I drove an M4 CS and it reminded me of a muscle car

[cotmfk]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Handling is a generic term. There are multiple aspects to "handling".

Chassis balance, shock tuning , G limits, etc.

While the F chassis has great understeer/oversteer balance, it's rebound shock tuning sucks. I moved to Ohlins coil overs to make the rear-end behave.

FTFY. Ohlins are wonderful and on my mod list. Probably one of my favorite mods on one of my previous cars.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

While some people sit in front of a computer screen and criticize suspension/damping/whatever of the F8X, others are laying down ridiculous times with the stock suspension.

You're on the west coast so not familiar with Watkins Glen, but a 2:06 laptime on street tires and stock suspension is quite fast.

Agreed!!!!!

[dezzracer]

Drive an M3 CS if you get the chance. Say what you will about the price but the sum of the parts and the calibrations of that car make it.... well, I have no words. :

[bmwdrive]

I noticed a couple of M4's on the road the last couple of days. Muscle car or not, damn the thing looks good. Drool.... I'm trying to decide if I should order one now while I still can before the new model takes over.

[Tonyfsu21]

Originally Posted by danf72

I test drove an M4 CS a few weeks ago. It was a very short test drive so my impressions aren't all that reliable. But the car reminded me of my friend's old Vette. It felt like a beast, not like a super sharp handling German car.

Am I totally off base? Is the base M4 different?

I've owned the M4CS for 3 months now & have owned the past 3 gens of M3's and I would have to disagree. This car does not in any way feel like a "muscle car". The CS feels exactly as advertised and is a refined M3/M4. The handling is better, the exhaust sounds better and it looks better!

[GhostyM]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I've owned an E46 M3 for almost 7 years and an E92 for 6 years. I'm now in my 5th year of F82 ownership (4 years in a 2015 and now one year with my CS). All my ///Ms served the dual duty of 4-season daily drivers and track toys (with 16~20 track days per season). I certainly don't agree with your statement.

While I truly loved all my ///Ms before it, my M4cs is the best ///M I've owned thus far. It is a better daily driver and a better track car than all of them. The chassis is very well connected and the engine has a very solid pull.

As for MB and Audi "closing the gap", I would read up a little on history, as it's always been a tight battle between these three right from the onset since the E30 M3 era, with each brand holding true to it's roots.

I'm confused by your reply, you are bringing up things that don't really answer my comment.

I said the M4 is numb, brute-force power and lacks the specialty of the previous generations of ///M's.. is that not true? Nowhere did I mention that it wasn't a good daily, because it's a great daily, but so is a 3 series.

We're overlooking the fact of what was alluring about the brand pre-2014 and that's what I'm referring to.

I just said that what made the previous ///M's special definitely stuck out amongst the competition whereas now, it's a wash and it's not unique. Value is given to having something unique about it. What's unique about a F8x? It does everything the competition does exactly the same. You can't honestly tell me that an M4 is going to be sought after about 5 years from now, I think E9x cars will overtake them in value down the road.

It's cool and all that you've only driven M cars for the last 15 years or so, but I haven't and have driven almost every brand under the sun to some degree so I recommend you take some time and drive some other recent cars, I guarantee you'd be surprised. And I'm not only talking RS and AMG, I'd go as far as say a GT350 Mustang is a better "what made an ///M an ///M special" car. M3/M4's are supposed to feel unique, and it feels like a M340i with coil overs.

Gap? Oh please, E46 was widely regarded as the better drivers car and was unique, same with the E92.. the gap was closed significantly in the F8x generation, and now with the impending ugly as **** G series M3.. it's all over for BMW.

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Care to explain to me what "original appeal" you're referring to? I guess we can all agree to disagree. I don't think the ///M feels anything close to a muscle car. Muscle cars tend to be a lot less refined - albeit fast and loud - than what we experience driving an ///M. Then again, I guess that would depend on how you define a muscle car. I've heard people refer to ///M's of the last two decades as too refined and not visceral enough. That cannot be said about a true muscle car.

