Oil change - Engine oil brand?

[aswy6]

Hey guys,

Sorry to bring back this thread but, i am buying F80 M3 this Saturday and dealer put Mobil 1 0W-30 oil in there when they got the car. Should i worry about it and change it right away or wait 5k miles? I just feel little bit sketchy because Mobil 1 0w-30 is some kind of gas mileage BS rather than high performance oil that Shell is for example. Thoughts?

Thank you

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by aswy6

Hey guys,

Sorry to bring back this thread but, i am buying F80 M3 this Saturday and dealer put Mobil 1 0W-30 oil in there when they got the car. Should i worry about it and change it right away or wait 5k miles? I just feel little bit sketchy because Mobil 1 0w-30 is some kind of gas mileage BS rather than high performance oil that Shell is for example. Thoughts?

Thank you

I assume this was not a BMW dealer? While it is probably fine, I would change it to something meeting the BMW spec since M1 does not.

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

I assume this was not a BMW dealer? While it is probably fine, I would change it to something meeting the BMW spec since M1 does not.

No its not a BMW dealer. I do oil changes every 5k miles but thats the exact reason why i feel little bit sketchy about M1. Do you think i will be fine for 5k miles or just go ahead and ask them to change it?

[G4BR13L]

Don’t underestimate the importance of the most important fluid of your car. Like mentioned the M1 is not approved by BMW and I have heard stories about warranty voided because of ‘wrong’ oil used. Stick to BMW LL-04 approved oil in Europe and to BMW LL-01 approved oil elsewhere. Also try to stick to the same oil. If you want to be 100% safe ask your BMW dealer which oil they use and buy the same. Do NOT try to save money on oil replacements by going to a ’cheaper’ dealer.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by aswy6

No its not a BMW dealer. I do oil changes every 5k miles but thats the exact reason why i feel little bit sketchy about M1. Do you think i will be fine for 5k miles or just go ahead and ask them to change it?

Well, my answer is both lol. Yes I do think you will be safe to leave it in for 5k miles. But, if it were my car I would change it out immediately for the proper oil.

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Well, my answer is both lol. Yes I do think you will be safe to leave it in for 5k miles. But, if it were my car I would change it out immediately for the proper oil.

I think i will just drive it hole for 700 miles and change it. Would that be a good option lol?

[SE7EN335]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Got it, you are an avid M1 user with a long history of good experiences.

I wasnt necessarily preaching the necessity of using an LL-01 oil, I was just stating that imo, there is no reason not to given the low cost and widespread availability. I am sure MB, VW, Porsche, etc have similar drain interval requirements as BMW so dont let the "long life" nomenclature fool you. Its more than just about drain interval and has specific technical properties such as minimum hths requirements.

By your reasoning, any oil that is LL-01 certified must be better for the F8x than other oils that are not LL-01 certified.

Take for example: Castrol Edge Titanium 5w40 carries BMW LL-01 certification, MB 229.3 Certification and a Porsche A40 Certification but DOES not carry MB 229.5 Certification.

Redline 5w40 does not carry any BMW LL-01 certification or MB certification or Porsche A40 Certification and is marketed as suitable for those approvals. But its specific technical properties (viscosity index, HTHS of 4.0, viscosity at different temperatures) FAR trumps over the inferior properties of the Castrol Edge 5w40 as well as being a Group V oil over Castrol Edge 5w40 inferior Group III hydrocracked base stock oil.


My N54 335i when I bought it with 80k kms had about five documented 15K kms oil changes at the dealership from previous owner using that exact Castrol Edge 5w40, when I took the valve cover off to change the leaking valve cover gasket at 83k kms, I saw how the engine was quite sludged and gummed up. So I did Redline 5w40 changes every 5k kms till I had a leaky valve cover at 122k kms in which I removed the valve cover again and behold, the engine was spotlessly cleaned and had that beautiful caramel colour. I can guarantee that if I did Castrol Edge 5w40 oil changes every 5k kms, it would not be this clean and spotless as servicing with redline 5w40 because Redline 5w40 is a much superior oil to Castrol Edge 5w40 in every sense of the word, technical properties, measurable value, cleaning properties and base stock, even though it does not carry ANY certifications that Castrol has.


If it makes you sleep better at night knowing that you have BMW certification from Castrol 0w40, then sure you do you.

PS: in regards to warranty issues, my dealer is happy with me doing oil changes using Redline 0w40 in between the free scheduled services in my corporate plan, even though Redline 0w40 does not carry any BMW certification because they all know that Redline 0w40 is superior to the M TwinPower 0w40 they stock.

