Excessive metal flake in oil, BMWNA says it's "normal"

[cliffordm4]

TL;DR: There's a ton of copper metal particulate in my S55's oil. The car is stock (never tuned) and under warranty. I brought it to my local dealer for another oil change, they noted the excessive amount of metal and started a PUMA case. BMW claimed metal flake in the oil is "normal" for M cars.

I recently bought a 2018 M4 ZCP 6MT. Absolutely love the car -- Imola red, Carbonstructure interior, and plenty of M Performance goodies. What's not to love?

Approximately 5000 miles after I bought the car I did an oil change (DIY) since it had been serviced just prior to my purchase and I religiously do 5k OCI. I observed a good amount of copper metal flake in the oil when draining it.

Naturally, knowing that the only component of the S55 that contains copper is the connecting rod bearings, I wanted to get the ball rolling on further diagnosis and either bearing or (ideally, and realistically the only complete solution) entire engine replacement.

After 5000 miles, I took the car to my local dealer for an oil change. They too saw the metal in the oil and started a PUMA case with BMW. I also noted a light bottom end tick (not knock, but the motor doesn't sound right). BMW responded by saying both conditions were normal, which is completely inaccurate as any enthusiast would know.

Another 5000 miles later, I did another DIY oil change to document the results (with the intention of bringing it back to the dealer for the next change). The amount of metal was astonishing. One picture is attached directly to this most; more are in the letter, along with a video.

To defeat BMW's baseless argument that metal in the oil is a "normal" running condition and hopefully get somewhere under warranty, I conducted a thorough amount of research on the S55 and sent to BMWNA a lengthy letter outlining my case and requesting further action. The letter and attachments are attached in case in may be of use to anyone in a similar situation.

Any thoughts?

[TopJimmy]

What's your total mileage?

***Do you have a stock oil filter cap?
The valve at the top of the plastic birdcage may be broken and all your oil may be bypassing the oil filter… If yes a new cap and cap tool is only about $75.

I suggest Blackstone and to send in a sample every 1000 miles. It's easy to remove a hex-cap from the oil thermostat and suck out the 3oz sample. For about $100 you can get their ez hand pump and 2 samples run through the lab. Just do the basic test which checks for metals and contaminant. No need for the extra $10 TAN/TBN check in your case…that checks if your additives are good/depleted and might run your oil longer between changes. Their test kits and postage are free.

[cliffordm4]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

What's your total mileage?

***Do you have a stock oil filter cap?
The valve at the top of the plastic birdcage may be broken and all your oil may be bypassing the oil filter… If yes a new cap and cap tool is only about $75.

I suggest Blackstone and to send in a sample every 1000 miles. It's easy to remove a hex-cap from the oil thermostat and suck out the 3oz sample. For about $100 you can get their ez hand pump and 2 samples run through the lab. Just do the basic test which checks for metals and contaminant. No need for the extra $10 TAN/TBN check in your case…that checks if your additives are good/depleted and might run your oil longer between changes. Their test kits and postage are free.

I’m just under 29k miles. Yes on stock oil filter cap — I’ll check the valve, but even if it were broken, there shouldn’t be that much metal in the oil regardless.

I sent a sample into Blackstone along with pictures. They said the metal as pictured is too large for their analysis (I.e. they only look at the microscopic level). Everything checked out on the report, but they didn’t want to comment on the visible metal.

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by cornfedSUV

I’m just under 29k miles. Yes on stock oil filter cap — I’ll check the valve, but even if it were broken, there shouldn’t be that much metal in the oil regardless.

I sent a sample into Blackstone along with pictures. They said the metal as pictured is too large for their analysis (I.e. they only look at the microscopic level). Everything checked out on the report, but they didn’t want to comment on the visible metal.

Damn. I figure the filter should catch all that and would really examine the birdcage inside the filter, specifically to pop out the cage and inspect the OBV at the top of the cap assembly. I heard our motors do wear metals quite a bit but sheeeeeeeit that looks like quite a lot of flakes.

[NYG]

You're adding stress by assuming that it's copper. It may look like copper but there's a good chance it isn't. How confident are you that none of that sample was contaminated? Crap that may have been on the bottom of the oil pan or lodged around the plug/washer? Those oil pans strip threads really easily - happened to me. It could have been tapped/threaded for a larger plug? I'm not doubting you or saying that what you see is normal but we all have a tendency of ignoring really big/important details when we're worried. Sometimes a second opinion can reveal something that was ignored.

[Groganrocket]

I just went and checked mine and it looks just like yours, but M3 only has 5200 miles.

[cliffordm4]

Originally Posted by NYG

You're adding stress by assuming that it's copper. It may look like copper but there's a good chance it isn't. How confident are you that none of that sample was contaminated? Crap that may have been on the bottom of the oil pan or lodged around the plug/washer? Those oil pans strip threads really easily - happened to me. It could have been tapped/threaded for a larger plug? I'm not doubting you or saying that what you see is normal but we all have a tendency of ignoring really big/important details when we're worried. Sometimes a second opinion can reveal something that was ignored.