Original appeal being it's unique powertrains. And I know the S55 is technically "unique", but it's basically a rebadged N55 in specs and sounds worse.

Mechanical steering (I could see why they did away with this), the drivetrain and motor being special (not just the fact that it's a different motor but actually having appeal with it such as a RS3 and their 5 cylinder, AMG with their 4.0 TT V8, GT350 with their high revving V8 etc). Basically, older M's are special. SO many manufacturers are making their performance trims special (such as the references I made above this sentence) but the one that started it for me was BMW and it's not the case anymore. Almost every car brand currently has SOMETHING special under the hood nowadays, and BMW just has a farty sounding I6.

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

There is no comparison today, as there was no comparison back in the stone age with the good old E9X

The RS continues to be a complete joke of a car if you are interested in a sport car. If you just wanted a more powerful A4 then it delivers.

The C63 now weighs a cool 4000lb. So like a M4 convertible. I've actually tracked the current gen one. People need to share what they're on if they think this is a competitor of the F8X M


I'm a big fan of the E9X generation. I still have two of them and one is a 4.6L stroker, however, it is undeniable that the CS is a big step forward in most things other than steering feel and sound. It is incredibly capable. With stock suspension it can do a 2:06 lap of WGI on street tires... pretty damn fast.


Personally I bemoan the loss of the nice hydraulic steering as well as N/A engines, but unfortunately the world has moved on and those two things don't really exist anymore. And seeing how great the S55 performs I can't murmur too much. For a turbo engine it is extraordinarily linear and has excellent power delivery

The RS has a nicer interior, better ride and arguably sounds better. Sure it's not as fast, but who gives a crap about 1/10ths here and there.
AMG is far away the best daily driver in my opinion. It has a better interior, arguably looks just as pretty as the M4, sounds amazing and makes quick and easy power with mods (similar to the M4).
My M4 had squeaks and rattles, and a better version of the M4 is now a M2 Competition. If they made the M4 feel like the M2 Comp, I wouldn't even complain.

I don't track my daily drivers personally, I will on the other hand track a car that is MADE for a track.

Look, I know I'm on the M side of the fence on this forum, but man people are so jaded in regards to the F8x it's actually crazy. They always talk about it like it's the holy grail, when in reality, it's just a great daily driver that is a bit faster than a normal version of itself, whereas before, it was a COMPLETELY unique experience to be in an ///M car. E60 M5 vs standard 5 series. E46 M3 vs 330ci. E92 M3 vs 335i. Completely a different echelon of car. The M was always the GT3 to the Carrera. Now it's more of a Carrera S to a Carrera.

[Alan l.]

Others have their opinion and you have yours. Some like chocolate and some like Vanilla. No point trying to convince the other is better.

I’ve owed/driven a lot of Bmws in the last 20 years both M and non M cars and I completely disagree that the F80 feels like a 340 on coil overs. My brother has a 340 and I’ve driven it plenty of times. It feels nothing like my F80. Not even close.

People that has owned multiple generation of these cars opinions carries much more weight for me than someone who hasn’t. Just my 2cents.

Alan

[GhostyM]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

Others have their opinion and you have yours. Some like chocolate and some like Vanilla. No point trying to convince the other is better just because you think so.

I’ve owed/driven a lot of Bmws in the last 20 years both M and non M cars and I completely disagree that the F80 feels like a 340 on coil overs. My brother has a 340 and I’ve driven it plenty of times. It feels nothing like my F80. Not even close.

People that has owned multiple generation of these cars opinions carries much more weight for me than someone who hasn’t. Just my 2cents.

Alan

I have owned a E46 M3 (06-08), 2 generations of E92 M3(08-14), and a (15-16) F82 M4. Combined total of maybe 10 years of ownership as my main form of transportation.

