savagegeese F80 M3 review - "One of the best things BMW has done in modern history"

[Serious]

"Alfa QV is a better car"

i'm convinced 80% of the people confidently saying this are doing so based on nothing more than youtube reviews and motor trend/C&D articles.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by minn19

Neither my M4 CS nor my MT ZCP had the rear sunshade, sunroof and both were on 763s when weighed. My ZCP also still had the CF no PPF.

The heinous looking 666 wheels were/are boat anchors so that I get for some of the incremental weights. PPF/no CF drive shaft makes sense as well.

DCT I've heard between 60-80 lbs alone.

According to BMW, DCT is 25kg (55lb).

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

im not sure why the discrepancies exist either. Its pretty well known the sunroof and DCT add about 100 pounds combined weight. but after that its a alot of smaller things

other things would be the carbon driveshaft which was recalled and changed with steel on the later model cars.

ppf particulate filter for emissions

wheel and tire combos for various packages. the 19" 437m and the 20" 763m CS wheel weights are about the same. But the 437 wheel has less tire i'd imagine.

rear sunshade and its motor

As a reference, the 763M 20” rear wheel is 0.5lb lighter than the 19” 437M rear wheel while the front 19” 763M is 1.6lb lighter than the 19” front 437M.

[jvit27]

Originally Posted by clee1982

Right, but that's kind a problem, no way we can push modern car at 9 /10th on public road without going to jail or endanger someone... I suppose that's the appeal of bike, you get a lot more sense even at low speed

Agreed, but then again people have always been modding their M3's for the street and building their M3's for HPDE's beyond their capability. Only difference is BMW just built a better one that can still be enjoyed daily.

At some point I think we either have to grow up with the car or try different things. There are more options than ever now and if you like the feel of the older cars better, by all means just keep running them!!

Originally Posted by Richbot

yuuuuup

The thing the F80 bugs me about is the whole frontend is a bit dead and artificial feeling, at least the one I drove on 18's/PSS was. It felt very much like there was an extra step somewhere in there sorting out how much to tell me about what the front tires are doing. I think that feeling may be the auto-damping/hysteresis program in the electric motor - that judder and grind you get through the wheel also comes through the pedals and the chassis - the steering was accurate but I couldn't get a read on what my next input would do, if that makes sense. It's a car dominated by what you can do with the tail and that's not a bad thing - the front is pretty damn well stuck from the factory which is impressive considering all the understeering messes BMW has sold us before - the steering isn't great but so much about it is that the tradeoffs are worth it. And the front end really is NAILED down compared to the old cars.

Anyway, once you put a proper wide front tire on the front of an FR car, feel starts to give way to how hard you can chuck it in without the back end coming around on you so your attention is all back in the back and the new car wrist-flick slide correction is such a huge improvement from the 90's and especially, the godawful E30 or even worse, unassisted Miata steering - lots of feel, needs a steering wheel spinner. Great fun on a road, liability on track

I've driven the Giulia, the C-class, but haven't tried the RCF - I get the feeling from other lexiii the RCF steering might be the one I like the most. Giulia's steering was good and sharp, but it was on cup tires soooo of course it was. F80's is right in there somewhere. It's not bad. It's just not a Porsche which makes sense, the frontend has to deal with a lot more

And, mommas, don't let your babies grow up to put too much rear tire on their cars, let them have driftos and donuts and such

Not sure what to say to that... but tires & dampers are the two things that dictate FEEL the most. And there are plenty of options in those departments to sort out what you're looking for

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by THEROK

It's too bad he picked the ugliest wheel setup possible on any modern BMW. RVs would be jealous of that aesthetic.

You mean on savagegeese's video? That's a friend's car with snow tires/wheels.

They actually look pretty good as they are OEMs I believe and might even be 19s.

[Keca10]

You can’t really review a sport car’s handling or steering based on a drive with winter tires.

