Top Gear tests an M3 vs. a Model 3 Performance at Thunderhill

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Robert

Most M3 owners do how many track days a month? Ideally, I like a Tesla on weekdays and a Cayman GT4 on weekend track days.

I do about 16-20 track days per season, so that’s about 4 days/month during the active season. The main reason for me owning M3/4 over the last 18 years is to serve as dual duty cars: practical daily drivers and track toys.

I it is only a question of time before some EVs will be able to serve that dual duty. When they are, I will more than likely own one.

[Blksnowflake]

Originally Posted by Robert

Real driving experience is the ability to wrangle the horses in front of the carriage, hear their breath and feel the dirt kicked up by the hoofs... says no one these days.

Hearing the engine and shifting the gears will mean nothing in 50 years. Everything you just described is what people are used to, which 2-3 generation from now is absolutely meaningless. Heck, many of us won't be around in the next 50 years. Happy motoring.

I've never read anything that was so factual on this thread.....and hilarious.

[MmmmmM2]

Originally Posted by Robert

Real driving experience is the ability to wrangle the horses in front of the carriage, hear their breath and feel the dirt kicked up by the hoofs... says no one these days.

Hearing the engine and shifting the gears will mean nothing in 50 years. Everything you just described is what people are used to, which 2-3 generation from now is absolutely meaningless. Heck, many of us won't be around in the next 50 years. Happy motoring.

I mean sure, but you're no fun lol

[BMWsully]

Originally Posted by Robert

Real driving experience is the ability to wrangle the horses in front of the carriage, hear their breath and feel the dirt kicked up by the hoofs... says no one these days.

Hearing the engine and shifting the gears will mean nothing in 50 years. Everything you just described is what people are used to, which 2-3 generation from now is absolutely meaningless. Heck, many of us won't be around in the next 50 years. Happy motoring.

And your point is? Simple fact is, we don't know what the future holds for automobiles. Is electric likely part of the future roadmap? Sure. Will it be similar to the incarnations that we have now? Almost certainly not.

How did Beta Max and HD-DVDs pan out?

[adc]

I’m still waiting to see a Tesla at the tracks I go to. Might be awhile.

Just by reading the first few posts and the breathless kudos of the brand supporters, I was prepared to give it to Tesla for a milestone achieved. But after reading more, I realized it’s the same type of news as the Civic Type R lapping the Nurburgring faster than an M3. Meaning, preconditioned for a specific outcome, not going to happen, fake news, marketing BS, and the usual uninformed public and commentators.

Any Model 3 owner wanting a quick reality check, please come to some of the beautiful Eastern tracks and show everyone how it’s done.

[Fortyb]

I don't care how fast it is... No exhaust are engine sounds, It will be like driving a coffin.. Turn on the Auto pilot and all you have to do is lay there.

[Humdizzle]

Tesla may steal a few M3 owners. I'm guessing its the guys with leased DCT cars who use them every day in stop and go traffic or in the city. Or if they live in an apartment/condo and only have 1 parking spot. The tesla is a much better daily i'd think for them.

But its not stealing the guys who keep the M3 as a fun toy or track car.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by adc

I’m still waiting to see a Tesla at the tracks I go to. Might be awhile.

Just by reading the first few posts and the breathless kudos of the brand supporters, I was prepared to give it to Tesla for a milestone achieved. But after reading more, I realized it’s the same type of news as the Civic Type R lapping the Nurburgring faster than an M3. Meaning, preconditioned for a specific outcome, not going to happen, fake news, marketing BS, and the usual uninformed public and commentators.

Any Model 3 owner wanting a quick reality check, please come to some of the beautiful Eastern tracks and show everyone how it’s done.

adc,

There was in fact a Tesla M3 performance at Watkins Glen a few weeks! Novice group, but hey at least a few ppl are venturing into track land.

[adc]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

adc,

There was in fact a Tesla M3 performance at Watkins Glen a few weeks! Novice group, but hey at least a few ppl are venturing into track land.