While you say it doesn't feel like a M4 to drive an M340i.. and that is true, the differentiation between the two isn't night and day.

I'm not here to argue and say an M4 sucks, because that's not true at all. I'm just saying it's not special at all to really drive when compared to others in the segment.

Also have you seen the new G series M3 leak? That's the last nail in the coffin 100%.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

I'm confused by your reply, you are bringing up things that don't really answer my comment.

I said the M4 is numb, brute-force power and lacks the specialty of the previous generations of ///M's.. is that not true? Nowhere did I mention that it wasn't a good daily, because it's a great daily, but so is a 3 series.

We're overlooking the fact of what was alluring about the brand pre-2014 and that's what I'm referring to.

I just said that what made the previous ///M's special definitely stuck out amongst the competition whereas now, it's a wash and it's not unique. Value is given to having something unique about it. What's unique about a F8x? It does everything the competition does exactly the same. You can't honestly tell me that an M4 is going to be sought after about 5 years from now, I think E9x cars will overtake them in value down the road.

It's cool and all that you've only driven M cars for the last 15 years or so, but I haven't and have driven almost every brand under the sun to some degree so I recommend you take some time and drive some other recent cars, I guarantee you'd be surprised. And I'm not only talking RS and AMG, I'd go as far as say a GT350 Mustang is a better "what made an ///M an ///M special" car. M3/M4's are supposed to feel unique, and it feels like a M340i with coil overs.

Gap? Oh please, E46 was widely regarded as the better drivers car and was unique, same with the E92.. the gap was closed significantly in the F8x generation, and now with the impending ugly as **** G series M3.. it's all over for BMW.



Original appeal being it's unique powertrains. And I know the S55 is technically "unique", but it's basically a rebadged N55 in specs and sounds worse.

Mechanical steering (I could see why they did away with this), the drivetrain and motor being special (not just the fact that it's a different motor but actually having appeal with it such as a RS3 and their 5 cylinder, AMG with their 4.0 TT V8, GT350 with their high revving V8 etc). Basically, older M's are special. SO many manufacturers are making their performance trims special (such as the references I made above this sentence) but the one that started it for me was BMW and it's not the case anymore. Almost every car brand currently has SOMETHING special under the hood nowadays, and BMW just has a farty sounding I6.




The RS has a nicer interior, better ride and arguably sounds better. Sure it's not as fast, but who gives a crap about 1/10ths here and there.
AMG is far away the best daily driver in my opinion. It has a better interior, arguably looks just as pretty as the M4, sounds amazing and makes quick and easy power with mods (similar to the M4).
My M4 had squeaks and rattles, and a better version of the M4 is now a M2 Competition. If they made the M4 feel like the M2 Comp, I wouldn't even complain.

I don't track my daily drivers personally, I will on the other hand track a car that is MADE for a track.

Look, I know I'm on the M side of the fence on this forum, but man people are so jaded in regards to the F8x it's actually crazy. They always talk about it like it's the holy grail, when in reality, it's just a great daily driver that is a bit faster than a normal version of itself, whereas before, it was a COMPLETELY unique experience to be in an ///M car. E60 M5 vs standard 5 series. E46 M3 vs 330ci. E92 M3 vs 335i. Completely a different echelon of car. The M was always the GT3 to the Carrera. Now it's more of a Carrera S to a Carrera.

99.9% of this is purely subjective, not definitive. It's merely your opinion. Some will agree while others will disagree. Nobody is wrong nor right. You felt that the E9X M3, for example, was special. The V8 was great, but the car wasn't memorable to me. It's actually my least favorite of the last few generations.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

I'm confused by your reply, you are bringing up things that don't really answer my comment.

I said the M4 is numb, brute-force power and lacks the specialty of the previous generations of ///M's.. is that not true? Nowhere did I mention that it wasn't a good daily, because it's a great daily, but so is a 3 series.

We're overlooking the fact of what was alluring about the brand pre-2014 and that's what I'm referring to.

