Thoughts on the G20 3 Series?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

I think it will be that - heavy (wait it’s still heavy now) and more GT focused, however, I am not sure they do the GT thing quite as well as AMG and RS do it.

It’s 35xx lb for f80 without driver. That’s acceptable to me for a 5 seats sedan of its size.

I’m glad it’s not all GT and that it’s more track ready out of box than the others

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

It’s 35xx lb for f80 without driver. That’s acceptable to me for a 5 seats sedan of its size.

I’m glad it’s not all GT and that it’s more track ready out of box than the others

M3 dct comp pack tested by car and driver was 3651. Not at all light by any stretch of the imagination. My M3 was a manual, CF roof and 19s and was more than 3500 lbs and my M4 with manual, CF roof and 19s was not much lighter.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...e-test-review/

And here is a Dct M4 at 3615. Both of those had CF roof too so you can add another 50 if someone did happen to add sunroof.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...c-test-review/


Add AWD alone and you’re probably looking at an m3 that is ~3900 lbs. Add the new safety requirement, particulate filters, larger footprint (g20 is 2.5 inches longer alone) more equipment and tech and I think the car is going to be around 4000 lbs.

I think the C63S coupe is plenty track ready out of the box and the Alfa Quad is too in this segment. Ideally though, there are better cars for track duty though.

[2011zx10R]

Originally Posted by z335is

I went to the dealer yesterday to pick up my CS (sorry for the humblebrag) and as I was sitting with the salesman, he points and says "how do you like the new 3 series?" Admittedly, in pictures it didn't wow me, but seemed fine enough. In person though, it just seemed like a mishmash of incongruent parts and odd angles (interior seemed ok though).

I thought the last three generations were all incremental improvements, but man I'm worried about this one. I'm hopeful that the G8x M3 will refine some of the looks, but I'm just curious of others thoughts on this as it stands right now.

I like the interior and the frontend but I'd never buy a traditional 3 series. Although I'm sure it's a great car.

That said I'm not a BMW fanatic. I only like the M3. For Porsche it's the 911 Gt3.
Lexus ES 350 sport, daily driver GTI.

I think each manufacturer has a specialty.

I'm not sure who has the best SUV; Volvo has been winning a lot of awards

[Rewted]

I am excited about AWD M4 and the digital dash. Interior has some welcome improvements but outer aesthetics are meh.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

M3 dct comp pack tested by car and driver was 3651. Not at all light by any stretch of the imagination. My M3 was a manual, CF roof and 19s and was more than 3500 lbs and my M4 with manual, CF roof and 19s was not much lighter.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...e-test-review/

And here is a Dct M4 at 3615. Both of those had CF roof too so you can add another 50 if someone did happen to add sunroof.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...c-test-review/


Add AWD alone and you're probably looking at an m3 that is ~3900 lbs. Add the new safety requirement, particulate filters, larger footprint (g20 is 2.5 inches longer alone) more equipment and tech and I think the car is going to be around 4000 lbs.

I think the C63S coupe is plenty track ready out of the box and the Alfa Quad is too in this segment. Ideally though, there are better cars for track duty though.

If the M340i x drive shaved some weight off the prior 340i xdrive and M3s are normally lighter, I don't see how we are getting this 3900lbs+ number. Didn't the press release say it was up to 120lbs laughter than the F30?

Am I missing something?

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

If the M340i x drive shaved some weight off the prior 340i xdrive and M3s are normally lighter, I don't see how we are getting this 3900lbs+ number. Didn't the press release say it was up to 120lbs laughter than the F30?

Am I missing something?

The rumor right now is that the m3 will have the m5s switchable awd only. No rwd model unless you want one without dct or full power.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

The rumor right now is that the m3 will have the m5s switchable awd only. No rwd model unless you want one without dct or full power.

Yeah, I get that rumor is out there. But if the M340i xdrive G20 is lighter than the 340i xdrive F30 already, what makes people think that the new M3 is somehow going to be much heavier than M340i (which is not 3900 lbs plus) when the M3 is usually lighter than the regular 3 series even if AWD? Follow my logic?

