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      01-08-2021, 01:17 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by JamesGames View Post
Currently factory BMW TPT oil is shell/pennzoil gas to liquid (GTL) oil but not the same as over the counter in store pennzoils.
Any idea what is the viscocity?
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      01-09-2021, 02:12 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by JamesGames View Post

Factory oil is good stuff. Wont more or less make a difference at all versus amsoil. Actually factory oil has low Noack which is good for less “gunk” buildup.
I disagree, it will make a difference because it has a detergent in it. So it cleans as it lubricates. And, it cleans everything it goes along, pistons, rods, lifters, plugs, ect..
A mechanic of +50 years proved this to me last year when he bought a 7-series that didnt run, and sat in a yard for 4 years. Didn't need to take apart the engine to solve the sticky lifter's issue he had. The oil he cycled the first time came out looking like gravy, but the second time, it looked clear/clean. It cleaned the engine and it runs fine now after it's been running for some time now.

Factory oil is just a step up from the stuff on the gas station shelf.
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      01-09-2021, 10:37 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunnny View Post
I disagree, it will make a difference because it has a detergent in it. So it cleans as it lubricates. And, it cleans everything it goes along, pistons, rods, lifters, plugs, ect..
A mechanic of +50 years proved this to me last year when he bought a 7-series that didnt run, and sat in a yard for 4 years. Didn't need to take apart the engine to solve the sticky lifter's issue he had. The oil he cycled the first time came out looking like gravy, but the second time, it looked clear/clean. It cleaned the engine and it runs fine now after it's been running for some time now.

Factory oil is just a step up from the stuff on the gas station shelf.
What are you talking about... Stop spreading misinformation. Disagree all you want but you are using an opinion and what you heard from your dads buddy who drove a tractor for 300km... how does that compare to a Direct injection turbo engine? Now you use an example of a dead 7 series that sat on the lot for who knows how long with an oil change that was last done finally after x amount of miles? And what was it originally filled with? See my issue with your examples?

BMW factory fill doesn't have detergents to clean like your amsoil recommendation? Please look up the specs for BMW LL-01. All LL-01 spec'd oil has detergents in it! As does any other "LL oil" from BMW such as LL-04 / LL-01FE etc. Long life oil without detergents is asking for it. Old BMWs that used drain intervals of 15,000 miles probably won't do so hot. 5000-8,000 mile oil changes and LL-01 oil is just fine.

LL-01 oils are typically API SN SM SL. Here is a quote from bimmerworld to show indeed these oils have detergents:
"API SN. Intended for 2007+ gasoline direct injection cars with ceramic catalytic converters instead of metallic cats. As large amounts of zinc and phosphate (ZDDP) and carbon ash (SAPS) are harmful to the ceramic material, they have been replaced with other additives. More detergentshave been added to prevent carbon and sludge build-up (see the section below on Direct Injection engines). This is not bad oil for these engines and if you still have factory cats this is the oil rating you should be using. Bonus points if the bottle carries a Mercedes 229.5 (MB229.5) approval as Mercedes standards are among the highest of OE manufacturers. If you need extra protection for track use or aggressive driving, switch to a thicker viscosity.
API SM. 2005-2010 models but this doesn't really apply to BMW. Use an SN oil for a car that retains all of its factory equipment.
API SL. 2005 or older. Many people consider SL to be the last "good oil" before ZDDP levels were reduced. We recommend an SL oil for pretty much all cars built before the E90 generation: E85, E83, E63, E60, E53, E46, E39, E38, Z3, E36, E34, and E32. It can be used in E30 and older models too but only in thicker viscosity. These cars can use an SN oil but SL is much more appropriate. It can also be used in newer cars (E9X, F3X, etc) that have had cats removed (such as race cars) or street cars converted to metallic cats. The higher ZDDP levels will be advantageous in aggressive driving."

VW 502 / Porsche A40 / Mercedes 229.5.. Oils that typically have LL01 also pass these other specs. Look up these specs and what torture tests these oils go under in order to pass this "minimum spec". They have to pass certain cleanliness, vapor loss, wear tests, maintain certain oil viscosity level, be sheer stable to a certain point, etc etc etc.

Amsoil 0w40 vs Castrol 0w40 vs BMW 5w30 won't make a difference at all if changed on similar schedule. All 3 carry detergents! Don't buy into brand and hearsay of 300km tractors. Please look up these specs for oil on BITOG for more info and compare used oil analysis there and the abundance of information for oil education there.

