R&T are both better options than Bilstein. PSS10 is a decent option if budget limited.

No experience with AST. I believe only the 5100 uses the stock front upper mount but I’m not sure about the rear mount. It seems AST’s latest offerings (since buying/merging with Moton) are very robust compared to what they previously offered thru ~‘14 (failed frequently) and a good option (lower price point). They also use Moton technology so they also perform better now especially with the double-digressive valving option.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

MCS - you cannot reuse the stock front upper mount and top rear mount (just like the JRZ RS Pro which uses an eye-eye rear damper and upper clevis mount). I’m also running BW front control arm bearings and I’ve noticed very little change in NVH relative to stock.

RS Pro Touring under $3k? I don’t think so. Are you referring to RSone or RStwo touring? I believe the RSone and RStwo Touring do use stock front and rear upper mounts.

Ohlins now lets you pick the spring rates for the R&T so you aren’t stuck with the original stiff rear spring rate. With 400/700 I bet they’ll ride well on the street.

I think the JRZ RSone/two or Ohlins R&T are both better options than Bilstein. PSS10 is a decent option if budget limited.

No experience with AST. I believe only the 5100 uses the stock front upper mount but I’m not sure about the rear mount. It seems AST’s latest offerings (since buying/merging with Moton) are very robust compared to what they previously offered thru ~‘14 (failed frequently) and a good option (lower price point). They also use Moton technology so they also perform better now especially with the double-digressive valving option.

Great post.

Yes, I meant RS One Touring is what I meant. My bad.

Does RT let you pick any rate? I thought it was limited to two not ideal choices in the rear, about 900lbs and the original 1300lbs. I'm with you 100% that a much softer spring set would/could make all the difference (I've done this many times over the years... even 100lbs is a substantial difference). Course, could just buy the RT as is and then swap springs but now I'm at 4 grand... roughly.

Budget not the problem... value the problem, to be clear. And, we must carefully define "better"... as there is no single definition for that.

I want maximum control + compliance on the street. I want a tangible improvement in comfort/crashiness compared to stock ZCP. Give me that and then that's "better" for me. If the PSS10 does all of that for half the price of the big boys than that's the better coilover for me.... for example

Now, if I MUST pay 4k to get what I want then so be it.... but in my experience, the higher end systems are race-bred and suck on the street.

Looking for the holy grail, here.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

No experience with AST. I believe only the 5100 uses the stock front upper mount but I’m not sure about the rear mount. It seems AST’s latest offerings (since buying/merging with Moton) are very robust compared to what they previously offered thru ~‘14 (failed frequently) and a good option (lower price point). They also use Moton technology so they also perform better now especially with the double-digressive valving option.

AST 5100s use stock rear mounts.



Refeshing to see people recognize true coilover brands in here. Keep it up.

[EricSMG]

Tom - do the 5100s use the OE front strut mounts? And, are the drop links required for minimal ride height drops? What rates are available with these?^^

Great pricing on these, btw, wow... but they seem track focused. Are these honestly a good choice for a pure street car, even with ultra stock (OE-ish) rates?

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Tom - do the 5100s use the OE front strut mounts?^^

Great pricing on these, btw, wow.

5100s use OEM strut mounts, 5200s have camber plates.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

5100s use OEM strut mounts, 5200s have camber plates.

Wow, so truly plug n play into an otherwise stock F80.

Questions from above:

- why are drop links required (is it because the swaybar tabs are dramatically relocated from stock?)?
- what rates are available with these?
- are these (honestly) a good choice for a pure street car?

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Wow, so truly plug n play into an otherwise stock F80.

Questions from above:

- why are drop links required (is it because the swaybar tabs are dramatically relocated from stock?)?
- what rates are available with these?
- are these (honestly) a good choice for a pure street car?

Drop links are required as the mounting point locations are different. Standard OTS springs are provided or you can specify your own if you have specific specs you would like to supply.

AST 5100s, JRZ RS One, Ohlins R&Ts and are great street setups. It depends on how much you are looking to get out of a street setup, as you can eventually outgrow them if you have a developing track habit.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Drop links are required as the mounting point locations are different. Standard OTS springs are provided or you can specify your own if you have specific specs you would like to supply.

AST 5100s, JRZ RS One, Ohlins R&Ts and are great street setups. It depends on how much you are looking to get out of a street setup, as you can eventually outgrow them if you have a developing track habit.

Do you know the OTS rates of the 5100 for the F80?

Of those three which would you recommend for a pure street car that gets driven aggressively (canyons) but also is a DD?

[scott13]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Great post.

Yes, I meant RS One Touring is what I meant. My bad.

...

I want maximum control + compliance on the street. I want a tangible improvement in comfort/crashiness compared to stock ZCP. Give me that and then that's "better" for me.

At the risk of telling you something you already know...

If you're about the take the plunge on coilovers, one small bit of advice I'd suggest is to do whatever you can to find people near you that are running any of the kits you're considering (on an F8x) and go for a test drive.

