F80 M3 comp or Giulia Quad?

[Adcampo]

Thinking of getting a new car. Both would be loaded automatics.

This would be a DD that i would keep at most 3 years.

I've owned a bunch of m cars. Most recently an F82.

[GearRex]

Originally Posted by Adcampo

Thinking of getting a new car. Both would be loaded automatics.

This would be a DD that i would keep at most 3 years.

I've owned a bunch of m cars. Most recently an F82.

Buying? Leasing? Is money a factor? If you are buying, What is your tolerance for depreciation? I know, all cars depreciate, but Alfa’s are in another planet when it comes to depreciation.

The M4 is the sensible choice, however, the Giulia QV is the passionate - money is not a factor - choice.

The QV has the better engine (and a few electronic personality traits *glitches*), and opinions are divided on looks.

Anyway, this has the makings of another debate thread.

[kss]

I spent almost a year set on getting the Guilia Quad and in the end with the deal I got on a new loaded M3 with the Ultimate Package, it was a no brainer to go with the M3. I’m probably in the minority here, but I actually like the look of the Guilia over the M3.

If I was going to get a M3 competition without the Ultimate package (no full leather, no MPE, no heads up display, if both were close in price I think I’d go with the Alfa. But if you are willing to spend the extra on the luxury/convinience/comfort features, I think after spending 4 months in the M3, I love the infotainment system, the HUD, the options to adjust, throttle and exhaust (suspension is not a biggy, because even in my limited 10 min test drive - that’s all I could get from the local Alfa dealer - the Alfa suspension was more comfortable and the bmw sport and sport plus settings are unbearable). The adjustable steering setting is also useless, because the Alfa’s steering is much better, but the Alfa has very touchy brakes in city traffic - which is really the only place I was allowed to drive it. Most have said you get used to it, but there is really limited test drive available on the Quad in Calgary.

Both are great cars, but as much as I love the look, sound and the 500 hp the Alfa has, its technology (infotainment) is way behind BMW (not sure why they just didn’t steal UConnect from Chrysler). The Alfa also doesn’t have HUD - which I’ve had for 10 years, so it would have been hard giving it up.

In Canada you can get better deals on an M3 than an Alfa - that doesn’t sound like it’s the case in the USA.

If I was getting an Alfa, it would have to be a mid 18’ or later build, but I think if I had to chose again, it would only be if I wasn’t getting the executive package and full leather in the M3.

[NickyC]

My heart says Alfa, everything else says M3.

[arrivederci]

I just bought at F30 manual and might've gone quad if available in a manual. Along those lines I have a friend unloading his quad - loaded with carbon ceramics, everything. Barely driven, super clean, super meticulous owner. PM me if you want one that is better than showroom.

[scrufy]

I also looked at the Alfa. I was torn between the Quad, base GT-R, M4, Z60, and maybe going up a few bucks for an AMG GTs. My main thing with the Alfa, and I hate to bring this up because Alfa has bent over backwards to improve their tarnished reputation, is on the long term test mule reviews I read there were still more than “normal” little glitches. One rag reported a fuel system problem that killed the car for a few days.
I just still don’t trust them.
I didn’t worry about all the reviews of the carbon ceramic brakes being basically binary in stop and go traffic. I’d just go plain steel rotors and deal with a little fade.

[SeanWRT]

The Alfa is the better driver's car. That the sec you sit in and hold the steering wheel you'll know.

My only two issues with Alfa are that you can't open exhaust valve in any mode outside of race and the abnormal brake feeling at low speed.

Let's see what Alfa can do with the facelift model in one or two years.

The changes I'm looking to see:
1) Exhaust valve button
2) Improved brake feel
3) LED headlight (possibly Bugatti Chiron style)
4) Need a higher quality shifter (ZF8) than the plastic as is.
5) Infotainment improvement if possible.

#1, #2, #3 are huge. Others are bonus.

At this point, M3 is still an overall better package as a car.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by NickyC

My heart says Alfa, everything else says M3.

^This!

[G4BR13L]

Don’t start to complain in a couple of months about how the cabin noises start to irritate you in the Alfa. The quality is nowhere as good as the bimmer and c’mon Alfa, really? They don’t have a good rep in Belgium. There are more factors to take into account than exterior looks and engine. But choose with your heart... but coming to a BMW forum asking basically which is the better car goes beyond my understanding.

If you ask me the Alfa is a piece of sh*t car and even if it had +100 whp more I would not even consider for a fraction of a second to replace my F82 with the Alfa.

[Adcampo]

Originally Posted by NickyC

My heart says Alfa, everything else says M3.

