CSF intercooler vs EOS vs Forge

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteM2

Do you think this data is lies?

https://www.awe-tuning.com/bmw-f8x-coldfront

Anyone can make claims, looking for proof.

[M2C_PLUS]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Anyone can make claims, looking for proof.

So you are calling the data readings taken by AWE false!! Wow....But, I guess it is like your 20hrs to do a 11hr job? :

[aBMWfan]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteM2

So you are calling the data readings taken by AWE false!! Wow....But, I guess it is like your 20hrs to do a 11hr job? :

Looking at the data, it looks like the exchanger looses 4hp on first run, but it retains higher numbers after repeated runs. It also says the data was direct collection and not altered in any way. The intake temperatures were consistently lower with the exchanger at all speeds. Not sure what these number mean or why they’re important, but it’s something. Does CSF use data like this, to support their product?

[M2C_PLUS]

Originally Posted by aBMWfan

Looking at the data, it looks like the exchanger looses 4hp on first run, but it retains higher numbers after repeated runs. It also says the data was direct collection and not altered in any way. The the temperatures were consistently lower with the exchanger at all speeds. Does CSF use data like this, to support their product?

No idea mate, I think CSF have been asked 100's of times but never respond to a direct question about any improvement over stock data. They are quite happy to tell us how many they sell though :

Im going to fit an uprated heat exchanger first and get my tuner to collect data before and after. I will report back.

[aBMWfan]

[/QUOTE] No idea mate, I think CSF have been asked 100's of times but never respond to a direct question about any improvement over stock data. They are quite happy to tell us how many they sell though :

Im going to fit an uprated heat exchanger first and get my tuner to collect data before and after. I will report back. [/QUOTE]

Are you going with AWE? Or another brand?

[M2C_PLUS]

No idea mate, I think CSF have been asked 100's of times but never respond to a direct question about any improvement over stock data. They are quite happy to tell us how many they sell though :

Im going to fit an uprated heat exchanger first and get my tuner to collect data before and after. I will report back. [/QUOTE]

Are you going with AWE? Or another brand?[/QUOTE]


AWE.

[CSF Cooling]

When it comes to performance of the front mount heat exchanger, you can let the facts of the CSF vs. the competition help you decide on which item to go with.

[Mandi90TT]

I see...still no actual data.

[G4BR13L]

I doubt that the front mounted CSF heat exchanger (not cooler) improves performance due to the travel distance of the intake charge. Proof me wrong CSF.

[nioh_lbbm2]

Originally Posted by Dave 90TT

I see...still no actual data.

A lot of marketing but no testing numbers to back up the claims even on their marketing chart...hmm

[qmp]

Originally Posted by G4BR13L

I doubt that the front mounted CSF cooler improves performance due to the travel distance of the intake charge. Proof me wrong CSF.

What does the "travel distance of the intake charge" have to do with the front cooler? I assume you are referring to the front heat exchanger

[G4BR13L]

Originally Posted by qmp

What does the "travel distance of the intake charge" have to do with the front cooler? I assume you are referring to the front heat exchanger

Yes I stand corrected.

[Mandi90TT]

Originally Posted by G4BR13L

Yes I stand corrected.

That's alright, it's no worse than the downright refusal to provide actual data by CSF.

[nioh_lbbm2]

Originally Posted by Railgun

You see that in the mirror polish I bet.

Ah so that's where the phrase "smoke and mirrors" comes from

[M2C_PLUS]

Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2

Ah so that's where the phrase "smoke and mirrors" comes from

:

[M2C_PLUS]

Originally Posted by CSF Cooling

When it comes to performance of the front mount heat exchanger, you can let the facts of the CSF vs. the competition help you decide on which item to go with.

Ah so you are reading this thread. Welcome!

So what was the data you found during your R&D over a stock Chargecooler?

[Mandi90TT]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteM2

Ah so you are reading this thread. Welcome!

So what was the data you found during your R&D over a stock Chargecooler?

Good luck with that. CSF is pretty much a laughingstock at this point.

[behindthen0thing]

how about all the failed radiators that CSF has on the Z/G platform? Nothing but leaks and blown CSF radiators over there.

[domino_z]

Originally Posted by qmp

What does the "travel distance of the intake charge" have to do with the front cooler? I assume you are referring to the front heat exchanger

A stretch but he may be referring to pressure loss across a larger core - which is a very real issue when fitting too large of a cooler on a turbo car (might even explain why JP lost power on his car after adding both coolers)

When building my r35 gtr, this was a known issue which the aftermarket understood by offering various larger size options

With no fancy water to water cooling though on that platform, the larger coolers actually worked once you swapped out the turbos

[G4BR13L]

I do believe that the CSF solution manages to keep the temps low but at some point due to pressure loss you will not get more oxygen into the combustion chamber. I think this is why CSF does not release data because there is no improvement over the stock solution.

I don’t always know how to express or explain things in English because I was trained in automechanics in Dutch and I sometimes try to translate to the English terminology online.

[coldfish]

Originally Posted by G4BR13L

I do believe that the CSF solution manages to keep the temps low but at some point due to pressure loss you will not get more oxygen into the combustion chamber. I think this is why CSF does not release data because there is no improvement over the stock solution.

I don’t always know how to express or explain things in English because I was trained in automechanics in Dutch and I sometimes try to translate to the English terminology online.

I think JP performance tested CSF cooling kit on dyno and it actually lost power a bit.

[G4BR13L]

One of the ways with this car to get more oxygen into the intake without loosing pressure was what BMW developed together with Bosch for the GTS: water injection. Thanks to lowering temp the turbo boost pressure could even be increased.

Therefore the CSF solution by itself is not enough as I believe it leads to a lower boost pressure and that is what they saw. Cold air means more dense air and more oxygen but boost pressure is also important so at some point you decrease the temp but if you loose boost pressure it can lead to less oxygen and thus less torque.

The engineers at BMW came up with a very good stock IC and it will be hard to beat with aftermarket components.