[CarWow Video]:BMW M3 CS vs Audi RS4

[samchoi604]

Originally Posted by 818///M3

You can keep the fat wagon. And the people that claim the Audi gapped the BMW are hilarious especially since the idiot didn't even run the M3 in its strongest settings.

typical bmw driver mindset right there

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by DCG

Sport tires with xDrive in a bit of snow works for me. Obviously some people don't have the skills.

I hope you get to re-assess your position before it gets expensive for you.

When you have around 10% of the traction a good winter tire will give you, skills tend to take a background position when the car starts moving in unpredictable directions and you're just along for the ride.

With freezing temperatures, summer tires are a problem even on dead dry pavement.

Way the heck back in the '80s in our first Audi, it took a couple of pucker-factor close calls before all this could penetrate my thick skull.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

I hope you get to re-assess your position before it gets expensive for you.

When you have around 10% of the traction a good winter tire will give you, skills tend to take a background position when the car starts moving in unpredictable directions and you're just along for the ride.

With freezing temperatures, summer tires are a problem even on dead dry pavement.

Way the heck back in the '80s in our first Audi, it took a couple of pucker-factor close calls before all this could penetrate my thick skull.

A friend and co-worker bought a new 2018 S4 and drove it with summer tires through this winter.

Flat parking lot gave him challenges. His ability to brake or turn was shot. He put his life (and others) in danger countless times.

There's an argument for all-seasons where we live. There's no circumstance in which summer tires in wintry conditions make sense. It has little to do with skill, or at least skill is not the primary factor.

[minn19]

I’m guessing that particular person means all seasons and doesn’t understand the difference.

[Ian1973]

Originally Posted by DCG

Then bye an M2.

I want the next versions BMW M3 & M4 to have Rear Bias All Wheel M xDrive! And all BMW M Division has to do is install a button for those of you who only want real wheel drive at times.

Here in New York State I want and NEED the amazing xDrive because we have four seasons to deal with.

Not sure where you are in NY, but I'm mid way up the state, I do not feel I need AWD to cope with seasons. I could entertain the idea for dry traction however, having lived with the F80 for 3 years. But I don't like the idea of more transfer cases and the power they take away.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

I hope you get to re-assess your position before it gets expensive for you.

When you have around 10% of the traction a good winter tire will give you, skills tend to take a background position when the car starts moving in unpredictable directions and you're just along for the ride.

With freezing temperatures, summer tires are a problem even on dead dry pavement.

Way the heck back in the '80s in our first Audi, it took a couple of pucker-factor close calls before all this could penetrate my thick skull.

Yup. each "save" isn't an indicator of skill at that point. it is an indicator of a very risky situation that could have been avoided

My understanding from reading the euro delivery literature is that in winter months in Germany, if there's an accident and one of the drivers has summer tires, that driver is automatically at fault. I really dislike unnecessary gov regulation but that one actually seems close to "common sense"

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by Kimeran

He does all of his rolling tests like this.
Car in full auto, daily mode and mash the throttle.

Completely pointless test I feel, the car with the most responsive gearbox is gonna take it almost all of the time.

But that's the point of the test he explains that in the videos, it's not pointless to test which car has the most responsive gearbox, as that's the test....

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Wills2

But that's the point of the test he explains that in the videos, it's not pointless to test which car has the most responsive gearbox, as that's the test....

The fact that he explains it does not make it less insignificant

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The fact that he explains it does not make it less insignificant

Really? Gearbox response is significant as far as I'm concerned.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Wills2

But that's the point of the test he explains that in the videos, it's not pointless to test which car has the most responsive gearbox, as that's the test....

And for the majority that drive dual clutch cars most of the time in manual mode. The way they set the transmission to do roll tests it rather dumb. Anyone doing roll racing is not operating the gearbox like that in real life. They are going for the kill. Not in auto mode like how your wife drives the car if she is borrowing it for the day.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

To be fair, he did use Launch Control in two of the three standing starts... The Quattro Audis simply rip from a dig and can do it consistently.

Nothing much to argue, awd will win every time. Especially on a non-prepped surface.

I wouldn’t doubt the cheaper RS3 would beat both of them in that situation.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

And for the majority that drive dual clutch cars most of the time in manual mode. The way they set the transmission to do roll tests it rather dumb. Anyone doing roll racing is not operating the gearbox like that in real life. They are going for the kill. Not in auto mode like how your wife drives the car if she is borrowing it for the day.

LOL I think you're over thinking this, most people cruise down the motorway in D not S, it's just a test of how quickly the various cars kick down in response to the accelerator being slammed down, which is a valid test of the various DCT/DSG/PDK/ZF "auto" gearboxes.

Believe me I do 30k a year in my M3 I don't sit there in S3 at 70mph in 3rd at 5am in the morning waiting to go for the kill.....