I have the stock drain bolt size. My confidence the oil hasn’t been contaminated is that this level of metal has stayed consistent / increased over three oil changes. Each time I used a clean (or for the last change), brand new drain pan.

If the issue went away after one oil change I wouldn’t be too worried.

[Groganrocket]

Originally Posted by cornfedSUV

TL;DR: There's a ton of copper metal particulate in my S55's oil. The car is stock (never tuned) and under warranty. I brought it to my local dealer for another oil change, they noted the excessive amount of metal and started a PUMA case. BMW claimed metal flake in the oil is "normal" for M cars.

I recently bought a 2018 M4 ZCP 6MT. Absolutely love the car -- Imola red, Carbonstructure interior, and plenty of M Performance goodies. What's not to love?

Approximately 5000 miles after I bought the car I did an oil change (DIY) since it had been serviced just prior to my purchase and I religiously do 5k OCI. I observed a good amount of copper metal flake in the oil when draining it.

Naturally, knowing that the only component of the S55 that contains copper is the connecting rod bearings, I wanted to get the ball rolling on further diagnosis and either bearing or (ideally, and realistically the only complete solution) entire engine replacement.

After 5000 miles, I took the car to my local dealer for an oil change. They too saw the metal in the oil and started a PUMA case with BMW. I also noted a light bottom end tick (not knock, but the motor doesn't sound right). BMW responded by saying both conditions were normal, which is completely inaccurate as any enthusiast would know.

Another 5000 miles later, I did another DIY oil change to document the results (with the intention of bringing it back to the dealer for the next change). The amount of metal was astonishing. One picture is attached directly to this most; more are in the letter, along with a video.

To defeat BMW's baseless argument that metal in the oil is a "normal" running condition and hopefully get somewhere under warranty, I conducted a thorough amount of research on the S55 and sent to BMWNA a lengthy letter outlining my case and requesting further action. The letter and attachments are attached in case in may be of use to anyone in a similar situation.

Any thoughts?

Just showed this to a bmw tech and he said it looks normal.

[TopJimmy]

"…and he said it looks normal."

Yeesh!
I'd still worry, but if Blackstone said it's not an issue it would help my anxiety a little. I'd cut my OCI in half to keep flakes minimized.

(eureka moment) Just maybe…
Do you do a lot of stop and go, where AutoStart shuts off the engine and restarts? I've wondered if the repeated starts with oil not under pressure might cause it.

[Groganrocket]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

"…and he said it looks normal."

Yeesh!
I'd still worry, but if Blackstone said it's not an issue it would help my anxiety a little. I'd cut my OCI in half to keep flakes minimized.

(eureka moment) Just maybe…
Do you do a lot of stop and go, where AutoStart shuts off the engine and restarts? I've wondered if the repeated starts with oil not under pressure might cause it.

I do mostly city driving but my car only has 5k and when the oil was changed before it had the same glitter looking substance, so I just marked it up as break in metals. I’m wonder if there are more people with this condition, but don’t know it because who really looks in the oil filter housing with a light lol like we do. Maybe it is normal (hopefully) more people should check and chime in.

[cliffordm4]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

"…and he said it looks normal."

Yeesh!
I'd still worry, but if Blackstone said it's not an issue it would help my anxiety a little. I'd cut my OCI in half to keep flakes minimized.

(eureka moment) Just maybe…
Do you do a lot of stop and go, where AutoStart shuts off the engine and restarts? I've wondered if the repeated starts with oil not under pressure might cause it.

Nope, I never have Auto Start/Stop on.

[cliffordm4]

Originally Posted by Groganrocket

Just showed this to a bmw tech and he said it looks normal.

Even if it’s common on the S55, I struggle to understand how this is “normal.”

That metal sure looks like copper to me (gold/bronze colored vs silver-colored) and the ONLY component in the S55 that contains a significant amount of copper is the rod bearings. More crucially, the copper substrate is underneath the running layer on the bearings, which should not be worn away with regular operation, especially not by 30k miles. I’d bet money that if I pulled the pan and took off a rod cap, the bearing would be worn through the running layer.

I’ve just never had or worked on a motor that has ever produced metal like this (even an S58, which uses the same bearings), save for one that spun a bearing @ 150k miles.

[Groganrocket]

Originally Posted by cornfedSUV

Even if it’s common on the S55, I struggle to understand how this is “normal.”

That metal sure looks like copper to me (gold/bronze colored vs silver-colored) and the ONLY component in the S55 that contains a significant amount of copper is the rod bearings. More crucially, the copper substrate is underneath the running layer on the bearings, which should not be worn away with regular operation, especially not by 30k miles. I’d bet money that if I pulled the pan and took off a rod cap, the bearing would be worn through the running layer.

I’ve just never had or worked on a motor that has ever produced metal like this (even an S58, which uses the same bearings), save for one that spun a bearing @ 150k miles.

I’m wondering if it looks copperish because of the color of the oil, so maybe it’s something else like timing chin or something not important.

[omega2733]

Originally Posted by Groganrocket

I just went and checked mine and it looks just like yours, but M3 only has 5200 miles.

Wow, I'm up to 40k miles now, need to check mine, I'm 1.5k miles from my next OCI. These pictures including yours has me worried now!