I’d love to see it! I don’t wish it to fail, in fact I fully expect in 5 or 10 years to be driving an EV to the track, why not. I bet it must be eerie to hear the tire noise but have no other indication of your speed or how hard the engine is working - new skills to learn.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by adc

I’d love to see it! I don’t wish it to fail, in fact I fully expect in 5 or 10 years to be driving an EV to the track, why not. I bet it must be eerie to hear the tire noise but have no other indication of your speed or how hard the engine is working - new skills to learn.

I just autoXed my TM3P last weekend, will be doing a DE @LimeRock later this summer (they've installed L2 chargers in the paddock over the winter).

All feedback comes from tire and wind noise, plus the butt.
The car is heavy, and definitely needs more rubber on all four corners. Acceleration and braking are excellent, but I had to slow down way more for the slaloms than I would have in the F80, as all that extra weight translates into lower speeds through the tight transition turns.
Other than that, it was surprisingly good.

TrackMode is a definite improvement on the regular TC, but is still intrusive.
I need to figure out how to defeat TC intervention altogether, as I had to figure out how to drive around the TC. Some folks unplug wheel speed sensors, but I don't know what that does to TrackMode behavior.

a

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

Tesla may steal a few M3 owners. I'm guessing its the guys with leased DCT cars who use them every day in stop and go traffic or in the city. Or if they live in an apartment/condo and only have 1 parking spot. The tesla is a much better daily i'd think for them.

But its not stealing the guys who keep the M3 as a fun toy or track car.

What's wrong with leased DCT cars eh?!

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by jmg

What's wrong with leased DCT cars eh?!

lol. well in general those are the guys who probably put their M3/M4s in automatic mode 90% of the time. easier to transition to a tesla when you don't shift your own gears. But I do know there are guys like me who, even though they have a dct car, will never throw it into auto mode and like shifting there own gears because they know better than the computer.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

lol. well in general those are the guys who probably put their M3/M4s in automatic mode 90% of the time. easier to transition to a tesla when you don't shift your own gears. But I do know there are guys like me who, even though they have a dct car, will never throw it into auto mode and like shifting there own gears because they know better than the computer.

How do you know those aren't women
Do you also know every and all the M car owners and their personal driving style ?

I've imagine you've got quite an expansive library, all those books you've read by looking at their covers

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by afadeev

I just autoXed my TM3P last weekend, will be doing a DE @LimeRock later this summer (they've installed L2 chargers in the paddock over the winter).

It will be interesting to see how many laps you get from a full charge. L2 chargers are not exactly quick.

Road&Track mentioned the chargers in their Tesla Model 3 Perf track test at VIR. They went through two Model 3 battery charges in one morning.

At full speed, each lap of the 1.5-mile circuit burned up about nine miles of battery range during our testing. Lime Rock Park has just installed a passel of 240V Level 2 Tesla chargers at its facility—not Superchargers, but the kind of residential charger that will fill your Tesla's battery from dead in about six to eight hours.

There are, of course, drawbacks. After an entire morning of track laps and hooning around Lime Rock's autocross and skidpad, our two Model 3s each had less than 40 miles of battery range left. Making the 110-mile drive back to my home in Brooklyn, NY meant plugging into one of Lime Rock's chargers for an hour while I grabbed lunch, then pit stopping at the first Supercharger on my route home. The situation was never dire, but it required a bit more forward planning than simply GPSing the nearest gas station.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by adc

I’d love to see it! I don’t wish it to fail, in fact I fully expect in 5 or 10 years to be driving an EV to the track, why not. I bet it must be eerie to hear the tire noise but have no other indication of your speed or how hard the engine is working - new skills to learn.

Solid state batteries will change the EV game. Panasonic says they are 10 years away.

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

Compare the aggression of driving, main example last corner coming onto the main straight. I get the feeling this is definitely some sort of fluff piece. I see they got the red carpet treatment from Telsa. They have other videos up on their site of full factory tour, road trip test using supercharging, invite to model y release. Also smart decision using a non-comp M3 on Contis and a standing start for lap time.