I've been on springs, coilovers and HAS kits on this car and one thing I can tell you for sure is that the terms "comfort", "performance", etc. all come with a bit of subjective interpretation.

At one point I was running the JRZ RS ONE Touring and from a strictly comfort perspective, I thought they were definitely much less "crashy" (harsh rebound?) than OEM, but in my experience/opinion, it came at the expense of a very "busy/twitchy" ride. That's not to say that they were bad or uncomfortable...just different than what I was expecting.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by scott13

At the risk of telling you something you already know...

If you're about the take the plunge on coilovers, one small bit of advice I'd suggest is to do whatever you can to find people near you that are running any of the kits you're considering (on an F8x) and go for a test drive.

I've been on springs, coilovers and HAS kits on this car and one thing I can tell you for sure is that the terms "comfort", "performance", etc. all come with a bit of subjective interpretation.

At one point I was running the JRZ RS ONE Touring and from a strictly comfort perspective, I thought they were definitely much less "crashy" (harsh rebound?) than OEM, but in my experience/opinion, it came at the expense of a very "busy/twitchy" ride. That's not to say that they were bad or uncomfortable...just different than what I was expecting.

Good post. Yep, we're on the same page. That said, I enjoy hearing from forum member's, too, and can generally judge by the way a person conveys their thoughts and preferences if they have similar "interpretations" of comfort as myself.

For example, your input on the JRZ 1T above is precisely what I'm looking for. I know exactly, to a "T", what you mean by less crashy but more busy. And honestly, both are bad for a streetcar. Busy means they were too stiff - usually very firm slow speed valving combined with high spring rates means the suspenion will not "breathe" with the road at slower speeds as the forces are simply not high enough get get things moving - the result is that the chassis bobbles around as it follows the road's surface changes. Also, lots of internal damper friction and high gas pressure can exacerbate this.

What rates were you running?

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Good post. Yep, we're on the same page. That said, I enjoy hearing from forum member's, too, and can generally judge by the way a person conveys their thoughts and preferences if they have similar "interpretations" of comfort as myself.

For example, your input on the JRZ 1T above is precisely what I'm looking for. I know exactly, to a "T", what you mean by less crashy but more busy. And honestly, both are bad for a streetcar. Busy means they were too stiff - usually very firm slow speed valving combined with high spring rates means the suspenion will not "breathe" with the road at slower speeds as the forces are simply not high enough get get things moving - the result is that the chassis bobbles around as it follows the road's surface changes. Also, lots of internal damper friction and high gas pressure can exacerbate this.

What rates were you running?

My experience is the complete opposite of yours. The higher-end double/triple adjustable “race” dampers have far superior ride quality on the street. Independent rebound-compression damping, blow-off valving, digressive valving, etc. all combine to yield excellent ride quality even with higher spring rates. I’m running 600/900 with the MCS 2WR on the M4 and the overall ride quality is far superior to the stock suspension on the 240ix.

I think you run into some of the issues you’ve described with single-adjustable dampers because adjusting rebound damping also adjusts compression damping (fixed ratio on JRZ RSone and equal change on Ohlins R&T with DFV). If you end up having to add rebound damping then you can end up in a situation where you have too much compression damping which results in a “bouncy” and/or “nervous” ride as well as harshness. I have Ohlins R&T on my R56 Mini Cooper S.

[scott13]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Good post. Yep, we're on the same page. That said, I enjoy hearing from forum member's, too, and can generally judge by the way a person conveys their thoughts and preferences if they have similar "interpretations" of comfort as myself.

For example, your input on the JRZ 1T above is precisely what I'm looking for. I know exactly, to a "T", what you mean by less crashy but more busy. And honestly, both are bad for a streetcar. Busy means they were too stiff - usually very firm slow speed valving combined with high spring rates means the suspenion will not "breathe" with the road at slower speeds as the forces are simply not high enough get get things moving - the result is that the chassis bobbles around as it follows the road's surface changes. Also, lots of internal damper friction and high gas pressure can exacerbate this.

What rates were you running?

I was just running the springs that come with the RS 1T kit. Going by the cat# on the springs, the rears are 685 lb/in. The fronts are progressive, so no published rate that I could find, but IIRC most of the compression range is ~180 lb/in or so. I'm just going by memory there, so I could be off by a bit. I can check later today if it's of interest.

But, yeah...for me, the JRZ RS 1T were very "busy" on relatively flat surfaces and very compliant (non-crashy) over rougher features. For a bit of a comparison, I was on the Swift springs for a while and found that setup to be pretty much the exact opposite--very quiet on smooth surfaces, but a *bit* crashy over rough surfaces.

FWIW, I had some bad luck with the RS 1T's and ended up getting switched to the RS TWO Tourings (using the exact same springs). I definitely liked the TWOs better in terms of the ability to dial in the ride, which is not surprising considering 1-way vs. 2-way adjustability.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Do you know the OTS rates of the 5100 for the F80?

Of those three which would you recommend for a pure street car that gets driven aggressively (canyons) but also is a DD?