Last edited by JamesGames; 01-09-2021 at 11:17 AM..
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      01-23-2021, 05:31 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYG View Post
I used the LL-01 FE with plenty of track miles. Sent it to blackstone a few times and everytime "you're changing oil too often - looks brand new."

You're overthinking it.

All modern synthetics perform the primary task of lubricating and secondary tasks of:
1) Oxidation
2) Rust Protection
3) Emissions
4) etc...

The difference between most brands is how many parts per million of additive they put of secondary functions and believe me those numbers pretty insignificant. Just use whatever BMW tells you to use.
can you post some UOAs of your LL-01FE oil? BITOG forums seem to hate the FE oil and the leichtlauf too.
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      01-23-2021, 08:32 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by sharpmoney View Post
can you post some UOAs of your LL-01FE oil? BITOG forums seem to hate the FE oil and the leichtlauf too.
Yeah, just need to edit some of the personal info out when I get to my office computer.

What do they hate about it? Remember BITOG is a forum of people that discuss the intricacies of lubrication. Similar to wine enthusiasts; a small percentage of people are qualified to talk about it and the rest is regurgitated nonsense from someone that has never seen the periodic table of elements.

See if you can spot a trend with what cars are most often discussed on oil forums for daily use. I'll give you a hint, they're mostly direct injection engines. A lot of people still expect DI engines to behave like port injected engines and oil seems to be the first place they gravitate toward.
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      01-29-2021, 03:13 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYG View Post
Yeah, just need to edit some of the personal info out when I get to my office computer.

What do they hate about it? Remember BITOG is a forum of people that discuss the intricacies of lubrication. Similar to wine enthusiasts; a small percentage of people are qualified to talk about it and the rest is regurgitated nonsense from someone that has never seen the periodic table of elements.

See if you can spot a trend with what cars are most often discussed on oil forums for daily use. I'll give you a hint, they're mostly direct injection engines. A lot of people still expect DI engines to behave like port injected engines and oil seems to be the first place they gravitate toward.
any chance to be able to do this? particularly your track day FE results. thanks!
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      02-10-2021, 12:38 AM   #29
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My $0.02:
You guys are focused on wrong things. I have seen here talk about oxidation, rust etc. Truth is that BMW LL approvals have extremely stringent oxidation requirements (and when I say extremely, it is impossible to emphasize it). That is bcs. emphasis is on OCI. Latest update of BMW LL approvals (2018) increased oxidation requirements and that increase eliminated most 0W oils such as Castrol, Mobil1 etc. Usual suspects.
However, we are here talking track, and grade actually should be secondary thing. The most important thing on the track and any performance vehicle is High-Temperature/High-Shear (HTHS). HTHS is resistance of oil to temporary or permanent loss of viscosity at 150c. Higher HTHS, better resistance. BMW TPT 0W30 has HTHS of 3.1. That is HTHS of oil that is made for one purpose: fuel efficiency. Ideally, on track in an engine like S55 one wants HTHS of 3.7 and up to 4.5. 3.7 is Castrol 0W40, Valvoline European Vehicle 5W40. 4.5 is Redline 5W40. Now, some oils have high KV100 (kinematic viscosity at 100c) but not that robust HTHS. That tells us that oil is probably Group III base stock. For example, previous version of Castrol Edge 5W40 had KV100 14.2, HTHS 3.7. At the same time Edge 0W40 had KV100 13.1 and HTHS 3.7. So, thinner oil, but same HTHS, compliments of Group IV base stocks. Or, Motul 5W40 300V (racing oil) has KV100 13.5 and HTHS 4. You get picture where I am going.
So on track, considering temperatures, W40 is always better option than W30 bcs. HTHS. IMO, those who track a lot should go Motul 5W40 Sport, or 300V. It is oil, it is lifeblood of an engine! I have seen on track people destroying rod bearings bcs. oil could not handle temperature. Oil is cheap, engine is not.
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      02-10-2021, 01:31 AM   #30
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Quote:
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Remember BITOG is a forum of people that discuss the intricacies of lubrication.
I'm ashamed to admit that this made me laugh. The child in me is truly alive and well
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      02-11-2021, 07:16 PM   #31
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edycol do you know the stats on Motul Specific 5w30 LL-01 FE?
What's your opinion of this stuff? I have a bunch stocked, and change at 5K for daily driving and weekend 60-130 races.

Same stats and opinion question about RedLine 5W40. I heard this is recommended when using bigger turbos, and my GCs will arrive soon.
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      02-14-2021, 11:11 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
edycol do you know the stats on Motul Specific 5w30 LL-01 FE?
What's your opinion of this stuff? I have a bunch stocked, and change at 5K for daily driving and weekend 60-130 races.