[G4BR13L]

Yes your dealer is but if you run into mechanical issues and your dealer has to take this up with BMW they will send an ‘expert’ and they will give you and your dealer a very hard time because BMW, just like any other car manufacturers by the way, will try to blame it on the ‘wrong’ oil. For all I care about you can choose whatever oil you want but I think it is wrong to give advice on the forum that it is okay to use oil that is not LL-01 or LL-04 approved no matter how good you think other oil is.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by SE7EN335

By your reasoning, any oil that is LL-01 certified must be better for the F8x than other oils that are not LL-01 certified.

Take for example: Castrol Edge Titanium 5w40 carries BMW LL-01 certification, MB 229.3 Certification and a Porsche A40 Certification but DOES not carry MB 229.5 Certification.

Redline 5w40 does not carry any BMW LL-01 certification or MB certification or Porsche A40 Certification and is marketed as suitable for those approvals. But its specific technical properties (viscosity index, HTHS of 4.0, viscosity at different temperatures) FAR trumps over the inferior properties of the Castrol Edge 5w40 as well as being a Group V oil over Castrol Edge 5w40 inferior Group III hydrocracked base stock oil.


My N54 335i when I bought it with 80k kms had about five documented 15K kms oil changes at the dealership from previous owner using that exact Castrol Edge 5w40, when I took the valve cover off to change the leaking valve cover gasket at 83k kms, I saw how the engine was quite sludged and gummed up. So I did Redline 5w40 changes every 5k kms till I had a leaky valve cover at 122k kms in which I removed the valve cover again and behold, the engine was spotlessly cleaned and had that beautiful caramel colour. I can guarantee that if I did Castrol Edge 5w40 oil changes every 5k kms, it would not be this clean and spotless as servicing with redline 5w40 because Redline 5w40 is a much superior oil to Castrol Edge 5w40 in every sense of the word, technical properties, measurable value, cleaning properties and base stock, even though it does not carry ANY certifications that Castrol has.


If it makes you sleep better at night knowing that you have BMW certification from Castrol 0w40, then sure you do you.

PS: in regards to warranty issues, my dealer is happy with me doing oil changes using Redline 0w40 in between the free scheduled services in my corporate plan, even though Redline 0w40 does not carry any BMW certification because they all know that Redline 0w40 is superior to the M TwinPower 0w40 they stock.

By my reasoning, all I am saying is that BMW provided certain guidelines an oil must meet which will ensure it functions correctly in an engine. Thus, any oil meeting those guidelines (i.e. OE spec approval) will work as intended.

From what I have read about red line oils, they are generally regarded as overpriced boutique oils which dont protect any better than less expensive products like M1, castrol, etc. Your anecdotal evidence is contrary to what I have read. Also I was specifically speaking about castrol 0w40, not the 5w40 which is a different product, but nonetheless my point stands.

Obviously you are a fan of red line oils. Thats great. I know they have kind of a cult following with some passionate fans. But to suggest that using a properly approved BMW spec oil is somehow inferior or will not protect your engine adequately is just wrong.

[G4BR13L]

To be honest if you are changing oils in between services it does not really matter which oil you use for normal driving modes, not talking about track driving. The difference in wear rate is so small between oils that it starts to make a difference when you replace the oil every 30000 km (~18000 miles) but not when changing it every 15.000 km (~9000 miles) or smaller intervals. Imho you can use with small intervals the cheapest oil you can find as long as it is 0W30, 5W30 or 0W40 and I strongly recommend to stick with LL-01 or LL-04 approved. Look in the manual of your F8x because which oil to use is region dependant because gas is not everywhere of the same quality.

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by G4BR13L

Don’t underestimate the importance of the most important fluid of your car. Like mentioned the M1 is not approved by BMW and I have heard stories about warranty voided because of ‘wrong’ oil used. Stick to BMW LL-04 approved oil in Europe and to BMW LL-01 approved oil elsewhere. Also try to stick to the same oil. If you want to be 100% safe ask your BMW dealer which oil they use and buy the same. Do NOT try to save money on oil replacements by going to a ’cheaper’ dealer.

Asked the Honda dealer where this car is at to change oil with Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w-30 the one that is made from gas or something. It is LL-01. For some reason shell website says that recommended oil is Pennzoil 5w-40 though while 5w-30 is standard. I guess i will put 5w-40 next time when summer comes. Thoughts?

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by G4BR13L

Yes your dealer is but if you run into mechanical issues and your dealer has to take this up with BMW they will send an ‘expert’ and they will give you and your dealer a very hard time because BMW, just like any other car manufacturers by the way, will try to blame it on the ‘wrong’ oil. For all I care about you can choose whatever oil you want but I think it is wrong to give advice on the forum that it is okay to use oil that is not LL-01 or LL-04 approved no matter how good you think other oil is.