Never seen a motor produce as much contaminants as this, ever. Including my very dirty, DI inline 4 turbo which deals with tons of fuel dilution.

[Groganrocket]

Originally Posted by omega2733

Wow, I'm up to 40k miles now, need to check mine, I'm 1.5k miles from my next OCI. These pictures including yours has me worried now!

Never seen a motor produce as much contaminants as this, ever. Including my very dirty, DI inline 4 turbo which deals with tons of fuel dilution.

I hope it's nothing fingers crossed, let us know how yours looks. I'm really curious.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by cornfedSUV

Even if it’s common on the S55, I struggle to understand how this is “normal.”

That metal sure looks like copper to me (gold/bronze colored vs silver-colored) and the ONLY component in the S55 that contains a significant amount of copper is the rod bearings. More crucially, the copper substrate is underneath the running layer on the bearings, which should not be worn away with regular operation, especially not by 30k miles. I’d bet money that if I pulled the pan and took off a rod cap, the bearing would be worn through the running layer.

I’ve just never had or worked on a motor that has ever produced metal like this (even an S58, which uses the same bearings), save for one that spun a bearing @ 150k miles.

I've seen this issue a few times and a couple of times people have decided to replace their bearings just to be sure to find out that their bearings are completely fine. I'm 99% sure I've read this more than a few times on this forum.

I'm a structural eng. who specializes in steel and metal alloys so trust me when I say that even if it looks like copper, it's really unlikely that it is. Although, I can't disqualify it completely it's just really the last thing I would accept. Aluminum doesn't really experience color changes from heat but steel definitely does. The oil and its' additives can also give that illusion even to aluminum. I've seen some crap around the bolts that secure the baffle in the oil pan before too. Even if your engine was screwed up, you wouldn't see huge chunks unless something has failed.

If BMW says it's ok and a lot of people see this with Blackstone letting you know that all the particulates are ok then I don't think you should worry.

[Groganrocket]

Originally Posted by NYG

I've seen this issue a few times and a couple of times people have decided to replace their bearings just to be sure to find out that their bearings are completely fine. I'm 99% sure I've read this more than a few times on this forum.

I'm a structural eng. who specializes in steel and metal alloys so trust me when I say that even if it looks like copper, it's really unlikely that it is. Although, I can't disqualify it completely it's just really the last thing I would accept. Aluminum doesn't really experience color changes from heat but steel definitely does. The oil and its' additives can also give that illusion even to aluminum. I've seen some crap around the bolts that secure the baffle in the oil pan before too. Even if your engine was screwed up, you wouldn't see huge chunks unless something has failed.

If BMW says it's ok and a lot of people see this with Blackstone letting you know that all the particulates are ok then I don't think you should worry.

Thanks sounds good to me and makes me feel better about it, I think we are being a bit paranoid because my car run fine no knocking sounds, I think it’s the same with most s55 but people don’t really look.

[omega2733]

Ok, I didn't get to check the filter housing, I'll do that when it gets changed but I didn't notice any flakes at all in the oil on surfaces under my filler cap.

Obviously doesn't have as much surface area to see like the filter housing so I'll check that during my change. Damn the filler cap gets crusty though lol

[Groganrocket]

Originally Posted by omega2733

Ok, I didn't get to check the filter housing, I'll do that when it gets changed but I didn't notice any flakes at all in the oil on surfaces under my filler cap.

Obviously doesn't have as much surface area to see like the filter housing so I'll check that during my change. Damn the filler cap gets crusty though lol


Attachment 2663057

Attachment 2663058

Thanks for checking and Yeah my oil filter cap looks fine but I e gotten ocd now and have check the oil filter housing 3 times lol. I’m starting to think it’s probably nothing more so than something bad.

[omega2733]

Originally Posted by Groganrocket

Thanks for checking and Yeah my oil filter cap looks fine but I e gotten ocd now and have check the oil filter housing 3 times lol. I’m starting to think it’s probably nothing more so than something bad.

You're still early in your engine's life, so I wouldn't worry much and expect to see some metal with wear-in. It should become less with time or something is still wearing excessively (regardless if it's an S55/N54 thing). At 40k miles I wouldn't expect to see anything like that for any motor.

You should get out and drive your F80 more! I've put a hell of a lot of miles on those wheels I bought from you, let me know when you're down for a spirited drive one weekend!

[Groganrocket]

Originally Posted by omega2733

You're still early in your engine's life, so I wouldn't worry much and expect to see some metal with wear-in. It should become less with time or something is still wearing excessively (regardless if it's an S55/N54 thing). At 40k miles I wouldn't expect to see anything like that for any motor.

You should get out and drive your F80 more! I've put a hell of a lot of miles on those wheels I bought from you, let me know when you're down for a spirited drive one weekend!

Yeah I plan on putting more miles but my driveway sucks, I have to get out 2 sets of ramps to get it out of the garage lol. Yeah let me know when you want to go for a ride, anytime on the weekends I’m pretty much free, Pm me.

[Info@mad-us.com]

Does look a little more than avg for this engine and miles. Curious to what bmws reply to you is.