I just said that what made the previous ///M's special definitely stuck out amongst the competition whereas now, it's a wash and it's not unique. Value is given to having something unique about it. What's unique about a F8x? It does everything the competition does exactly the same. You can't honestly tell me that an M4 is going to be sought after about 5 years from now, I think E9x cars will overtake them in value down the road.

It's cool and all that you've only driven M cars for the last 15 years or so, but I haven't and have driven almost every brand under the sun to some degree so I recommend you take some time and drive some other recent cars, I guarantee you'd be surprised. And I'm not only talking RS and AMG, I'd go as far as say a GT350 Mustang is a better "what made an ///M an ///M special" car. M3/M4's are supposed to feel unique, and it feels like a M340i with coil overs.

Gap? Oh please, E46 was widely regarded as the better drivers car and was unique, same with the E92.. the gap was closed significantly in the F8x generation, and now with the impending ugly as **** G series M3.. it's all over for BMW.



Original appeal being it's unique powertrains. And I know the S55 is technically "unique", but it's basically a rebadged N55 in specs and sounds worse.

Mechanical steering (I could see why they did away with this), the drivetrain and motor being special (not just the fact that it's a different motor but actually having appeal with it such as a RS3 and their 5 cylinder, AMG with their 4.0 TT V8, GT350 with their high revving V8 etc). Basically, older M's are special. SO many manufacturers are making their performance trims special (such as the references I made above this sentence) but the one that started it for me was BMW and it's not the case anymore. Almost every car brand currently has SOMETHING special under the hood nowadays, and BMW just has a farty sounding I6.




The RS has a nicer interior, better ride and arguably sounds better. Sure it's not as fast, but who gives a crap about 1/10ths here and there.
AMG is far away the best daily driver in my opinion. It has a better interior, arguably looks just as pretty as the M4, sounds amazing and makes quick and easy power with mods (similar to the M4).
My M4 had squeaks and rattles, and a better version of the M4 is now a M2 Competition. If they made the M4 feel like the M2 Comp, I wouldn't even complain.

I don't track my daily drivers personally, I will on the other hand track a car that is MADE for a track.

Look, I know I'm on the M side of the fence on this forum, but man people are so jaded in regards to the F8x it's actually crazy. They always talk about it like it's the holy grail, when in reality, it's just a great daily driver that is a bit faster than a normal version of itself, whereas before, it was a COMPLETELY unique experience to be in an ///M car. E60 M5 vs standard 5 series. E46 M3 vs 330ci. E92 M3 vs 335i. Completely a different echelon of car. The M was always the GT3 to the Carrera. Now it's more of a Carrera S to a Carrera.

Well I am saying that, in my opinion, the current gen F8X M3/4 is the better car of any M3 generation before it. The design intent for the M3 since its inception is to serve the dual duty of practical daily driver and track toy. The F8X is the best one thus far at both uses. If I only wanted I daily driver, I wouldn't be driving an M4, as it is not the best daily driver available.

And yes, I have driven the competition. I test drive them at every generation to see if one better suits my needs. I'd say both the C63 and RS4/5 were/are often better daily drivers than the M3/4. However, none of them have matched the M3/4 track readiness and performance thus far. And being and avid track hobbyist, this is why I keep coming back to the M3/4. It is the car that best suits my overall needs. I dont find the F8X to be more or less “unique” in relation to the competition versus previous models.

I agree that the the F8X lost a little soul, particularly due to the turbocharged engine and due to more sound insulation. But the chassis is fantastic, much better than the E46 and E92. I also find that the CS has brought back much of that "soul" that I found missing in my 2015 M4, with an even more compliant and responsive chassis, much improved steering feel and less sound deadening (more mechanical sounds, not only from the engine).

In my opinion, the dullest M3 I have driven thus far is US version of the E36. Not much of a special car with an engine with very little character.