Or would you say just order 5w-40 from Pennzoil. Thats what Shell website recommends

[aswy6]

At this point i might be overthinking it but Pennzoil recommends Platinum Euro for M3 which is LL-01 certified while what they claim to be their absolutely best oil is Ultra Premium (notice no Euro) and that oil is not LL-01 certified. So which one to get lol?

[Fast4d]

sludge could be the result of a non functional crank case evac system and short trips. it isn't necessarily due to a 'lesser' oil.

some BMW engines are known to have clogged CCR/water seperators issues (X5 4.4 is one I know of)

since 2002 I've used shell rotella 5w-40 in several BMW V8 engines. never an issue with engines at 170k and 120k when traded in.

to the OP: you are highly unlikely to experience an oil related problem so you really don't need to change the oil right this minute.

[G4BR13L]

Example:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pennzoil-...5-qt/179202222

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by G4BR13L

Example:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pennzoil-...5-qt/179202222

It is EURO L version. I called pennzoil but they could not explain what it means

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by aswy6

It is EURO L version. I called pennzoil but they could not explain what it means

It does not meet the US bmw spec. As far as I know, Pennzoil does not sell an oil here that meets bmw spec other than of course the bmw branded oil from the dealer.

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

It does not meet the US bmw spec. As far as I know, Pennzoil does not sell an oil here that meets bmw spec other than of course the bmw branded oil from the dealer.

They sell 5w-40 that meets it though. Its just weird that their best of the best Ultra Platinum does not meet the spec while Platinum does. As of right now, i am picking up the car this Saturday, driving it home with Mobil 1 0w-30 ESP stuff and changing it to Castrol 5w-30 on Tuesday. Hopefully it will not do much harm to the engine

[G4BR13L]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

It does not meet the US bmw spec. As far as I know, Pennzoil does not sell an oil here that meets bmw spec other than of course the bmw branded oil from the dealer.

It is BMW LL-04 approved but yes it should not be used outside Europe because apparently the quality of petrol in for example the USA WAS not as good (high sulphur that degrades the oil). Quality of petrol in the USA is improved to the same levels as Europe maybe not everywhere.

To be on the safe side you should stick with BMW LL-01 approved or use Mobil 1 0w-40, Pennzoil Platinum Euro SAE 5W-40, 8100 X-CESS 5W-40, ... but look at the viscosity in your manual!! There are differences between the years.

You are overthinking it imho. Just do regular oil changes and research where you are getting petrol to figure it if they use petrol that is low on sulfur. Just use oil with the correct viscosity: look it up in YOUR manual and use BLW LL-01 approved and then it does not matter what oil you use.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by aswy6

They sell 5w-40 that meets it though. Its just weird that their best of the best Ultra Platinum does not meet the spec while Platinum does. As of right now, i am picking up the car this Saturday, driving it home with Mobil 1 0w-30 ESP stuff and changing it to Castrol 5w-30 on Tuesday. Hopefully it will not do much harm to the engine

You're right they do make that 5w40 that meets LL-01. I think it is hard to find in a store though, perhaps online may be easier.

Does castrol make a 5w30 that meets BMW spec? I dont believe they do anymore but I could be wrong.

Is having the BMW LL-01/LL-01FE certification important to you? If so then I would just keep it simple and run over to your local walmart where you can find 5qt jugs of an LL-01 oil for less than $30.

[aswy6]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

You're right they do make that 5w40 that meets LL-01. I think it is hard to find in a store though, perhaps online may be easier.

Does castrol make a 5w30 that meets BMW spec? I dont believe they do anymore but I could be wrong.

Is having the BMW LL-01/LL-01FE certification important to you? If so then I would just keep it simple and run over to your local walmart where you can find 5qt jugs of an LL-01 oil for less than $30.

I am looking at Amazon Castrol Edge 5W-30 and it says BMW Longlife-01. I guess i will use that for my oil change when i get home and then possibly look into Pennzoil 5w-40 which is preferred for S55 engine according to Pennzoil website. My whole thing is that i feel like 0w-30 is way to thin for high performance engine while 5w-40 seems a bit too heavy for normal use. Different story for track of course. Pennzoil Gas oil technology just seems very attractive

[G4BR13L]

My manual (Belgian - Western Europe) says to use oil with the following viscosity: 0W-30 and that 5W-30, 0W-40, 5W-40 can also be used. It says to use oil with the specs: BMW LL-01, LL-01 FE, LL-04, LL-12 FE.
Look in your manual which you can even consult on your smartphone with the BMW Driver Guide app, install it and enter the VIN and you have the complete manual.