Sort of how I feel.

[domino_z]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

The Alfa is the better driver's car. That the sec you sit in the cabin holding the steering wheel you'll know it.

My only two issues with Alfa is that you can't open exhaust value in any mode outside of race and abnormal brake feeling at low speed.

Let's see what Alfa can do with the facelift model in one or two years.

The changes I'm looking to see:
1) Exhaust value button
2) Improved brake feel
3) LED headlight (possibly Bugatti Chiron style)
4) Need a higher quality shifter (ZF8) than the plastic as is.
5) Infotainment improvement if possible.

#1, #2, #3 are huge. Others are bonus.

At this point, M3 is still an overall better package as a car.

I bought a controller for the valves, works just like the solutions for the f80

Brake feel on mine with ceramics is fine, but yes initially slowing from 5 km/h to stop is a bit weird but you get used to it

Carplay has sorted the infotainment imo, I get full screen google earth too

Everything else agreed

[G4BR13L]

Apparently the thread got moved to another subforum and now this thread makes more sense.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by G4BR13L

Apparently the thread got moved to another subforum and now this thread makes more sense.

I think it should have been merged with one of the other threads. I'm pretty sure this will will spiral into circular discussions like in the other threads...

[Debtm3]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

The Alfa is the better driver's car. That the sec you sit in and hold the steering wheel you'll know.

My only two issues with Alfa are that you can't open exhaust valve in any mode outside of race and the abnormal brake feeling at low speed.

Let's see what Alfa can do with the facelift model in one or two years.

The changes I'm looking to see:
1) Exhaust valve button
2) Improved brake feel
3) LED headlight (possibly Bugatti Chiron style)
4) Need a higher quality shifter (ZF8) than the plastic as is.
5) Infotainment improvement if possible.

#1, #2, #3 are huge. Others are bonus.

At this point, M3 is still an overall better package as a car.

I disagree with the Alfa being a better driver car, I’m on my 3rd m3 and it’s a cs it’s such an amazing car, every time it came to buying a new car I test drove the quads and there was just something I didn’t like as much as my m3!




Oh yeah the brakes on the quad should be outlawed they suck!

[Bumpinjeep]

I've driven both extensively & loved how both cars felt. The reason why I went with the M3 is 1) the transmission. 2) The interior on the Giulia looks far too cheap for the price, in reality, a Mazda 6 has a better cabin. 3) The technology (infotainment screens) are a decade behind. 4) The brakes 5) The exterior looks good in some angles & horrible in others. 6) the fact that it comes on basically race tires, take those off and the performance suffers. 7) the depreciation on the Alfa is scary. 8) obviously the car has a horrible history of reliability.
it's not like the Giulia is without merit. The car is seriously fast in a straight line. Once the tires warm up & the outside temp is above 45 & the road is dry, the car feels like it's on rails.
To me, the risk is just too great to buy one.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by Adcampo

Thinking of getting a new car. Both would be loaded automatics.

This would be a DD that i would keep at most 3 years.

I've owned a bunch of m cars. Most recently an F82.

If leasing and the monthly is similar - definitely get the Alfa - it's much more of a car and a statement.

If buying, might still be the Alfa.
M3 is going out of production, and will be taking a sizable depreciation hit when the G80 arrives the next year. So both will be depreciating fast over the next 2-5 years.

Test drive both, the same day.
See which one you want more the next morning.

a

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

I've driven both extensively & loved how both cars felt. The reason why I went with the M3 is 1) the transmission. 2) The interior on the Giulia looks far too cheap for the price, in reality, a Mazda 6 has a better cabin. 3) The technology (infotainment screens) are a decade behind. 4) The brakes 5) The exterior looks good in some angles & horrible in others. 6) the fact that it comes on basically race tires, take those off and the performance suffers. 7) the depreciation on the Alfa is scary. 8) obviously the car has a horrible history of reliability.
it's not like the Giulia is without merit. The car is seriously fast in a straight line. Once the tires warm up & the outside temp is above 45 & the road is dry, the car feels like it's on rails.
To me, the risk is just too great to buy one.

I agree with most of your arguments but have different opinion on the interior. The most part of cabin is leather wrapped with contrast stitch and is very well made. The fit and finish is as good as if not slightly better than M3/4 (merino leather opted). There're places where it looks cheap but so is there with the BMW. Overall, I wouldn't consider QV interior as a con.

As for tire, the P Zero Corsa the factory tire isn't really that good. Changing to Cup2 or PS4S will see performance improvement.