F80 isn’t great but they made improvements over the years. I really have no complaints about my ZCP with Cup2 tires. Not awesome but doesn’t suck for feel. Everything else is actually awesome.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

honestly who gives a rats ass what this guy thinks. either your like YOUR car or you don't

[Keca10]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

honestly who gives a rats ass what this guy thinks. either your like YOUR care or you don't

Yep. It’s always fashionable to hate on the current M3. Then miss it when the next one comes out. People haven’t even seen the 4 door G-series and folks are already outraged by the fugly grille.

And each generation has the last of something that people are gonna miss.
Which is a good thing. If you want the old car they are used and on sale at a discount!

F80 M3 was the best car I could find used or new to meet my needs for a
fun (6sp, fast, rwd),
nice (modern iDrive, nice interior)
and practical car (4 doors, can handle two kid seats).
And it looks amazing too.

Only other serious contender I looked into was a 2019 GT350. But it had really difficult access to the rear seats for the kiddos. And crappy plastic quality feel. And dealers sucked - still wanted MSRP while F80 and CS were given away.

If it gets boring there is bm3.
QV is only in automatic. In which case there are many other cars to choose from. And while steering feel might be slightly better in the QV, the brakes are terrible.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by minn19

I wonder how much lighter the static suspension is and non leather seats are than. I have a very hard time seeing how my base (no options/steel brakes) M4 CS came in at 3630 with between 1/2 and 3/4 of a tank of gas while yours is that. My 6MT ZCP was 3680 with extended leather, MPE and exec package and again roughly 1/2 to 3/4s a tank of gas. I really don't see how it could be that far off from your car.

The base CSs should be the lightest M3s subtracting DCT weight of course. But, this isn't the case and not even close from what I can tell.

I don't get it either; genuinely. And I'm not claiming the scale I used was 100% accurate....but I'm saying it's a commercial scale, used for millions of dollars of commerce annually, and it's damn sure calibrated within a tiny margin of error.

I could see my car weighing 3,500 with 8-9 more gallons of gas in it - so practically a full tank. Why does my car weigh 100 pounds less than yours even if it has a full tank of gas? That IDK. Magnesium oil pan baby!

[jfritz27]

Joe,

Interestingly, I seem to also remember some old threads where fuel efficiency was being discussed, and I seem to recall you were getting highway numbers significantly above many others -- maybe there's just something special about yours

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by jfritz27

Joe,

Interestingly, I seem to also remember some old threads where fuel efficiency was being discussed, and I seem to recall you were getting highway numbers significantly above many others -- maybe there's just something special about yours

It's funny you mention that.

So I do ALOT of highway driving - I'm talking routinely 65 miles one way, 100 miles one way, etc.

From say 1000 miles to 40,000 miles on the car I would see the MPG (computer calculated) do 28-30 easy, 30-32mpg with a little bit of effort, and even 32-35mpg with a serious deliberate effort.

That doesn't happen anymore. My vehicle is bone stock and has never been touched besides maintenance and a preventative clutch replacement under warranty at 49,500 miles (original clutch was perfect!).

At nearly 70k miles now, my mileage performance is fairly consistent with others. On a long highway drive I'll get 27-28mpg readings tops.

...

Only thing I can guess is that I may be coming up for a tune-up and I may be accumulating some carbon build-up. Still performs perfectly and literally has been a flawless car in nearly 5.5 years and nearly 70k miles.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by erictrainer

I think this review needs some context which is what most people may have not realized when viewing this. Dude owns and drives an Ariel Atom, while he dailys a now defunct beater Honda Civic... let that settle in. He also has extensively tracked and owned S2000s ( I believe he has now sold... although I'm not sure). The point is the guy is a real car guy, with well above average driving skills and also some real mechanical knowledge. His opinion is a qualified one, nonetheless someone's take on a car, albeit a very qualified one. But if you understand where he's coming from, you can read through his comments. Many F8X owners have never tracked their cars, and never will and that's a reality. BMW has to build a car with many compromises, it's not just about driving 10/10s all the time. Many people will never even drive at that level anyway. He even says it as an almost sad realization that that is the reality all car manufacturers face.

