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      05-23-2019, 02:23 AM   #67
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Since we're all CEOs here, here's my 2 cents:

BMW is falling behind on electric production, The i Division hasn't released anything new or even shown a legit concept since the i3 and i8. It would be nice to see them come out with something like the polestar from Volvo.

Since test driving a model S a car like the 540i feels like an obsolete mode of transport, the cars are not even close when it come to technology.

As far as driving engagement I actually think bmw is doing good, b58 is winning awards, the M2 is holding the torch the M3 once held and the X3M40i is a great package


Running an auto company is tough but I'm sure they'll work through it with this guy or someone else.
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      05-23-2019, 05:55 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powaup View Post
Since we're all CEOs here, here's my 2 cents:

BMW is falling behind on electric production, The i Division hasn't released anything new or even shown a legit concept since the i3 and i8. It would be nice to see them come out with something like the polestar from Volvo.

Since test driving a model S a car like the 540i feels like an obsolete mode of transport, the cars are not even close when it come to technology.

As far as driving engagement I actually think bmw is doing good, b58 is winning awards, the M2 is holding the torch the M3 once held and the X3M40i is a great package


Running an auto company is tough but I'm sure they'll work through it with this guy or someone else.
Agree that BMW needs to be All-In with electric cars at this point while still maintains exciting ICE cars until the transition fully ramps up.

As far as autonomous driving - that to me is still early days and an impossibility until such time as AI makes huge exponential leaps - BMW should stay
close but not bet the farm at this point - let others over spend and under deliver and then jump in when AI is truly ready. AI will enable driverless cars not car companies and AI is still decades away from true "intelligence".
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      05-23-2019, 06:09 AM   #69
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Get rid of efficient dynamicshit and bring back the sheer driving pleasure.
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      05-23-2019, 09:32 AM   #70
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Agreed 100%...LOL at E90 interior inferior to F30...I owned both
I must agree as well the f30 interior was not as good as the e90's. In fact i disliked the interior so much that i decided not to get the f80 cuz i just hate the center console and dash that much so instead i went with an f06 for its beautiful style in and out.
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      05-23-2019, 10:07 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Get rid of efficient dynamicshit and bring back the sheer driving pleasure.
Then not be able to sell cars because they don't meet emissions standards anywhere except Saudi Arabia.
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      05-23-2019, 10:32 AM   #72
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Then not be able to sell cars because they don't meet emissions standards anywhere except Saudi Arabia.
Don't get me wrong. They can keep it efficient all day long, but that should not be their primary focus; driving pleasure should always be. It's BMW's heritage.

I drive my Z3 1.9 once in a while and compare the ride with cars of the its era (996, 986) and it provides the best steering feel despite its small engine. Given, it has the least lock-to-lock steering ratio (2.7) of all time.

Nowadays you need to buy some crazy shit M CSL GTS models to have half of what they used to offer at base trim level in the 90s.
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      05-23-2019, 10:55 AM   #73
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If I have learned anything over the years it's that revisionist history rules when it comes to car forums of all makes and types. Everyone complains how the old cars were lighter, sharper, purer, better, than today's cars. The reality is that outside of a hand full of classics, most weren't so pretty well every brand has a group of purists that are upset about the current direction of the company they used to love. This isn't a BMW thing, it's a just the reality of current times where technology is rapidly evolving.

All of that said I agree with some of the comments in that there's probably too many M variants and BMW would be wise to scale that back a little. Also while the ZF8 is a really nice transmission I'm not a fan of that being offered in the M2, M3, M4 if the rumours are true (C&D recently said next gen M3/M4 would come with DCT) as that screams of cost cutting and I just don't consider the ZF8 a sports car transmission. That said I'm not going to get too down on them for the use of 4 cylinder engines or FWD in entry level cars as MB and Audi got a head start here and BMW can either catch up to claim a piece of that pie or concede sales to their rivals which is a sure fire way to upset shareholders and get people fired. I accept cars aren't going to get lighter and electric steering is never going to provide the feel of hydraulic so I'm not going to spend a lot of my time lamenting the past as life is too short to continually look back and I'm focusing on enjoying the present and today's cars still do a lot of things better than older cars and there will be a day where some younger posters here will in 2030 be complaining; "These new electric cars suck and I miss the analog feel of my old F80 M3." as it's the cycle of life.
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      05-23-2019, 10:58 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
If I have learned anything over the years it's that revisionist history rules when it comes to car forums of all makes and types. Everyone complains how the old cars were lighter, sharper, purer, better, than today's cars. The reality is that outside of a hand full of classics, most weren't so pretty well every brand has a group of purists that are upset about the current direction of the company they used to love. This isn't a BMW thing, it's a just the reality of current times where technology is rapidly evolving.