And BTW, the S54 in your beloved E46 is no less a rebadged M54 than the S55 is a rebadged N55 . The only true built from the ground up ///M engines were the S65 and S85.

[GhostyM]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Well I am saying that, in my opinion, the current gen F8X M3/4 is the better car of any M3 generation before it. The design intent for the M3 since its inception is to serve the dual duty of practical daily driver and track toy. The F8X is the best one thus far at both uses. If I only wanted I daily driver, I wouldn't be driving an M4, as it is not the best daily driver available.

And yes, I have driven the competition. I test drive them at every generation to see if one better suits my needs. I'd say both the C63 and RS4/5 were/are often better daily drivers than the M3/4. However, none of them have matched the M3/4 track readiness and performance thus far. And being and avid track hobbyist, this is why I keep coming back to the M3/4. It is the car that best suits my overall needs. I dont find the F8X to be more or less “unique” in relation to the competition versus previous models.

I agree that the the F8X lost a little soul, particularly due to the turbocharged engine and due to more sound insulation. But the chassis is fantastic, much better than the E46 and E92. I also find that the CS has brought back much of that "soul" that I found missing in my 2015 M4, with an even more compliant and responsive chassis, much improved steering feel and less sound deadening (more mechanical sounds, not only from the engine).

In my opinion, the dullest M3 I have driven thus far is US version of the E36. Not much of a special car with an engine with very little character.

And BTW, the S54 in your beloved E46 is no less a rebadged M54 than the S55 is a rebadged N55 . The only true built from the ground up ///M engines were the S65 and S85.

Maybe this is just me, but I don't really like ///M cars on track. The money is better spent on a Miata or a purpose built track car and have "daily driver" duties delegated to which cars do it best which is AMG's in my opinion. You get the crazy power, noise and speed, while compromising a bit of track "performance". I'd also argue most people who track their daily drivers are in the .01% minority of the drivers who do that.

I don't spend money in a car for what I'll do 0.01% of the time, I'll spend it on the 99.9%. I do agree that it is a MUCH better overall experience than the previous generations of ///M's in terms of viability for every day purposes, and when you consider the 99.9% who will treat it as a DD, I don't see anything wrong there for sure.

US E36 was completely neutered. No idea why, they should have gave us the S50B32.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

Maybe this is just me, but I don't really like ///M cars on track. The money is better spent on a Miata or a purpose built track car and have "daily driver" duties delegated to which cars do it best which is AMG's in my opinion. You get the crazy power, noise and speed, while compromising a bit of track "performance". I'd also argue most people who track their daily drivers are in the .01% minority of the drivers who do that.

I don't spend money in a car for what I'll do 0.01% of the time, I'll spend it on the 99.9%. I do agree that it is a MUCH better overall experience than the previous generations of ///M's in terms of viability for every day purposes, and when you consider the 99.9% who will treat it as a DD, I don't see anything wrong there for sure.

US E36 was completely neutered. No idea why, they should have gave us the S50B32.

Honestly, the performance offered in the M3/4, C63, RS4/5 segment is completely wasted for a daily driver. One cannot even come close to the performance limits of such vehicle and stay within sane speeds on the street.

I've done purpose built track cars in my younger years, and I am done with that. I love the concept of arrive-and-drive with a fully warrantied vehicle. Been doing it for the past 18 years and loving it.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

I have owned a E46 M3 (06-08), 2 generations of E92 M3(08-14), and a (15-16) F82 M4. Combined total of maybe 10 years of ownership as my main form of transportation.

While you say it doesn't feel like a M4 to drive an M340i.. and that is true, the differentiation between the two isn't night and day.

I'm not here to argue and say an M4 sucks, because that's not true at all. I'm just saying it's not special at all to really drive when compared to others in the segment.

Also have you seen the new G series M3 leak? That's the last nail in the coffin 100%.