Same stats and opinion question about RedLine 5W40. I heard this is recommended when using bigger turbos, and my GCs will arrive soon.
Motul LL01FE will be in rank of ACEA A5. I would not say it is any better or worse than TPT. TPT in fact is really good oil, and unlike what some people say, it is specifically made for BMW (it is not repackaged Pennzoil/Shell). But, IMO, HTHS of around 3 is really low for these vehicles. I personally would run LL01FE only if I was doing trips where I cannot reach operating oil temperature, so short trips.
Redline is completely different animal and one has to be careful about Redline. It is exceptional oil for track use. It has 70-80% Ester base stock. It is obvious as HTHS is around 4.5, but KV100 is 15.4. For example, Mobil1 achieves that HTHS in their 15W50 oil with KV100 18. What does that mean? It means lower quality base stock, a lot of viscosity modifiers, polymers etc.
But, there is downside to Redline, same like to Motul 300V. Esters are oxidizing fast. So, running those oils longer than 3k or 5k (I would definitely do UOA at 3k first) will push TAN too far. When TAN passes remaining TBN that is when sludge can happen. If you run Redline, or Motul 300V, do 3k UOA and see where you are with TBN and TAN. If TAN passes TBN or it is very close, probably 3K is limit (But, UOA I have seen in some Corvette's 5K is probably safe limit).
Another good oil is Motul 5W40 SPort. It has less Esters and more PAO to control oxidation. So think about that oil too as there are advantages to oils that are more “street” like. If you drive your car to daycare (like I do) 5 days a week, then you hit track once a week or month, I would go definitely something like Motul Sport and not 300V. Redline might be good option too. I like Redline bcs. all their performance series has same base stock. So if you run 5W40 in summer, running 5W30 in winter wouldn’t mix different additives and base stocks. There is also case to be made for Motul 5W40 300V, though it is basically racing oil. KV100 is 13.5 while HTHS is 4. That means less parasitic drag in engine compared to Redline=better engine performance.
So your choice, but whatever you choose of these oils for track, you definitely should not worry about oil performance.

Edit: I just notice you are saying "races." DO you race or just track to blow off some steam?

Last edited by edycol; 02-15-2021 at 10:35 AM..
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      02-15-2021, 12:27 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
edycol do you know the stats on Motul Specific 5w30 LL-01 FE?
What's your opinion of this stuff? I have a bunch stocked, and change at 5K for daily driving and weekend 60-130 races.

Same stats and opinion question about RedLine 5W40. I heard this is recommended when using bigger turbos, and my GCs will arrive soon.
Motul LL01FE will be in rank of ACEA A5. I would not say it is any better or worse than TPT. TPT in fact is really good oil, and unlike what some people say, it is specifically made for BMW (it is not repackaged Pennzoil/Shell). But, IMO, HTHS of around 3 is really low for these vehicles. I personally would run LL01FE only if I was doing trips where I cannot reach operating oil temperature, so short trips.
Redline is completely different animal and one has to be careful about Redline. It is exceptional oil for track use. It has 70-80% Ester base stock. It is obvious as HTHS is around 4.5, but KV100 is 15.4. For example, Mobil1 achieves that HTHS in their 15W50 oil with KV100 18. What does that mean? It means lower quality base stock, a lot of viscosity modifiers, polymers etc.
But, there is downside to Redline, same like to Motul 300V. Esters are oxidizing fast. So, running those oils longer than 3k or 5k (I would definitely do UOA at 3k first) will push TAN too far. When TAN passes remaining TBN that is when sludge can happen. If you run Redline, or Motul 300V, do 3k UOA and see where you are with TBN and TAN. If TAN passes TBN or it is very close, probably 3K is limit (But, UOA I have seen in some Corvette's 5K is probably safe limit).
Another good oil is Motul 5W40 SPort. It has less Esters and more PAO to control oxidation. So think about that oil too as there are advantages to oils that are more "street" like. If you drive your car to daycare (like I do) 5 days a week, then you hit track once a week or month, I would go definitely something like Motul Sport and not 300V. Redline might be good option too. I like Redline bcs. all their performance series has same base stock. So if you run 5W40 in summer, running 5W30 in winter wouldn't mix different additives and base stocks. There is also case to be made for Motul 5W40 300V, though it is basically racing oil. KV100 is 13.5 while HTHS is 4. That means less parasitic drag in engine compared to Redline=better engine performance.
So your choice, but whatever you choose of these oils for track, you definitely should not worry about oil performance.
Motul xcess 5w40 or liqui moly leichtlauf 5w40 for a daily / light track use?
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      02-15-2021, 08:19 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rborane View Post
Motul xcess 5w40 or liqui moly leichtlauf 5w40 for a daily / light track use?
Motul has new Gen2 line up. It is Group III based but it “packs the punch.” However, unless you are going for LL01, I would go their 5W40 Sport line up for street/track use.
I am no fan of Liqui Moly. IMO, mediocre oils that are overhyped bcs. Made in Germany. I worked in “previous “ life on oil testing and they were always a lot of talk and not much to deliver. Literally all Euro oils available in Wal Mart are of better performance.