Going for the kill?!......

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

Nothing much to argue, awd will win every time. Especially on a non-prepped surface.

I wouldn’t doubt the cheaper RS3 would beat both of them in that situation.

I'll find out for myself pretty soon. Next week, I'll have both in my driveway (RS3 and M4CS)

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Wills2

LOL I think you're over thinking this, most people cruise down the motorway in D not S, it's just a test of how quickly the various cars kick down in response to the accelerator being slammed down, which is a valid test of the various DCT/DSG/PDK/ZF "auto" gearboxes.

I'm not over thinking this. They are roll racing, not providing kickdown testing. Most people don't drive down the freeway and race to 130+mph, it is illegal. The people that do illegal street racing are specifically roll racing and are in manual mode(in the correct gear in both cars). They are not in auto mode, in a high gear waiting for it to drop a gear. That is stupid.

Originally Posted by Wills2

Believe me I do 30k a year in my M3 I don't sit there in S3 at 70mph in 3rd at 5am in the morning waiting to go for the kill.....

Going for the kill?!......

Because you are not setting up a roll race like they are, on a closed track. They are racing, not commuting to work.

Have you not attended a roll racing event? I suggest you do, they are quite fun.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

I'm not over thinking this. They are roll racing, not providing kickdown testing. No one drives down the freeway and races to 130+mph, it is illegal. The people that do break the law are roll racing and are in manual mode(in the correct gear in both cars). They are not in auto mode, in a high gear waiting for it to drop a gear. That is stupid.

Regardless of wait cars they put in their videos, they are not replicating anything that would occur in real life.

Oh I think you are, you talk about people being ready to "go for the kill" and then start talking about speeding being illegal? Please....

I'll try to make it clear for you....

It is a test of which gearbox in the standard mode is quickest to change down on the motorway/freeway when you put your foot down, that's it nothing more, nothing less...it cannot be that hard to understand.

Forget about the other guy or beating him, lets say he doesn't exist (does that help?) You're rolling down the freeway and the traffic clears in front of you and you fancy a blast against no one, you get that bit right? No winning, no prizes, you just want to extend the legs of your car? Are you with me? No button pressing, no fannying about with settings you just want to go, do you want a gearbox that is slow to respond? Or one that reacts crisply to your command inputs on the throttle?

Well this test shows you which car responds well in those circumstances, ones that I find myself in frequently, stop thinking about the "race" and "winning" and think about the test and the outcome.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Wills2

Oh I think you are, you talk about people being ready to "go for the kill" and then start talking about speeding being illegal? Please....

They are roll racing on a closed track. When roll racing occurs at events or setting up illegal street races, you are trying to win...aka going for the kill.

Originally Posted by Wills2

It is a test of which gearbox in the standard mode is quickest to change down on the motorway/freeway when you put your foot down, that's it nothing more, nothing less...it cannot be that hard to understand.

So the races after the dig races are actually "gearbox" testing runs. Ok...go it.

The video is titled..."BMW M3 CS vs Audi RS4 - review & DRAG RACE, ROLLING RACE & BRAKE TEST"

Not titled..."BMW M3 CS vs Audi RS4 - review & DRAG RACE, GEARBOX TEST & BRAKE TEST"

Originally Posted by Wills2

Forget about the other guy or beating him, lets say he doesn't exist (does that help?) You're rolling down the freeway and the traffic clears in front of you and you fancy a blast against no one...

You are trying to create an imaginary scenario that they are supposed to be replicating. It is car vs car, on a closed track. The title of the video couldn't say it anymore clearly...it is a drag racing, roll racing, and brake test video. All your trying to do is make excuses for their flawed testing methods.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Lmfao. Famous last words.

It can be done with minimal drama if one knows how to drive sensibly in snow. It's obviously not a good plan, but if you're caught without snows in an early or late season snow storm, you can get home with xdrive. By comparison, if you just put the summer tires on your favorite rwd car, and you're caught off guard by a spring snow storm, don't even bother driving it out of the garage.

Reality is, often times, misrepresented on the internet. This even includes some of the articles published in our favorite blogs and periodicals.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Fuller

It can be done with minimal drama if one knows how to drive sensibly in snow. It's obviously not a good plan, but if you're caught without snows in an early or late season snow storm, you can get home with xdrive. By comparison, if you just put the summer tires on your favorite rwd car, and you're caught off guard by a spring snow storm, don't even bother driving it out of the garage.

Reality is, often times, misrepresented on the internet. This even includes some of the articles published in our favorite blogs and periodicals.

On actual summer tires? If that is what you are saying I 100% disagree AWD or not.

I got caught in a late April snow storm here with my 335 xDrive on PSS and it was the scariest drive I’ve ever done. You can’t stop or change directions without drama period. Cold dry/wet on PSS sure, but any kind of snow no way.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by minn19

On actual summer tires? If that is what you are saying I 100% disagree AWD or not.