You've made many good points but I largely disagree with you. I've owned numerous E36Ms, numerous E46Ms, an E90M and now on my second F8X ZCP and the current car BLOWS the older cars away. It is by far the biggest relative jump from the previous gen. I still have an E46M inn the garage so I am in a rare position to be able to drive them back to back. The current car is so rigid, so planted, SO precise and direct, so responsive, so fast and so sexy. As a package, it is massively superior. I actually had the E90 at the same time as my F80Z for a short period and it was ridiculous how little interest I had in the former - it was instantly forgotten.

Yes, the older cars were maybe a little more unique or special on paper but that means jack squat on the road. What matters is how the car delivers and the current car takes the cake.

Ironically, the E9XM is probably the most exotic/special of them all but guess what? It's the most underwhelming as a street car. Had that car for 6 months.....extremely frustrating DD. It felt slow and underpowered 75% of the time. 46M never feels that way.... much better delivery, but I digress.

You are hung up on technicalities and not what matters - driving the car. Is the F80 perfect? Nope. Is it as big a relative difference to the 340 as a 46M was to say a ZHP? Maybe, maybe not but who gives a crap. Life moves on. The F80 is off the hook good. And suggesting that the S55 is "just an I6" is ridiculous - that motor is simply amazing to drive. The part throttle precision and resolution are far superior to an S54 or S65 and they are DAMN good.

Edit - while I agree that the E9XM felt totally different than the 335 I would argue that the latter had better steering (lacked the BS variable assist that started with the e90m and persists today) and felt considerably faster around town. So there was a big gap but not necessarily in good ways.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

You've made many good points but I largely disagree with you. I've owned numerous E36Ms, numerous E46Ms, an E90M and now on my second F8X ZCP and the current car BLOWS the older cars away. It is by far the biggest relative jump from the previous gen. I still have an E46M inn the garage so I am in a rare position to be able to drive them back to back. The current car is so rigid, so planted, SO precise and direct, so responsive, so fast and so sexy. As a package, it is massively superior. I actually had the E90 at the same time as my F80Z for a short period and it was ridiculous how little interest I had in the former - it was instantly forgotten.

Yes, the older cars were maybe a little more unique or special on paper but that means jack squat on the road. What matters is how the car delivers and the current car takes the cake.

Ironically, the E9XM is probably the most exotic/special of them all but guess what? It's the most underwhelming as a street car. Had that car for 6 months.....extremely frustrating DD. It felt slow and underpowered 75% of the time. 46M never feels that way.... much better delivery, but I digress.

You are hung up on technicalities on not what matters - driving the car. Is the F80 perfect? Nope. Is it as big a relative difference to the 340 as a 46M was to say a ZHP? Maybe, maybe not but who gives a crap. Life moves on. The F80 is off the hook good. And suggesting that the S55 is "just an I6" is ridiculous - that motor is simply amazing to drive. The part throttle precision and resolution are far superior to an S54 or S65 and they are DAMN good.

Edit - while I agree that the E9XM felt totally different than the 335 I would argue that the latter had better steering (lacked the BS variable assist that started with the e90m and persists today) and felt considerably faster around town. So there was a big gap but not necessarily in good ways.

Bravo! So well articulated that I shed a little tear. I couldn't have stated it any better.

[Ex_Stig]

I've owned, and tracked, the E46 M3, the E9X M3 and now my M3 CS. Of the three, I felt that the E9X was the worst one.

It felt heavy and slow. I lightly tuned 335i of the same year could easily destroy it.

My CS is the favorite for both daily driving and track duty. After that would be the E46.

[gripenM]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

You've made many good points but I largely disagree with you. I've owned numerous E36Ms, numerous E46Ms, an E90M and now on my second F8X ZCP and the current car BLOWS the older cars away. It is by far the biggest relative jump from the previous gen. I still have an E46M inn the garage so I am in a rare position to be able to drive them back to back. The current car is so rigid, so planted, SO precise and direct, so responsive, so fast and so sexy. As a package, it is massively superior. I actually had the E90 at the same time as my F80Z for a short period and it was ridiculous how little interest I had in the former - it was instantly forgotten.