So if:
M340(G20) x < 340(F30) x (which by the way is 3695 lbs per bmw specs)
And, historically, M3 < 340
Then by maths, M3 (G80) AWD < M340i which is not 3900 lbs because the F30x was not.

[Tacoma]

Just saw a G20 (330) at a local dealer in Toronto. Interior is cleaner, all the parts seem to fit together better, flow better. Exterior has a more modern look but otherwise meh. The car doesn't stand out in any way, not inspiring. The E46 inspired headlights with the notch is OK. Rear lights remind me of Lexus. Overall, sleep inducing - certainly doesn't make one want to go and buy it. Hoping the G8x is more inspiring or I'll just write off this generation.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

If the M340i x drive shaved some weight off the prior 340i xdrive and M3s are normally lighter, I don't see how we are getting this 3900lbs+ number. Didn't the press release say it was up to 120lbs laughter than the F30?

Am I missing something?

They claim up to 120 lbs lighter but yet provide no context beyond that. They also told us the e92 M3 was lighter yet got 150-200 lbs heavier. The M3 are going to have wider track, more robust suspension, wider tires/wheels, more cooling, likely a more complex AWD so yes I see it being 3900-4000 lbs.
Let’s see what the new 340 x drive weighs, but my guess is it’s going to be heavy.

Here is a 2016 340 x drive which is over 3800 lbs. So if BMW is correct (which I doubt) the new 340 cannot weigh anymore than 3680 lbs.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...e-test-review/

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

They claim up to 120 lbs lighter but yet provide no context beyond that. They also told us the e92 M3 was lighter yet got 150-200 lbs heavier. The M3 are going to have wider track, more robust suspension, wider tires/wheels, more cooling, likely a more complex AWD so yes I see it being 3900-4000 lbs.
Let’s see what the new 340 x drive weighs, but my guess is it’s going to be heavy.

Here is a 2016 340 x drive which is over 3800 lbs. So if BMW is correct (which I doubt) the new 340 cannot weigh anymore than 3680 lbs.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...e-test-review/

Yeah that logic still breaks down because the F80 was lighter than the F30 RWD vs RWD. So if that formula holds, even with those "additions" then it still won't touch that figure. I get it, Porsche good, BMW bad, but I think you guys are making assumptions that don't line up with historical context. So yeah, we will wait and see.

[dlk001]

I drove the 330i and 320i last weekend during a dealer test drive launch. They had white, blue, grey and silver cars. All M-Sport with the same interior trim and 19" optional tires.

Looks: Its a hit and miss for me. The mineral grey looked the best but overall I'm not excited by exterior looks. Its now like the W205 C-Class sedan where some angles are ok but other angles look awkward.

Interior: Big improvements from the F30 that was standing next to it. The seats are higher quality and soft leather. Every panel I pressed had no squeaks, felt solid like the A4 and unlike the W205 C-Class. Huge improvements on the dashboard layout, driver information screen and infotainment. I would avoid the piano black finish on all cars.

Drive: The comfort levels are amazing even on passive dampers with 19" tires it managed to soak up bumps better than my Golf 7 1.4 with 16" normal tires. It never felt unsettled by road undulations. It feels like the F10 5-Series inside in terms of road noise, quiet.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Yeah, I get that rumor is out there. But if the M340i xdrive G20 is lighter than the 340i xdrive F30 already, what makes people think that the new M3 is somehow going to be much heavier than M340i (which is not 3900 lbs plus) when the M3 is usually lighter than the regular 3 series even if AWD? Follow my logic?

So if:
M340(G20) x < 340(F30) x (which by the way is 3695 lbs per bmw specs)
And, historically, M3 < 340
Then by maths, M3 (G80) AWD < M340i which is not 3900 lbs because the F30x was not.

F30 340xi is something like 3850lb. So it’s almost 200lb to add awd.