All of that said I agree with some of the comments in that there's probably too many M variants and BMW would be wise to scale that back a little. Also while the ZF8 is a really nice transmission I'm not a fan of that being offered in the M2, M3, M4 if the rumours are true (C&D recently said next gen M3/M4 would come with DCT) as that screams of cost cutting and I just don't consider the ZF8 a sports car transmission. That said I'm not going to get too down on them for the use of 4 cylinder engines or FWD in entry level cars as MB and Audi got a head start here and BMW can either catch up to claim a piece of that pie or concede sales to their rivals which is a sure fire way to upset shareholders and get people fired. I accept cars aren't going to get lighter and electric steering is never going to provide the feel of hydraulic so I'm not going to spend a lot of my time lamenting the past as life is too short to continually look back and I'm focusing on enjoying the present and today's cars still do a lot of things better than older cars and there will be a day where some younger posters here will in 2030 be complaining; "These new electric cars suck and I miss the analog feel of my F80 M3" as it's the cycle of life.
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      05-23-2019, 11:03 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
If I have learned anything over the years it's that revisionist history rules when it comes to car forums of all makes and types. Everyone complains how the old cars were lighter, sharper, purer, better, than today's cars. The reality is that outside of a hand full of classics, most weren't so pretty well every brand has a group of purists that are upset about the current direction of the company they used to love. This isn't a BMW thing, it's a just the reality of current times where technology is rapidly evolving.

All of that said I agree with some of the comments in that there's probably too many M variants and BMW would be wise to scale that back a little. Also while the ZF8 is a really nice transmission I'm not a fan of that being offered in the M2, M3, M4 if the rumours are true (C&D recently said next gen M3/M4 would come with DCT) as that screams of cost cutting and I just don't consider the ZF8 a sports car transmission. That said I'm not going to get too down on them for the use of 4 cylinder engines or FWD in entry level cars as MB and Audi got a head start here and BMW can either catch up to claim a piece of that pie or concede sales to their rivals which is a sure fire way to upset shareholders and get people fired. I accept cars aren't going to get lighter and electric steering is never going to provide the feel of hydraulic so I'm not going to spend a lot of my time lamenting the past as life is too short to continually look back and I'm focusing on enjoying the present and today's cars still do a lot of things better than older cars and there will be a day where some younger posters here will in 2030 be complaining; "These new electric cars suck and I miss the analog feel of my old F80 M3." as it's the cycle of life.
Don't get me wrong, I was quite excited when F8x first came out as the car was a more complete package (and return to the inline 6.) You will be surprised to know that the people who made E30 up to F8x M3 are now all gone.

With the recent test drive of an F90 M5, I am not convinced they will keep making M cars that offer driving pleasure. It's more like a pleasure of a driven nowadays; leave everything auto, get a massage, and go fast.
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      05-23-2019, 11:12 AM   #76
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Quote:
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3- Cheap plastic interiors since F series launched? Really? The reality is the exact opposite of you’re saying. E60 interior sucked. E90 interior sucked. E70 interior sucked. F got a little better, (Except for F30 IMO), and currently all BMW models are way better than pre-F series era in terms of plastic quality.
I've owned BMWs from the early 90s (E30) to current (i3), and the interior qualities were by far the best during the early to mid 2000s.

We had an E60 545i and the leather, soft touch plastic, and all other material in the car were light years better than any other BMW we've ever owned. Since the induction of the E9x the interior material has gone on a steady downward trend.

I'm not talking about design, as the E60 interior would look dated today, with the first ten iDrive. But it's a crying shame that my CHEVY has better dash material than the best BMW has to offer.

On the E60 545i, all the touchable material inside the car just screams "I'm expensive." The E46, the E60, and the E65 all had incredible quality touch materials that none of the subsequent generations can compare to.

Again, the design and features may be more modern, with updated touch screens and more ergonomic functionality in today's BMWs. The i3 for example has a lot of cool features that doesn't exist on the E60. And it has some neat materials (like the composite dash, that's kinda cool). But nothing screams luxury like the supple leather of the E60 and the incredible soft touch plastic that the dash is made from, or even the hard plastic...The older BMWs just seem to have an extra layer of whatever it is they put on the plastic to make it FEEL better.

The only exception here is the Z4. The E89 Z4 has much better interior "touch" components than the E85 Z4. Subsequent generation (G29) also has better interior touch materials. It's almost like the first gen Z4 got the start of the deterioration of the touch plastics kicked off, and for some reason, they decided to make it better rather than worse unlike other BMWs.
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      05-23-2019, 11:47 AM   #77
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It's not his job to make nice and attractive cars, his job is to maximize profit.

Sales are up, so nothing wrong with the cars.

Still, profit slumped, well that's his fault!
I don't like him, he completely lacks charisma, it's somehow unpleasant even to watch him speaking.

So yes, I would like to see him gone.

And try bringing somebody who is not German to the helm. BMW leadership should be more international.
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      05-23-2019, 11:51 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
I've owned BMWs from the early 90s (E30) to current (i3), and the interior qualities were by far the best during the early to mid 2000s.