Yes, the older cars were maybe a little more unique or special on paper but that means jack squat on the road. What matters is how the car delivers and the current car takes the cake.

Ironically, the E9XM is probably the most exotic/special of them all but guess what? It's the most underwhelming as a street car. Had that car for 6 months.....extremely frustrating DD. It felt slow and underpowered 75% of the time. 46M never feels that way.... much better delivery, but I digress.

You are hung up on technicalities and not what matters - driving the car. Is the F80 perfect? Nope. Is it as big a relative difference to the 340 as a 46M was to say a ZHP? Maybe, maybe not but who gives a crap. Life moves on. The F80 is off the hook good. And suggesting that the S55 is "just an I6" is ridiculous - that motor is simply amazing to drive. The part throttle precision and resolution are far superior to an S54 or S65 and they are DAMN good.

Edit - while I agree that the E9XM felt totally different than the 335 I would argue that the latter had better steering (lacked the BS variable assist that started with the e90m and persists today) and felt considerably faster around town. So there was a big gap but not necessarily in good ways.

well said, i agree with the E9x M3 being a frustrating daily driver.
Also just horrid on gas..

it's also interesting to read how most of us F8x owners come from owning several different generations of M3's.
The consensus seems to be that F8x is the the best overall package and by far the best out of all of them.

I felt the base M4 was the overall best M car to date, but the CS takes it a another step further

[matty088]

Dumbest thread in the history of car forums

[Jim B]

425 HP in a 3600 lb. car, the M4 IS a muscle car!! I love mine.

[2011zx10R]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

I have owned a E46 M3 (06-08), 2 generations of E92 M3(08-14), and a (15-16) F82 M4. Combined total of maybe 10 years of ownership as my main form of transportation.

While you say it doesn't feel like a M4 to drive an M340i.. and that is true, the differentiation between the two isn't night and day.

I'm not here to argue and say an M4 sucks, because that's not true at all. I'm just saying it's not special at all to really drive when compared to others in the segment.

Also have you seen the new G series M3 leak? That's the last nail in the coffin 100%.

Originally Posted by GhostyM

I have owned a E46 M3 (06-08), 2 generations of E92 M3(08-14), and a (15-16) F82 M4. Combined total of maybe 10 years of ownership as my main form of transportation.

While you say it doesn't feel like a M4 to drive an M340i.. and that is true, the differentiation between the two isn't night and day.

I'm not here to argue and say an M4 sucks, because that's not true at all. I'm just saying it's not special at all to really drive when compared to others in the segment.

Also have you seen the new G series M3 leak? That's the last nail in the coffin 100%.

Dude give it up... nothing touches the F80!

As my buddy would say

Point blank period


I'm glad I have an M3 the car speaks for itself...

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by GhostyM

I have owned a E46 M3 (06-08), 2 generations of E92 M3(08-14), and a (15-16) F82 M4. Combined total of maybe 10 years of ownership as my main form of transportation.

While you say it doesn't feel like a M4 to drive an M340i.. and that is true, the differentiation between the two isn't night and day.

I'm not here to argue and say an M4 sucks, because that's not true at all. I'm just saying it's not special at all to really drive when compared to others in the segment.

Also have you seen the new G series M3 leak? That's the last nail in the coffin 100%.

"Not special at all compared to others in the segment", yet, you didn't spend your money on the "others" and instead chose to purchase an M4 (...and multiple examples of two previous generations of M3 before that) and have spent the last decade in some form of M3. Hmmmm!! It sounds like your pocketbook and your words are at completely opposite vantage points. Out of curiosity, what other cars feel more special than the M3/4 in its respective segment? I ask that sincerely.

[ApexM4CS]

Just my opinion but I went from a base 2015 M4 to a 2019 M4 CS and it definitely feels lighter, tighter and faster.

[khanyam4]

Got them coach.