If you took the f80 weights and add 200lb to that, it’s 3800-3900lb

On public roads, the weight is probably not going to matter

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

Yeah that logic still breaks down because the F80 was lighter than the F30 RWD vs RWD. So if that formula holds, even with those "additions" then it still won't touch that figure. I get it, Porsche good, BMW bad, but I think you guys are making assumptions that don't line up with historical context. So yeah, we will wait and see.

So I read up on this. BMW ‘claims’ the body in white is up to 120 lbs lighter. That doesn’t mean they won’t add more equipment and tech to negate the body savings. Ultimately we’ll have to wait and see but given all the changes going on with particulate filters, safety standards, ZF trans heavier than DCT, etc. I doubt the car will be lighter when tested. Either way, still looks too much like a Kia stinger from the front to me and interior design isn’t great. I’m guessing the M3/4 will look like the X3/4M which just look too busy.

[GlazierGlaze]

Lot of people bitching about weight that have likely never tracked a car in their life. Also, M cars have historically come in leaner than their non-M siblings, plus this car is rumored to be 500+ HP. Everyone in here needs to calm the fuck down.

Keep on keepin' on armchair racers.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by GlazierGlaze

Lot of people bitching about weight that have likely never tracked a car in their life. Also, M cars have historically come in leaner than their non-M siblings, plus this car is rumored to be 500+ HP. Everyone in here needs to calm the fuck down.

Keep on keepin' on armchair racers.

Well the two biggest "complainers" on this thread are actually track rats..... but, yeah, I get your point, we need to reserve judgment until it comes out.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by GlazierGlaze

Lot of people bitching about weight that have likely never tracked a car in their life.

Or they track so much that a 500hp 3900lb street car is not as interesting as a 2400-3000lb competition prepared car with less power

I get where your comment is coming from; some forum members really do have a big bias towards Porsche. In this car I think it’s a legitimate complaint to wish future m3 is not a 3900lb car

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by GlazierGlaze

Lot of people bitching about weight that have likely never tracked a car in their life. Also, M cars have historically come in leaner than their non-M siblings, plus this car is rumored to be 500+ HP. Everyone in here needs to calm the fuck down.

Keep on keepin' on armchair racers.

That's actually a false statement. The F80/2 M3/4 are the first ///M cars to be lighter than their non-M top of the line counterparts.

While ///M cars bear weight reduction elements over the non-M base cars, they have for the most part been more than offset by the added go-fast goodies.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That's actually a false statement. The F80/2 M3/4 are the first ///M cars to be lighter than their non-M top of the line counterparts.

While ///M cars bear weight reduction elements over the non-M base cars, they have for the most part been more than offset by the added go-fast goodies.

Yes very true. To make the car more capable, it tends to add weight...more robust engine, heavier more stout subframe, stronger suspension/components, transmission able to cope with more torque, engine and cooling adding weight.l, larger tires and wheels, etc. Much of the time, these far outweigh the 11 lbs a CF hood saves, or the 3 lbs on a CF trunk or 1 or 2 lbs here or there. The F80 likely won’t get many more CF parts than it has now unless it goes up significantly in price and as I mentioned, DOT and CAFE standards are ever increasing weight all around the industry.

[alfonseexists]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

way too busy. all german manufacturers have lost their class and are pulling out trash and lower tier models. Ill never be seen in one...but devalues the brand.

i think base model 3er and 4er are complete shit...like a honda or mazda is literally the same thing if not better for way cheaper

+1

[GERMAN M3]

Originally Posted by SeatownF80

I can't unsee the taillights looking like the current Lexus IS

My thoughts exactly. I was driving behind a new 3 series tonight and even my 13 yr. old son stated that the rear looked like a Lexus.

[BigSky702]

Originally Posted by JamRWS6

Just saw a Portimao blue M Sport at the dealer and thought the car looked really nice. Would certainly have considered the M340 if it was already out. Went with a leftover F80 instead. No regrets.

Maybe I was wrong about you!

[BigSky702]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

That's straight robbery. 12000 a year to drive a 340i LMAO.

Comparable to Audi S4, C43, ....