I have to agree with you. Clarkson said on Grand Tour that last time he reviewed a Tesla and shat on it (in Tesla's eyes) they tried suing him and banned him from ever reviewing a Tesla, until recently on Grand Tour. So they actually limited his recent GT review of the Tesla SUV.

Not saying this is why the M3 lost, but I bet it played a factor in this test.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

It will be interesting to see how many laps you get from a full charge. L2 chargers are not exactly quick.

Road&Track mentioned the chargers in their Tesla Model 3 Perf track test at VIR. They went through two Model 3 battery charges in one morning.

Rated consumption is 4.1mi per kWh, so using 9mi per lap means they used about 2.2kwh per lap, or about 1.5kwh per mile, or 34 laps at that track

It won’t work to track a model 3 as an owner if you can’t leave to use a supercharger in between session

This Sunday I went to Toronto motorsports park with my brother and we lapped for about 2.5hr straight, switching drivers, and there’s no way we could have used an EV in that situation (with no run groups and lapping as much as you want / can handle)

[IS350]

Originally Posted by afadeev

I just autoXed my TM3P last weekend, will be doing a DE @LimeRock later this summer (they've installed L2 chargers in the paddock over the winter).

All feedback comes from tire and wind noise, plus the butt.
The car is heavy, and definitely needs more rubber on all four corners. Acceleration and braking are excellent, but I had to slow down way more for the slaloms than I would have in the F80, as all that extra weight translates into lower speeds through the tight transition turns.
Other than that, it was surprisingly good.

TrackMode is a definite improvement on the regular TC, but is still intrusive.
I need to figure out how to defeat TC intervention altogether, as I had to figure out how to drive around the TC. Some folks unplug wheel speed sensors, but I don't know what that does to TrackMode behavior.

a

Excellent. Did you notice much power drain after multiple laps?

I only tracked my M3 a few times a year, so I really don't miss it, compared to my TM3P. The acceleration almost feels impossible. Stop-n-go traffic is now peaceful with autopilot!
I don't love this, though.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

Tesla may steal a few M3 owners. I'm guessing its the guys with leased DCT cars who use them every day in stop and go traffic or in the city. Or if they live in an apartment/condo and only have 1 parking spot. The tesla is a much better daily i'd think for them.

But its not stealing the guys who keep the M3 as a fun toy or track car.

My questions for these M3 owners are why not buy a Cayman, which is so much more enjoyable on the track with 600-700 lbs less. Current gen M3 is so porky compare to E36 and E46.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Robert

My questions for these M3 owners are why not buy a Cayman, which is so much more enjoyable on the track with 600-700 lbs less. Current gen M3 is so porky compare to E36 and E46.

Because no rear seat.

The main attraction of the M3/4 for me is its ability to serve a dual purpose. It is my 4-season daily driver that I use to drive to work rain, snow or shine, drive the kids to school, do trips to the lumbar yard and do family road trips with the 2 kids. It also serves as my track toy for ~20 track days per year. Try doing that with a Cayman.

BTW, my DCT M4 weighs about the same as my E46 6MT did, so it is not that porky.

[Cars are the new horse]

Originally Posted by Robert

My questions for these M3 owners are why not buy a Cayman, which is so much more enjoyable on the track with 600-700 lbs less. Current gen M3 is so porky compare to E36 and E46.

I refuse to buy a 4-cylinder car, and iDrive is much better than Porsche's system.

[55parallelM3]

Originally Posted by adc

I’d love to see it! I don’t wish it to fail, in fact I fully expect in 5 or 10 years to be driving an EV to the track, why not. I bet it must be eerie to hear the tire noise but have no other indication of your speed or how hard the engine is working - new skills to learn.

My friend and I went to MotoGP @ Laguna Seca in 2011, they did an E-bike demo race (I think they could only get a few laps in at that time) and it was the weirdest race we've ever watched! The only "noise" I remember was like a zzzzzz, lol its' hard to put into words! On the plus side, you could really hear the announcer on the PA!