I got caught in a late April snow storm here with my 335 xDrive on PSS and it was the scariest drive I’ve ever done. You can’t stop or change directions without drama period. Cold dry/wet on PSS sure, but any kind of snow no way.

As I said, it's not advisable, but sometimes we all get caught off guard. In my experience, I was able to get around on sloppy roads after a significant snow storm (approx 6-12 inches) with summer tires on an xdrive. I drove slowly and very cautiously. Begin braking well in advance, don't take sudden turns etc. for the most part, the car still smashed through the snow without serious incident or drama, summer tires and all.

I don't know why you had such a different experience. Maybe your tires were older and more worn? Also, my tires were oem run flat summer tires. It could be that they were more forgiving than regular go flat summer tires. It might also have been colder where you were when you got caught with summer tires. Temperature has the greatest negative effect on summer tire performance. In other words, I'm thinking that lightly snow covered roads during frigid temps might be worse on the wrong tires than heavier snow on warmer roads.

Anyway, I'm not saying that driving in winter weather with summer tires is advisable. Of course it's not. I'm just saying, in the event you get caught in bad conditions, awd still seems to offer a better chance of getting out ok - provided that one drives with extreme caution (like everyone should regardless of tires, awd, fwd, or rwd).

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Fuller

As I said, it's not advisable, but sometimes we all get caught off guard. In my experience, I was able to get around on sloppy roads after a significant snow storm (approx 6-12 inches) with summer tires on an xdrive. I drove slowly and very cautiously. Begin braking well in advance, don't take sudden turns etc. for the most part, the car still smashed through the snow without serious incident or drama, summer tires and all.

I don't know why you had such a different experience. Maybe your tires were older and more worn? Also, my tires were oem run flat summer tires. It could be that they were more forgiving than regular go flat summer tires. It might also have been colder where you were when you got caught with summer tires. Temperature has the greatest negative effect on summer tire performance. In other words, I'm thinking that lightly snow covered roads during frigid temps might be worse on the wrong tires than heavier snow on warmer roads.

Anyway, I'm not saying that driving in winter weather with summer tires is advisable. Of course it's not. I'm just saying, in the event you get caught in bad conditions, awd still seems to offer a better chance of getting out ok - provided that one drives with extreme caution (like everyone should regardless of tires, awd, fwd, or rwd).

I’m sorry, but I don’t believe you were on actual summer tires, but I do believe all seasons. Otherwise you were going nowhere in 6-12 inches of sloppy snow xDrive or not.

[Kimeran]

Originally Posted by Wills2

Oh I think you are, you talk about people being ready to "go for the kill" and then start talking about speeding being illegal? Please....

I'll try to make it clear for you....

It is a test of which gearbox in the standard mode is quickest to change down on the motorway/freeway when you put your foot down, that's it nothing more, nothing less...it cannot be that hard to understand.

Forget about the other guy or beating him, lets say he doesn't exist (does that help?) You're rolling down the freeway and the traffic clears in front of you and you fancy a blast against no one, you get that bit right? No winning, no prizes, you just want to extend the legs of your car? Are you with me? No button pressing, no fannying about with settings you just want to go, do you want a gearbox that is slow to respond? Or one that reacts crisply to your command inputs on the throttle?

Well this test shows you which car responds well in those circumstances, ones that I find myself in frequently, stop thinking about the "race" and "winning" and think about the test and the outcome.

While I completely understand where you're coming from, and agree that that is part of their reasons for doing the tests in the way that they do it, the rest of the rolling race is kinda pointless then.
If all they are trying to prove is which gearbox reacts the quickest to driver input, then just jump on the throttle and see which car gets going first and end the race after that.
If you wanna see which car is quicker once traction issues are removed out from the equation (which we all want to see), then they should have a proper race with both cars in the correct gear, rpm etc.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by minn19

I'm sorry, but I don't believe you were on actual summer tires, but I do believe all seasons. Otherwise you were going nowhere in 6-12 inches of sloppy snow xDrive or not.

I'm 100% certain that they were the oem run flat, summer tires. There's no question about it. Off-hand, there are several reasons I can imagine why you're experience was different (as listed in my previous post).

So yes, I've been caught off guard and I drove on snowy roads with an xdrive on summer tires. I got through it without ever losing control of the car. The tires were NOT all season radiaIs, or anything of the sort. They were summer tires. I realize this runs counter to everything ever posted on a car forum. It doesn't correlate with any of the results ever generated in published tire comparison tests either. Actually, this can't be explained by general relativity, quantum mechanics, or even string theory, but it happened. Perhaps it should be filed under paranormal....

Disclaimer: I'm not advocating for using summer tires in winter road conditions. I'm merely saying that, it happened to me, and this was my experience.