Adaptive M Suspension..Is it needed?

[jskrilla]

I think after reading more into it i'm leaning more toward the M Suspension. Seems like the more reasonable thing to do. For an extra grand why not!

[nachob]

Originally Posted by jskrilla

I think after reading more into it i'm leaning more toward the M Suspension. Seems like the more reasonable thing to do. For an extra grand why not!

The real M suspension is the fixed firm system IMHO. The comfort dynamic version has no place in a real M car IMHO. If it was a non dynamic Sport/ Race option maybe but Comfort and Sport? C'mon have some dignity!

: )

[jskrilla]

Originally Posted by nachob

The real M suspension is the fixed firm system IMHO. The comfort dynamic version has no place in a real M car IMHO. If it was a non dynamic Sport/ Race option maybe but Comfort and Sport? C'mon have some dignity!

: )

Another good point here also!

[lugnutm4]

Originally Posted by nachob

The real M suspension is the fixed firm system IMHO. The comfort dynamic version has no place in a real M car IMHO. If it was a non dynamic Sport/ Race option maybe but Comfort and Sport? C'mon have some dignity!

: )

I would agree with you if all we did was drive on one smooth track that the suspension was tuned for. Since we drive on real roads with undulations, frost cracks and POT HOLES an active (i.e. one that adjusts every 2.5 ms) suspension is a great idea that helps the car maintain better control in real world situations. As for whether it has a place in a real M car. Remember that fully active suspension had a HUGE place in Formula 1 for many years and provides a huge improvement in speed and handling of those cars.

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by jskrilla

Another good point here also!

Not really. It just shows that he doesn't understand how the adaptive system works.

M adaptive is more capable than the passive suspension.

[BhamDavid]

Originally Posted by Racer20

Not really. It just shows that he doesn't understand how the adaptive system works.

M adaptive is more capable than the passive suspension.

Agreed. There's some real reluctance of the masses to realize there is technology in the adaptive suspension to provide superior handling capabilities. They see it as merely an option to provide a smoother ride. Just sheer ignorance...

[nachob]

Originally Posted by Zeroblade

So...

Standard Suspension = no button next to shifter on center console
Adaptive M = button next to shifter that lets you pick Comfort, Sport, Sport+

?

"Buttons, an M car not make"
Master Yoda circa 2334

How about this! Someone show me an F1 car that has a Comfort button or setting and I will order my next car BLoaded automatic with every button known to man! F1 seems to get mentioned here a
Lot. I follow f1 and maybe I
Missed the
Comfort button? Please show it to me!

[FTS]

Originally Posted by nachob

Comfort button? Please show it to me!

It is on the steering wheel, labeled "Monaco"

[Gearhead999s]

I have already refused my 1st ordered M4 that was built without the adaptive suspension when it was on the order when submitted by my dealer.Both my E92 M3's had the EDC and it has worked out very well for myself with the everyday street manners on our shitty winter beaten roads & being used for serious track duty 10+ weekends a year.This suspension really helps to define the well rounded personality that the 3/4 series has when properly equipped. If I did not get a car with the EDC,I would feel that the car is missing something!

[BhamDavid]

Originally Posted by nachob

"Buttons, an M car not make"
Master Yoda circa 2334

How about this! Someone show me an F1 car that has a Comfort button or setting and I will order my next car BLoaded automatic with every button known to man! F1 seems to get mentioned here a
Lot. I follow f1 and maybe I
Missed the
Comfort button? Please show it to me!

OK then... See:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mot...abandoned.html

Note that Williams dominated F1 with their active suspension until it was outlawed.

Im sure you'll love to learn to appreciate buttons and the technology behind them.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by BhamDavid

OK then... See:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mot...abandoned.html

Note that Williams dominated F1 with their active suspension until it was outlawed.

Im sure you'll love to learn to appreciate buttons and the technology behind them.

Yes, it dominated ON THE TRACK....had problems on streets. They had to turn it off on the streets of Monaco because it got messed up by the differing real road street surfaces! I WAS THERE! I saw Ayrton Senna hold him off and after a flat and win the race. I was there! One of the greatest F1 finished ever.