We had an E60 545i and the leather, soft touch plastic, and all other material in the car were light years better than any other BMW we've ever owned. Since the induction of the E9x the interior material has gone on a steady downward trend.

I'm not talking about design, as the E60 interior would look dated today, with the first ten iDrive. But it's a crying shame that my CHEVY has better dash material than the best BMW has to offer.

On the E60 545i, all the touchable material inside the car just screams "I'm expensive." The E46, the E60, and the E65 all had incredible quality touch materials that none of the subsequent generations can compare to.

Again, the design and features may be more modern, with updated touch screens and more ergonomic functionality in today's BMWs. The i3 for example has a lot of cool features that doesn't exist on the E60. And it has some neat materials (like the composite dash, that's kinda cool). But nothing screams luxury like the supple leather of the E60 and the incredible soft touch plastic that the dash is made from, or even the hard plastic...The older BMWs just seem to have an extra layer of whatever it is they put on the plastic to make it FEEL better.

The only exception here is the Z4. The E89 Z4 has much better interior "touch" components than the E85 Z4. Subsequent generation (G29) also has better interior touch materials. It's almost like the first gen Z4 got the start of the deterioration of the touch plastics kicked off, and for some reason, they decided to make it better rather than worse unlike other BMWs.
Are you sure you talking about a E60? The E60 together with the E65 had the worst interior ever. The soft plastic war peeling within couple years. My 2001 E38 with 263K miles is in a better shape interior wise than any used E60 with less than 100K miles.

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      05-23-2019, 11:56 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
Are you sure you talking about a E60? The E60 together with the E65 had the worst interior ever. The soft plastic war peeling within couple years. My 2001 E38 with 263K miles is in a better shape interior wise than any used E60 with less than 100K miles.
The "peeling" plastic when new was amazing. They put a soft coat of SOMETHING on them for sure, none of the interior plastics felt like plastic when new.

I had my E46 for over 6 years, and the bottom of the door handle suffer the same fate. The top layer started to peel off at around 100,000 miles, and you can roll pieces of it off with your fingers.

Yeah, it didn't wear as well as I'd hoped. But they sure put something extra on those plastic parts to make them feel far more luxurious than newer cars for sure.

You're probably just used to them after some aging process. I'm pretty sure the F/G generation plastic won't hold up to the ravages of time either, but man...Even when new the newer BMW's plastic doesn't hold a candle to the mid 2000's plastic.

When new.
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      05-23-2019, 12:00 PM   #80
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It’s most likely about the electric section or lack there of. BMW is falling behind.
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      05-23-2019, 12:25 PM   #81
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The i3 is the only car BMW currently makes that I like (which is why I bought one). It, strangely, has old school BMW vales in many ways-- functional 4 seater in a <2800 lb car, rwd, instant throttle response (no turbos), quick enough to be fun without being so fast that you can't actually push it, 50:50 weight distro, super stiff chassis, and a super low COG.

Last edited by Obioban; 05-23-2019 at 01:11 PM..
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      05-23-2019, 01:06 PM   #82
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I remember the lettering on my engine start button on my E92 rubbing right off when I went to see why it was looking like it was starting to fade.
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      05-23-2019, 07:16 PM   #83
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BMW will have a very bad time due to a series of bad decisions made by its executives about late investments on electric models and new technologies. Look at the Q1 financial result, minus EUR 559 million free cash flow and 310 million euros loss before interest and taxes at the automotive division. This is just the beginning.

BMW is sticking with the inaccurate Here map, they lack whole system OTA update, have useless driving assistance, etc. They should really get rid of subpar software and suppliers like AutoSAR, Here, etc.
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      05-24-2019, 04:39 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
They can hire a Porsche guy for steering feedback, pretty sure the average BMW customer will not want Porsche ride, and manual is a "specific" Porsche thing, everyone else is dropping it.

the last few BMW offered with manual ddidn't have a high take up rate. I suppose if BMW go hardcore and make a GT3 equivalents AND out perform Porsche while under price Porsche it will sell, though in the end of day will never be enough number to really matter for BMW
actually a base 911 rides way smoother and compliant than modern BMW. You need to drive them.
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      05-24-2019, 06:26 PM   #85
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you mean M3 vs. average 911 or say 530 vs 911...?
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      05-24-2019, 09:02 PM   #86
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Look at how bad BMW is lagging in the electric car segment.

https://public.flourish.studio/visua...Iz9G5pV1AlKZTs
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      05-25-2019, 01:41 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powaup View Post
Look at how bad BMW is lagging in the electric car segment.

https://public.flourish.studio/visua...Iz9G5pV1AlKZTs
BMW told others what's the wrong way to build electric vehicles.
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      05-25-2019, 07:31 AM   #88
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Quote:
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This is all false.
but I think the poor design era was E90 era, now it’s better but BMW design needs to be more distinctive.
BMW had boatloads of distinction during the Bangle era, and everyone complained. Now we have different lengths of the same sausage, and everyone is complaining. The BMW crowd is a fickle bunch.
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