What have you done to aid cornering traction in the rear?

[Luckylou22123]

Hi guys,
I’m new to the F8X cars and love it so far. My problem is I’m coming from a 991 Carrera GTS and I’m so used to the rear end grip it has. Knowing the huge bump in torque will cause it to break traction I’m looking at making some changes to make it corner better on throttle. Before going to wider tires, has anyone played around with the suspension or alignment to achieve better rear grip in corners? If so I would love to hear what you did.

Thanks
Louis

[TRZ06]

Sorry to say, but you went from a platform known for being able to put the power down to a chassis that does a poor job at it.

Stickier tires help a little, bit only for about the first 20% of their tread life.

The F chassis has a muscle car mentality and characteristics.

[CanAutM3]

Is your car stock? If it is, I am not sure why you would want to increase rear cornering grip, because from the factory, the car is dialed towards understeer at the limit.

I did the opposite to improve handling, I increased front end grip bias through a more aggressive alignment (camber plated needed for that).

That being said, the car is also under tired from the factory. If you want to increase total grip to better leverage the S55's power coming out of corners, tires that offer more grip are the simplest and cheapest mod. But don't just do so in the rear or you'll end up with an understeering pig.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by Luckylou22123

Hi guys,
I’m new to the F8X cars and love it so far. My problem is I’m coming from a 991 Carrera GTS and I’m so used to the rear end grip it has. Knowing the huge bump in torque will cause it to break traction I’m looking at making some changes to make it corner better on throttle. Before going to wider tires, has anyone played around with the suspension or alignment to achieve better rear grip in corners? If so I would love to hear what you did.

Thanks
Louis

Change the tires to Michelin Pilot Sport 4S in the same sizes as stock. Trust me.

I do that same setup for my customers (standard M3s with 255/275 19" and Competition Package M3s with the 265/285 20"). In both cases, a tuned F80 M3 will spin tires easily in 2nd gear on the stock tires but will hook up very well even in 1st gear with the PS4S tires.

[Brasko]

I upgraded my anti-roll bar/sway bars on my M3 Comp Pack and have to say it is the best mod I have done. Cornering is flatter, grip is amazing and roll/pitch is reduced. I can roll into the throttle during a turn with much more confidence. Best part, no compromise in ride quality and no added NVH. I would definitely recommend.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Brasko

I upgraded my anti-roll bar/sway bars on my M3 Comp Pack and have to say it is the best mod I have done. Cornering is flatter, grip is amazing and roll/pitch is reduced. I can roll into the throttle during a turn with much more confidence. Best part, no compromise in ride quality and no added NVH. I would definitely recommend.

How can roll bars reduce pitch?

[rborane]

Originally Posted by Brasko

I upgraded my anti-roll bar/sway bars on my M3 Comp Pack and have to say it is the best mod I have done. Cornering is flatter, grip is amazing and roll/pitch is reduced. I can roll into the throttle during a turn with much more confidence. Best part, no compromise in ride quality and no added NVH. I would definitely recommend.

Which did you go with and for just rear or front also?

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

How can roll bars reduce pitch?

THIS!!!

Sway bars have no effect on the pitching axis of a car.

[Brasko]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

How can roll bars reduce pitch?

Have you ever removed a sway bar and noticed the weight transfer to the rear on acceleration? It is a popular modification in the drag race world. Give it a try and get back to me.

[Brasko]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

THIS!!!

Sway bars have no effect on the pitching axis of a car.

Have you ever removed a sway bar and noticed the weight transfer to the rear on acceleration? It is a popular modification in the drag race world. Give it a try and get back to me.

[Brasko]

Originally Posted by rborane

Which did you go with and for just rear or front also?

I upgraded both front and rear. The front are now AFE 32mm and the rear are 29mm. I did not like the acid orange color the bars came in so I dropped them off at a local powder coating shop and had them blasted and recoated with a satin black to match OEM components. The front roll bar is much more accessible. The rear is easier with a lift.

Pro Tip: Since I had the wheels/rotors off the vehicle already, I went ahead and did a Goodridge stainless steel brake line upgrade and brake fluid flush to complete my braking system.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by Brasko

Have you ever removed a sway bar and noticed the weight transfer to the rear on acceleration? It is a popular modification in the drag race world. Give it a try and get back to me.

Not happening.

Simple 3 Dimensional math

You have pitch, roll, yaw.

Springs control pitch and roll.

Sway bars control roll

Understeer/oversteer is your yaw axis.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Brasko

Have you ever removed a sway bar and noticed the weight transfer to the rear on acceleration? It is a popular modification in the drag race world. Give it a try and get back to me.

What you describe still relates to roll and not pitch. It is important not to confuse chassis movement with weight transfer.

[Brasko]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Not happening.

Simple 3 Dimensional math

You have pitch, roll, yaw.

Springs control pitch and roll.

Sway bars control roll

Understeer/oversteer is your yaw axis.

[Luckylou22123]

Thank you to everyone’s input. I will definitely change my tires out next summer and will look more into sway bars. I have a non-CP M3 and I did notice the competition pack have a slightly thicker sway bar. Also, I ended doing the alignment at a local tuner and I can feel it handle cornering better, but the rear is still prone to breaking lose. I also recoded it with CS specs for diff/ steering, etc but won’t know if it helped until warmer weather comes back. Thank everyone!