5100s get 513/913lb/in OTS, you can specify your own rates if desired.

The 3 kits are very close, but the AST would be my choice out of the three.

[melanthius]

One of my shocks from a 2015 F80 with EDC was leaking, so I decided to go with KW V3s instead of replacing stock shocks. Also got the ground control camber plates.

I got a good price on the KWs (new) and they also offer a $350 mail in rebate currently.

Finally this car feels like an actual sports car. I'm not sure what it is about the 2015 F80 suspension but even at Sport+ it was quite floaty and not confidence inspiring. I came from a 2015 Subaru STI and while the power left a lot to be desired, the handling and steering feel was amazing compared to the F80. Sport+ in the F80 was far softer than the stock non-adjustable STI suspension. The 2015 F80 (which I bought used) always felt weirdly very stiff in the chassis but at the same time extremely soft in the suspension.

I've only had the KWs on for 1 week and the car is completely transformed. The springs are only a bit stiffer than stock but body roll is dramatically reduced, and the car feels much more planted. No more nose dives during hard braking or tilting back during WOT runs. I know my experience with these coils is very limited so far but feels great so far with out of the box settings.

I will add that I was cross-shopping for the Bilstein damptronic, KW DDC, but at the end of the day I decided to save a lot of dollars and go with manual adjustments. My local tuner also recommended JRZ but those were rather pricey for me, and my goal is about 90% daily driver 10% track toy, so I'm not looking for anything too aggressive or specialized.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by melanthius

One of my shocks from a 2015 F80 with EDC was leaking, so I decided to go with KW V3s instead of replacing stock shocks. Also got the ground control camber plates.

I got a good price on the KWs (new) and they also offer a $350 mail in rebate currently.

Finally this car feels like an actual sports car. I'm not sure what it is about the 2015 F80 suspension but even at Sport+ it was quite floaty and not confidence inspiring. I came from a 2015 Subaru STI and while the power left a lot to be desired, the handling and steering feel was amazing compared to the F80. Sport+ in the F80 was far softer than the stock non-adjustable STI suspension. The 2015 F80 (which I bought used) always felt weirdly very stiff in the chassis but at the same time extremely soft in the suspension.

I've only had the KWs on for 1 week and the car is completely transformed. The springs are only a bit stiffer than stock but body roll is dramatically reduced, and the car feels much more planted. No more nose dives during hard braking or tilting back during WOT runs. I know my experience with these coils is very limited so far but feels great so far with out of the box settings.

I will add that I was cross-shopping for the Bilstein damptronic, KW DDC, but at the end of the day I decided to save a lot of dollars and go with manual adjustments. My local tuner also recommended JRZ but those were rather pricey for me, and my goal is about 90% daily driver 10% track toy, so I'm not looking for anything too aggressive or specialized.

V3s are an entry level kit. Just imagine how much better suspension can get from there.

Top-tier suspension kits can be a large nut to crack, but once you've experienced it - its hard to go back.

[melanthius]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

V3s are an entry level kit. Just imagine how much better suspension can get from there.

Top-tier suspension kits can be a large nut to crack, but once you've experienced it - its hard to go back.

I'll admit it is hard for me to understand what I may be missing out on here. I've never even driven on aftermarket coilovers before I got these KWs.

Now I'm satisfied with how the car feels, it would be extremely hard to justify spending 2x or more...

[N54MPower]

Originally Posted by ptper

Do you have any pics with the kw v3's to share? I'm also concerned about slamming in the rear. I'm not worried about harshness. My old s4 had h&r coils which were pretty stiff. I actually liked it. I just made a purchase on HAS, then changed my mind and ordered coils. FML.

[sagi]

Hi

Price aside, which coilovers between the two:
Bilstein b16 damptronic or kw ddc

I want to know which is more comfortable for a daily driver with harsh streets...I live in Toronto.

Which has the least problems..leaks...responding to the 3 settings etc.

I believe the b16 rear sit higher than the kw and can go lower on the b16 if need be.

Hoping someone has experienced both on the f80.

Thanks

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by sagi

Hi

Price aside, which coilovers between the two:
Bilstein b16 damptronic or kw ddc

I want to know which is more comfortable for a daily driver with harsh streets...I live in Toronto.

Which has the least problems..leaks...responding to the 3 settings etc.

I believe the b16 rear sit higher than the kw and can go lower on the b16 if need be.

Hoping someone has experienced both on the f80.

Thanks

I decided on B16 Damptronic. I think you’ll be hard pressed to find someone that has had both

[sagi]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

I decided on B16 Damptronic. I think you’ll be hard pressed to find someone that has had both

How do u find the ride comfort? Better than OEM? any noises and regrets?

[JBones23]

Originally Posted by Justin.AutoTalent

If youre going for comfort then you for sure want coils. Springs ride OK the first 10-20k miles, but progressively get worse and worse and rapidly degrade the dampers reducing comfort.

Do you think the dampers degrade like you're saying when running
Eibachs that have almost the same spring rate as stock? Why would quality aftermarket springs wear out so fast?