When he said that he wanted a more "weekend car" that resonated with me a lot. Personally, I constantly ponder over selling my F80 and buying some sort of crazy weekend car and a daily. The truth is, that is a lot more expensive and far less practical. So in the meantime my compromise is the F80, and at that there is no better car IMHO. I still love my F80 and like him, I'm marveled by what a great piece of engineering it is. Yet everyday, at the end of the day I wish I was driving a no compromise weekend car. To me that is the gist of his review.

When he reviews a more purpose built sports car he often complains it's to expensive and not practical on the streets, the reality is that it's only good if you have access to a track. He's just super jaded. Nothing is really exciting with as much experience as he has and an Atom in his garage.

[matty088]

F80 is fun on a track but too much for the road. If you air out a couple gears you are flying. I also have a e46 that thing is perfect for the road. Not too fast at all. Can easily rip it hard on any road and be fine. It’s a fun car.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by matty088

F80 is fun on a track but too much for the road. If you air out a couple gears you are flying. I also have a e46 that thing is perfect for the road. Not too fast at all. Can easily rip it hard on any road and be fine. It's a fun car.

Lol @ too much for the road. That could apply to any car over 200 HP. People used to say the E46 was too much as well. Too much power. Too stiff for daily driving. Blah, blah!

[NSX2M4]

I stopped watching after he bounced the rev limiter for several seconds. I wouldn’t let them borrow my car.

[behindthen0thing]

I thought it was a good review. I see the subtlety to his viewpoints and they make sense to me.

[clutchdj]

Originally Posted by akkando

When he reviews a more purpose built sports car he often complains it's to expensive and not practical on the streets, the reality is that it's only good if you have access to a track. He's just super jaded. Nothing is really exciting with as much experience as he has and an Atom in his garage.

Now this is true. He whines in his video reviews and has not owned any late model ///M car after 2013. Wash up.

[Junkball]

Originally Posted by Serious

"Alfa QV is a better car"

i'm convinced 80% of the people confidently saying this are doing so based on nothing more than youtube reviews and motor trend/C&D articles.

It's not that hard to get a ride in a Giulia for the feel of the vehicle. Turo is easy, and while it may not have the Ferrari-derived motor, you'll get the gist of the experience.

Also, what is wrong with parroting what you read on the internet? It's all true...

[matty088]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Lol @ too much for the road. That could apply to any car over 200 HP. People used to say the E46 was too much as well. Too much power. Too stiff for daily driving. Blah, blah!

Going wot on country roads gets you to dangerous mph very quickly in a f80. Going wot in a e46 not so much. Very different

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by matty088

Going wot on country roads gets you to dangerous mph very quickly in a f80. Going wot in a e46 not so much. Very different

So what you're telling me is that a 4.5-ish second 0-60 and a 12.8-13.1 1/4 mile @ 110-ish mph time isn't "getting you to a dangerous MPH very quickly"? The E46 M3 may feel under-powered compared to the F8X due to the lack of low end torque and the 100 HP deficit, but in its day, it was extremely fast. It will still get you into trouble very quickly.

[tropicalypso]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

So what you're telling me that a 4.5-ish second 0-60 and a 12.8-13.1 1/4 mile @ 110-ish mph time isn't "getting you to a dangerous MPH very quickly"? The E46 M3 may feel under-powered compared to the F8X due to the lack of low end torque, but in its day, it was extremely fast. It will still get you into trouble very quickly.

The E46 is a very fast car, but the F80 hits 100 in under 9 seconds, stock.

0 to “you’re going to jail” happens so damn quick, it makes spirited street driving a a risky venture.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by akkando

When he reviews a more purpose built sports car he often complains it's to expensive and not practical on the streets, the reality is that it's only good if you have access to a track. He's just super jaded. Nothing is really exciting with as much experience as he has and an Atom in his garage.

It gets a lot of clicks when you rag on m3.

Owners know it’s a top choice for a “do it all” 4 dr