[991dc5]

Originally Posted by Luckylou22123

Thank you to everyone’s input. I will definitely change my tires out next summer and will look more into sway bars. I have a non-CP M3 and I did notice the competition pack have a slightly thicker sway bar. Also, I ended doing the alignment at a local tuner and I can feel it handle cornering better, but the rear is still prone to breaking lose. I also recoded it with CS specs for diff/ steering, etc but won’t know if it helped until warmer weather comes back. Thank everyone!

Hi,

I also came from a 991.1 C2S to a base F80. There is a huge learning curve in getting used to tracking a FR vs. RR.

What I have done are the following after tracking the F80 stock (it was a terrible experience btw since the car understeers going turning in, and oversteers on the way out)

-Gts diff flash
-JRZ RS2 (stock is imo under damped and under sprung)
-GC plates (-2.5 F camber -1.5 R camber/ 0 toe front and .07 toe per side on the rear)
-Powerflex diff bushings (probably one of my fav mod, stock bushings gave out before 20k miles and the rear was so twitchy because of it)
-TIRES (single best upgrade you can do for any car, I'm on stock sized RE71R because I'm on stock 437m. PSS are useless outside of street driving and stock power levels)

I'm not saying it's the best setup, but it has made the car predictable and balanced. Also coming from a 991 you have to be patient with the throttle corner exit in the M. The turn in response and grip in the front on a FR is something that was missing in the 911.

Lastly if you are tuned, find a map with a linear tq band as opposed to the typical stage 1 and stage 2 ots maps. Personally I run either stock or bm3 cs+ with tq reduction in the first 3 gears or bm3 stage 2 with 20% tq reduction in 1-4. I have also used the OFT flat tq map with great success.

[Luckylou22123]

Originally Posted by 991dc5

Hi,

I also came from a 991.1 C2S to a base F80. There is a huge learning curve in getting used to tracking a FR vs. RR.

What I have done are the following after tracking the F80 stock (it was a terrible experience btw since the car understeers going turning in, and oversteers on the way out)

-Gts diff flash
-JRZ RS2 (stock is imo under damped and under sprung)
-GC plates (-2.5 F camber -1.5 R camber/ 0 toe front and .07 toe per side on the rear)
-Powerflex diff bushings (probably one of my fav mod, stock bushings gave out before 20k miles and the rear was so twitchy because of it)
-TIRES (single best upgrade you can do for any car, I'm on stock sized RE71R because I'm on stock 437m. PSS are useless outside of street driving and stock power levels)

I'm not saying it's the best setup, but it has made the car predictable and balanced. Also coming from a 991 you have to be patient with the throttle corner exit in the M. The turn in response and grip in the front on a FR is something that was missing in the 911.

Lastly if you are tuned, find a map with a linear tq band as opposed to the typical stage 1 and stage 2 ots maps. Personally I run either stock or bm3 cs+ with tq reduction in the first 3 gears or bm3 stage 2 with 20% tq reduction in 1-4. I have also used the OFT flat tq map with great success.

Sooooo glad you mentioned all of that! I’m going to dig around and probably do all the mods you have since I also went with BM3 CS+ map.

I do realize you have to drive the car different, but the twitchy/loose feeling I get from the rear at random is unnerving! Hoping these mods will bring some confidence back.

Thanks!

[CAOZKAN]

Originally Posted by 991dc5

Hi,

I also came from a 991.1 C2S to a base F80. There is a huge learning curve in getting used to tracking a FR vs. RR.

What I have done are the following after tracking the F80 stock (it was a terrible experience btw since the car understeers going turning in, and oversteers on the way out)

-Gts diff flash
-JRZ RS2 (stock is imo under damped and under sprung)
-GC plates (-2.5 F camber -1.5 R camber/ 0 toe front and .07 toe per side on the rear)
-Powerflex diff bushings (probably one of my fav mod, stock bushings gave out before 20k miles and the rear was so twitchy because of it)
-TIRES (single best upgrade you can do for any car, I'm on stock sized RE71R because I'm on stock 437m. PSS are useless outside of street driving and stock power levels)

I'm not saying it's the best setup, but it has made the car predictable and balanced. Also coming from a 991 you have to be patient with the throttle corner exit in the M. The turn in response and grip in the front on a FR is something that was missing in the 911.

Lastly if you are tuned, find a map with a linear tq band as opposed to the typical stage 1 and stage 2 ots maps. Personally I run either stock or bm3 cs+ with tq reduction in the first 3 gears or bm3 stage 2 with 20% tq reduction in 1-4. I have also used the OFT flat tq map with great success.

I agree with Powerflex and I would add that one of the best mods I have done is GC rear control arms. They made the control of the car much easier even if the rear breaks loose and helped me achieve -3 camber on the rear which also helps too..

[mmmmQuattro]

Originally Posted by CAOZKAN

I agree with Powerflex and I would add that one of the best mods I have done is GC rear control arms. They made the control of the car much easier even if the rear breaks loose and helped me achieve -3 camber on the rear which also helps too..

-3 camber - don't you like your tyres?

[CAOZKAN]

Originally Posted by mmmmQuattro

-3 camber - don't you like your tyres?

I'm sorry you're right, I didn't mention that this is my track setup with Trofeo Rs...

[Shadow2]

Has anyone seen and/or used the new Turner dual mount differential plate?

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...-f8x-m2-m3-m4/

Thoughts?

[TRZ06]

The kicker though is that you have to put that much money and hardware into it in the first place to get it to behave.

I'm so done with BMW. They have lost focus.

1.5 years out of the M3 and into my SS 1LE, and I still am loving it.