Secondly, the F1 cars do not have a COMFORT setting. The purpose the F1 suspension was to win races. The purpose of the button is comfort . While that is nice, people are calling the dynamic stuff the REAL M suspension and the real one is FIRM, manly, focused on performance.

Finally, there are systems that allow you to stiffen shocks and soften them but once you stiffen or soften them, they are fixed not a computer calculating all the angle, throttle, road etc. I think those are cool and fine but the firm fixed suspension is to me the real deal and dynamic with comfort button is not. I would even feel differently if the base was as firm as the fixed suspension, then you could go super stiff. But to Consider a Comfort Button somehow related to F1 racing is dishonest IMHO.

Anyway, we all have opinions which is why I add in my humble opinion. It's just that, an opinionl. The original poster asked for opinions. He asked it is it "needed?" Several said that it does "need" it and that it is the "real" M suspension. I disagree respectfully and the answer is clearly no it does not "need" it. If you like the comfort then that is fine too, you are spending a ton of money and deserve what you want. Just offering a counter point to those that said you need it.

I can tell with absolute certainty that no F1 car has a comfort setting and real roads are unpredictable and it is difficult to program from every road situation which is why in the 1992 Monaco Grand Prix, Williams which also had a more powerful motor, had to disable active suspension. It worked great on the dedicated tracks but got confused on the varying street course of Monaco. I'm sure the technology is more advanced now but it still leaves the issue of a computer controlling the suspension in an unpredictable environment. The Dynamic suspension would actually do better on a track whereas it could do weird things on roads. In the end, it would just be so simple if Car and Driver ran identical M3s with fixed and dynamic setups and let the numbers talk. The closest we had was a comparisons on different dates between E92 M3s with and without competition packages but those are not comparable because the competition package had 19" wheels. Even then, most of the reviewers noted no significant lap times between competition and fixed non competition cars while noting that actually the dynamic car was jarring compared to the regular M3. One of the responders explained honestly that they drive on crap roads and that the EDC is nice. I get that, but the fixed setup is what M does very well and EDC is not needed and can feel weird in some cases. I hope someone does a comparison of two identical M3s. I will write to Car and Driver and see if they are up for that.

[BhamDavid]

None are so blind as those who will not see.

[Jaymax85]

Is there point in ordering adaptive suspension if one will eventually go with kW v3s?

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by nachob

I can tell with absolute certainty that no F1 car has a comfort setting and real roads are unpredictable and it is difficult to program from every road situation . . . It worked great on the dedicated tracks but got confused on the varying street course of Monaco. I'm sure the technology is more advanced now but it still leaves the issue of a computer controlling the suspension in an unpredictable environment. The Dynamic suspension would actually do better on a track whereas it could do weird things on roads.

Please, for the love of god, stop spreading your "knowledge" of how these systems work. The technology has come a long way, and the systems we have today are far better than what F1 had 30 years ago. A well tuned adaptive suspension is more capable than an equally well tuned passive damper on the street and the track, for ride and for handling. The computers don't get "confused" and they can handle the unpredictability of public roads just fine.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by Racer20

Please, for the love of god, stop spreading your "knowledge" of how these systems work.

[Cfichman]

well, I just got my '16 M3 without adaptive and it may be the biggest regret about the car. I got full led instead and the car feels very bumpy. I could be sick of it after a while. Kind of had an oh s*%^ moment on the way home.

[BMW M4 PWR]

I believe there was road tests and track journals which both confirmed the EDC equipped cars were NOT faster than the passive suspensions M4's on the tracks they were tested on. M engineers set the passives at between the sport and sport + on the EDC in terms of firmness and then set other suspension calibrations to as performance oriented as it got without harming daily comfort too much. With EDC you mainly just get adustability of ride comfort. (Im speaking in terms of real world all out track performance in specifically THIS F8X application) Btw, my comments are in no way ment as a knock on dynamically controlled suspensions which are a great technology generally speaking. Also, if someone's serious enough to go any more modded than a simple spring upgrade and take it to coilovers this whole discussion becomes useless and the extra grand spend on EDC went straight in the garbage... BMW M division did a fabulous job with their non EDC (and lighter) suspension. Either way, you couldn't of gone wrong with ordering either suspension option on these cars😉👍 (unless you were set on building an all out track beast with coilovers/etc then EDC would onviously of been a waste of funds)