Last edited by edycol; 02-15-2021 at 08:25 AM..
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      02-15-2021, 06:55 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Edit: I just notice you are saying "races." DO you race or just track to blow off some steam?
No track at all. Just hard daily driver right now with two or four 60-130 highway races each weekend of good weather. A sprint can rev me to 7200 because I need to hold 4th gear.

What would you use for this hard street use to change at 5K mile intervals?
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      02-15-2021, 07:06 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
No track at all. Just hard daily driver right now with two or four 60-130 highway races each weekend of good weather. A sprint can rev me to 7200 because I need to hold 4th gear.

What would you use for this hard street use to change at 5K mile intervals?
That is not hard on engine. Few days ago I retrofitted oil cooler from E90 335 to my N52 for track use. Since it was cold, I had to run high rpms for a long time in order to check whether it is working properly. I hold rpms at 6,500 for 20min in second gear on local hwy.
I would stick in that case to regular oils due to detergent and anti-oxidation properties. You can run Castrol Edge 0W40 if out of warranty. If still under warranty, Motul X-Cess 5W40 Gen2 is good. Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 is very good oil (usually on sale in local Advance Auto Parts for $33 for 5qt). Another oil that people neglect, but it is very good is Valvoline 5W40 European Vehicle. IMO all better than anything Liqiu Moly.
If you get tempted with Mobil1 0W40, do not get it. It is exceptional oil, but I would not use it in DI engine due to very high sulfated ash level, which is culprit behind CBU.
When you do occasionally some drag races or track, you want to look for oil that has Porsche A40 approval bcs. it simulates 5hrs of Nurburgring run:
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      02-15-2021, 07:54 PM   #37
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edycol
Thank you Sir!
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      02-23-2021, 05:54 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
That is not hard on engine. Few days ago I retrofitted oil cooler from E90 335 to my N52 for track use. Since it was cold, I had to run high rpms for a long time in order to check whether it is working properly. I hold rpms at 6,500 for 20min in second gear on local hwy.
I would stick in that case to regular oils due to detergent and anti-oxidation properties. You can run Castrol Edge 0W40 if out of warranty. If still under warranty, Motul X-Cess 5W40 Gen2 is good. Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 is very good oil (usually on sale in local Advance Auto Parts for $33 for 5qt). Another oil that people neglect, but it is very good is Valvoline 5W40 European Vehicle. IMO all better than anything Liqiu Moly.
If you get tempted with Mobil1 0W40, do not get it. It is exceptional oil, but I would not use it in DI engine due to very high sulfated ash level, which is culprit behind CBU.
When you do occasionally some drag races or track, you want to look for oil that has Porsche A40 approval bcs. it simulates 5hrs of Nurburgring run:

There is a guy on Bitog that goes by edyvw, would that be you? You post things that seem similar to what edyvw posts on bitog. If so, I damn well appreciate the way your mind works when it comes to oil.

If you are the same guy, I am glad you post about oil here as well. So many people blindly follow friends recommendations / brands / weights of oil that I just defer them to bitog search engine.

I usually just find a good LL01 oil and call it a day (last 15 years have all been Castrol / Mobil 1 0w40 on my BMWs with influence by your posts)

Last year I picked up Ravenol 0w40 SSL when it was still LL01 approved but now it also isn't LL01 approved and just recommended. Will still use up what I have and go try Motul 5w40 X-cess Gen 2 LL01. 0w40 LL-01 seems to be a disappearing trend - not impressed with Liquimoly / Castrol 5w40 LL-01 oils vs the Castrol 0w30/40s. Only gripe about LL01 are the full saps causing more carbon buildup.

Guess right now OE BMW TPT 5w30 - seems to fit the bill as a good oil all around for the F8X.

Last edited by JamesGames; 02-23-2021 at 06:02 PM..
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      02-23-2021, 06:04 PM   #39
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Every one of the oils mentioned in this thread will grenade your engine within 1000 miles
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      02-23-2021, 10:52 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGames View Post
There is a guy on Bitog that goes by edyvw, would that be you? You post things that seem similar to what edyvw posts on bitog. If so, I damn well appreciate the way your mind works when it comes to oil.