[shu5892001]

Originally Posted by shortseller

Coupe version.

Isn't this just the 8C that was out from 2007?

[shortseller]

Originally Posted by shu5892001

Isn't this just the 8C that was out from 2007?

Alfa Romeo GTV due out in 2022. Updated photo.

[shortseller]

Originally Posted by PureModelsOnly

2nd pic looks like a bad photoshop

Not many photos have been leaked. The first one looks real, the second might be wishful thinking? Either way, 600 hp will be nice to see when it comes out from Alfa. My 2018 will be 4 years old right around the unveiling which has me really excited to see it. The 4C was never practical enough for me and Ive never seen an 8C before, were they ever released in the US, so the GTV Coupe looks like a winner if they can build them satisfactorily.

[shortseller]

Originally Posted by PureModelsOnly

Hopefully there will be a Stevlio Quad Coupe also because why not

[mcc3456]

For over 2 years I’ve read non-stop negativity spewed on this forum about the Alfa. Kind of makes me laugh, because it has been the most reliable and enjoyable driving car I’ve owned to date, and based on my prior cars, that speaks volumes.

The ownership experience has been so smooth, about two months ago, I leased a Stelvio Ti Sport for my GF, which is a hell of a vehicle for the money. We only paid $42k for a $54k vehicle. It handles/rides incredibly and is seriously quick for the segment/price. Was SO impressed with how that one drives, actually just bought a 2018 Stelvio Quad for $20k off of MSRP (similar price to a loaded X3 M40i), and have also just bought a completely-loaded 4C Spider for $23k off of MSRP. People talk about depreciation on Alfas, but if you factor in actual purchase price, you’re probably going to experience much less than if you bought something new from the competition. Case in point, I was considering a slightly used 718 Boxster GTS (1,200 miles), but even that car was selling for $21k off MSRP and it was only 2 months old, and though a really nice car, was not as fun to drive compared to the 4C Spider, but then again, with my current garage, I was seeking a true exotic sports car experience, which the Boxster doesn’t really provide, plus it cost $20k more than the 4C. The Porsche is great choice though if it is going to be your daily driver.

I could refute every negative comment above (Depreciation, Reliability, Interior Quality, Corsa R tires, Drive by wire brakes, and on and on), but it would not matter because the bias is so thick on this forum, that most folks fail to be objective anyway. The only thing I will say is that just because something is different than what you are currently used to, it does not make it objectively bad. For instance, the Alfa’s brakes work amazingly well, but the brake feel just takes a moment to get used to, but once you do, you’ll then find hydraulic brakes kind of spongey. Frankly, I much prefer the firmer pedal input of the Alfa now.

Same thing goes for complaints about interior quality. That one is particularly funny because the Alfa comes standard with incredibly comfortable seats and a full leather interior with tons of Carbon Fiber Trim. You don’t even need to upgrade to a leather dash like on the M3. Without the costly full leather interior upgrade, the BMW interior is like a freaking rental car. Said another way, it is all a matter of perspective. BTW...lest you not forget the Alfa also has a standard CF Driveshaft (even on the $39k base models), plus a CF Roof, CF Hood, and CF active aero...all standard. You also get glorious real engine sounds, not synthetic shit piped through the speakers. Again, perspective, Folks!

I hear lots of forum members say the Alfa only handles and grips the road well because of the “cheater” Corsa R tires, which is actually a complete joke, because several Alfa owners have replaced their Pirellis with Michelin Pilot 4S and they claim the car actually handles and grips much better, not worse. On my former M3, I only got 16k of wear out of the MPSS, yet my alleged “cheater” Pirellis also lasted 16k miles before I trashed them, and was with about 1,000-1,500 miles left on them just to avoid having to re-mount them in the Spring for only a few months.

In a nutshell, the negative comments are extremely biased (frankly, bordering on ignorant), and though I get this is a BMW Forum, there is still a big difference between expressing an educated opinion and just spewing misinformation just to talk down the competition to like minded people. Do yourselves a favor and realize that Alfas are going to drive like Alfas and BMWs are going to drive like BMWs. One is not objectively superior to one another, just maybe different than what you’re used to or might envision yourself wanting to fulfill a specific image.

If you’re not including the Alfa in the conversation come purchase time, you’re kind of short changing yourself. They are no better or worse than the competition (except maybe on infotainment). Anyway, be true car guys and appreciate all brands, not just BMWs, because lord only knows, I too could point all the perceived flaws of the M3 just as easily, especially after having owned one for 2 years.

Good luck out there, be open-minded, choose what you like best, and drive safe!