[jwzimm]

Originally Posted by BMW M4 PWR

I believe there was road tests and track journals which both confirmed the EDC equipped cars were NOT faster than the passive suspensions M4's on the tracks they were tested on. M engineers set the passives at between the sport and sport + on the EDC in terms of firmness and then set other suspension calibrations to as performance oriented as it got without harming daily comfort too much. With EDC you mainly just get adustability of ride comfort. (Im speaking in terms of real world all out track performance in specifically THIS F8X application) Btw, my comments are in no way ment as a knock on dynamically controlled suspensions which are a great technology generally speaking. Also, if someone's serious enough to go any more modded than a simple spring upgrade and take it to coilovers this whole discussion becomes useless and the extra grand spend on EDC went straight in the garbage... BMW M division did a fabulous job with their non EDC (and lighter) suspension. Either way, you couldn't of gone wrong with ordering either suspension option on these cars😉👍 (unless you were set on building an all out track beast with coilovers/etc then EDC would onviously of been a waste of funds)

I think one of the things folks here are missing is that the different settings are not "static". The adaptive M suspension is just that, adaptive. It monitors the dynamics of the car and adjusts the damper settings very quickly. That means it can react to changing road surfaces better than a fixed suspension.

Not that they are the same but the McClaren MP4 uses a fully adaptive suspension in place of anti-roll bars. That is a good example of one of the great handling benefits of an active suspension.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by BMW M4 PWR

I believe there was road tests and track journals which both confirmed the EDC equipped cars were NOT faster than the passive suspensions M4's on the tracks they were tested on. M engineers set the passives at between the sport and sport + on the EDC in terms of firmness and then set other suspension calibrations to as performance oriented as it got without harming daily comfort too much. With EDC you mainly just get adustability of ride comfort. (Im speaking in terms of real world all out track performance in specifically THIS F8X application) Btw, my comments are in no way ment as a knock on dynamically controlled suspensions which are a great technology generally speaking. Also, if someone's serious enough to go any more modded than a simple spring upgrade and take it to coilovers this whole discussion becomes useless and the extra grand spend on EDC went straight in the garbage... BMW M division did a fabulous job with their non EDC (and lighter) suspension. Either way, you couldn't of gone wrong with ordering either suspension option on these cars���� (unless you were set on building an all out track beast with coilovers/etc then EDC would onviously of been a waste of funds)

Can you please find that reference, because I sure don't remember any tests objectively comparing both suspensions on the F8X.

EDC is the technologically superior suspension. Yes, BMW did a great job calibrating the static suspension, but the dynamic suspension adapts dynamically to changing road and driving conditions regardless of the selected setting.

[TRZ06]

I will re-iterate the last two comments..

Active suspension is superior to a passive system. No matter what mode you are in out of the 3, the system is always making adjustments to the damping in milliseconds.

The biggest area of benefit to this is when the suspension is loaded up in a turn and gets upset from a dip in the road, or from what ever, anything that upsets the chassis. The active system will settle the rear-end and the chassis faster than a passive system will. It also does it at all 4 corners independently.

Now, I am not saying the passive system is bad on the M, I am sure BMW did a great job of tuning those shocks, it is after all an M car. I'm just saying an active system can and will react faster to chassis upset over a passive system.

The best active system I have had on a car is the magnetic shocks on my Audi TTRS. I think the magnetic shock technology is the best and quickest acting, but this newest version of BMW's adaptive suspension is really damn good.

[16M3]

Whether you should or should not get Adaptive is subjective. I just test drove a '15 M3 with Passive and it was great. Firm but not jarring, damping was excellent. Not questioning the technical and overall superiority of the Adaptive. I intend to test drive adaptive very soon. However as of now I would be fine with Passive. Can't wait to order.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Active suspension is superior to a passive system.

I might have missed it, but from reading the M4 GTS press release it looks like it has full coilovers with mechanically adjusted dampers (i.e. not computerized adaptive dampers)

If that's true, it would be interesting to hear about why adaptive dampers weren't fitted.

Personally, I plan to purchase aftermarket full coilovers and passed on the adaptive dampers