If you are the same guy, I am glad you post about oil here as well. So many people blindly follow friends recommendations / brands / weights of oil that I just defer them to bitog search engine.

I usually just find a good LL01 oil and call it a day (last 15 years have all been Castrol / Mobil 1 0w40 on my BMWs with influence by your posts)

Last year I picked up Ravenol 0w40 SSL when it was still LL01 approved but now it also isn't LL01 approved and just recommended. Will still use up what I have and go try Motul 5w40 X-cess Gen 2 LL01. 0w40 LL-01 seems to be a disappearing trend - not impressed with Liquimoly / Castrol 5w40 LL-01 oils vs the Castrol 0w30/40s. Only gripe about LL01 are the full saps causing more carbon buildup.

Guess right now OE BMW TPT 5w30 - seems to fit the bill as a good oil all around for the F8X.
LOL, yeah I am the same guy.
So, thing about 0W and LL01. All LL approvals went through major update in 2018. BMW increased oxidation requirement from ridiculous to extremely ridiculous. 0W30 and 0W40 oils that have HTHS above 3.5 are usually having such combination of base stocks that tends to produce bit higher oxidation. That is where my thinking goes when to reason why 0W30 and 0W40 lost LL01 and LL04.
Motul X-Cess Gen2 is serious stuff. Low KV100 and very good HTHS are indication of high quality base stocks.
As for BMW TPT 5W30, it is excellent stuff. I would use something thick on track, but on street it is superb stuff. HTHS of 3.6 is on par with Mobil1 0W40 HTHS.
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      02-23-2021, 11:57 PM   #41
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Wait so does water-based, silicone-based, or oil-based lube have the best HTHS?
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      02-24-2021, 12:22 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGames View Post
There is a guy on Bitog that goes by edyvw, would that be you? You post things that seem similar to what edyvw posts on bitog. If so, I damn well appreciate the way your mind works when it comes to oil.

If you are the same guy, I am glad you post about oil here as well. So many people blindly follow friends recommendations / brands / weights of oil that I just defer them to bitog search engine.

I usually just find a good LL01 oil and call it a day (last 15 years have all been Castrol / Mobil 1 0w40 on my BMWs with influence by your posts)

Last year I picked up Ravenol 0w40 SSL when it was still LL01 approved but now it also isn't LL01 approved and just recommended. Will still use up what I have and go try Motul 5w40 X-cess Gen 2 LL01. 0w40 LL-01 seems to be a disappearing trend - not impressed with Liquimoly / Castrol 5w40 LL-01 oils vs the Castrol 0w30/40s. Only gripe about LL01 are the full saps causing more carbon buildup.

Guess right now OE BMW TPT 5w30 - seems to fit the bill as a good oil all around for the F8X.
LOL, yeah I am the same guy.
So, thing about 0W and LL01. All LL approvals went through major update in 2018. BMW increased oxidation requirement from ridiculous to extremely ridiculous. 0W30 and 0W40 oils that have HTHS above 3.5 are usually having such combination of base stocks that tends to produce bit higher oxidation. That is where my thinking goes when to reason why 0W30 and 0W40 lost LL01 and LL04.
Motul X-Cess Gen2 is serious stuff. Low KV100 and very good HTHS are indication of high quality base stocks.
As for BMW TPT 5W30, it is excellent stuff. I would use something thick on track, but on street it is superb stuff. HTHS of 3.6 is on par with Mobil1 0W40 HTHS.
Out of:

Motul Xcess Gen 2 5W40
Liqui Moly Leightlauf 5W40
Pennzoil European 5w40

Which would you go with?
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TopJimmy5392.50
      02-24-2021, 07:51 AM   #43
edycol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rborane View Post
Out of:

Motul Xcess Gen 2 5W40
Liqui Moly Leightlauf 5W40
Pennzoil European 5w40

Which would you go with?
Motul
Pennzoil
Liqui Moly

In that order.
I would put several other oils ahead of Liqui Moly.
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TopJimmy5392.50
irunalot1515.50
      02-26-2021, 10:35 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rborane View Post
Out of:

Motul Xcess Gen 2 5W40
Liqui Moly Leightlauf 5W40
Pennzoil European 5w40

Which would you go with?
Motul
Pennzoil
Liqui Moly

In that order.
I would put several other oils ahead of Liqui Moly.
Sport vs Xcess for street? Sport correct?
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