Need some members advice on Methanol injection nozzle location.

[E92inSG]

just monitor your fuel trims in both banks. I've got a friend with dual nozzles in J-pipe but his fuel trims are a lot more even than mine. might be nozzle design and/or spray pressure as well

[M4Viper]

Originally Posted by johnnyredgtr

Here is a picture of my chargepipes with one pipe as boost and the other one for Meth

I'm running dual snow #4 nozzles with ER chargepipes, nozzles location is 8-10 inches away from pre intercooler comparing to yours.

Anyone with any insights on this?
Thank you

[E92inSG]

hmm. that seems quite far away. this is mine with BMS charge pipes:

[M4Viper]

My exact thought after seeing johnnyredgtr's post.
What are the pros and cons for Evolution to place the bungs in those specific locations?

I'm running 50/50 mainly for cooling.

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by rborane

Was that the ultimate cause of blowing the engine? What were the specifics? Is there cause to be concerned in running one snow performance #6 nozzle in the J-pipe?

Piston fragments scored the laser coating on the cylinder wall. The fragments also made its way through the intake runners on the cylinder head, thereby causing microcracks.

I believe this is mainly a concern for 1/4 mile drag racers, where the need to engage smokey burnout mode is necessary to heat up the tires at staging. Most people roll race, or do road course racing, so likely a rare condition for most.

I suppose one could disable meth trigger for 1st and 2nd gear to avoid this issue. What I experienced is similar to how most nitrous oxide explosions take place at the staging lane; see: https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...lane+explosion

Keep in mind I'm using 99% methanol content, which is extremely flammable.

[behindthen0thing]

Brutal

[papasmurf_m3]

Who makes dual meth bung J pipe?

[E92inSG]

Originally Posted by papasmurf_m3

Who makes dual meth bung J pipe?

mine is RK Tunes

[papasmurf_m3]

Originally Posted by E92inSG

mine is RK Tunes

Nice, is it dual meth bung?

[E92inSG]

Originally Posted by papasmurf_m3

Nice, is it dual meth bung?

Yes

[M2C_jondagger]

Originally Posted by blockdoc

I think you are overthinking this. You already have good charge pipes with Meth bungs in them. By FAR, the easiest an effective way to do this is to simply pipe your meth into each bung and be done with it.

My story,
As my build has increased in power via additions and ongoing work with F80Paul, I decided to add an E30/40 tune on top of the current methanol injection (100 percent meth via the charge pipes). Since I have crappy CA watered down gas, Paul told me we were basically getting all the power available from the base 91 octane source, and that I had to add another fuel source if I was looking for more power. While I had the intake manifold off (upgrading fuel lines and adding an inline ethanol sensor), I bought a VRSF J pipe with a bung and planned on adding a third nozzle there for the same reasons you describe.

While planning the nozzle sizes, I ended up driving down to ProMeth and speaking with their head technician. He basically talked me out of the "cold side" injection due to uneven distribution of meth to the cylinders. They have done a fair bit of testing and found unpredictable flow due to manifold design (more meth in the middle cylinders). The most efficient way to inject cold side is to do Port Injection, but that is a much more involved process and probably unnecessary unless you are looking for HUGE power.

What I DID do, was go up in nozzle size on the charge pipes (actually running dual CM 14s) based on recommendations from ProMeth and then acccounted for during the tuning process

In summary,
I'd stick with the charge pipes. Other than PI, that's what the vast majority of your S55 brethren have done with good results.

YMMV

Hey, what did you use for boost read for this setup. I'm going the same route but with snow performance stage 2.5 single or dual injection. Snow meth kit uses boost tap. Should I use an upgraded Jpipe for the boost tap? This will be post meth injection, doesn't sound safe to me... better to install boost tap pre-meth?

My proposed options:

1. Jpipe boost tap, 2 charge pipe #4 nozzles
2. Jpipe stock, 1 chargepipe boost tap, 1 charge pipe #4or5 nozzle
3. Jpipe #4 nozzle, 1 chargepipe boost tap, 1 charge pipe #4 nozzle

Obv, I want to avoid option 3 due to cylinder dispursement, so unlikely option. Also I'm doing full e85 stock turbo tune so maybe so much fueling isn't needed. #jordantuned

Lastly, is there any meth injection kit option that doesn't require a boost tap?

Thanks for the input

[ghost.f82]

Originally Posted by M2C_jondagger

Lastly, is there any meth injection kit option that doesn't require a boost tap?

I don't run a boost tap with my meth setup. I've got a Torqbyte controller, which is wired into the factory map sensor (as well as the rpm feed), allows for proper tuning of exactly when and how much meth comes in

[M2C_jondagger]

Originally Posted by ghost.f82

I don't run a boost tap with my meth setup. I've got a Torqbyte controller, which is wired into the factory map sensor (as well as the rpm feed), allows for proper tuning of exactly when and how much meth comes in

I like this option. Thanks. What brand did you use for the braided meth lines, pump, tank, fitting ect

[ghost.f82]

I used a mix of bits, but mostly prometh, along with a BMS Stealth tank. I use prometh check valves, as well as a solenoid mounted as close to the nozzle locations as possible.

Soon will be adding direct port, controlled by another solenoid (and map table in the torqbyte)

[MR RIZK]

Originally Posted by E92inSG

no i didn't consider this. my logic for the cause of uneven trims would be that the meth doesn't mix well with the charge air going into throttle body. If 2 nozzles at J-pipe lead to uneven trims, I would expect only 1 nozzle to be the same.

Also to have only one charge pipe spraying meth, likely means its going to go thru only one side of the charge cooler, and out the cold side, possibly also having the same effect.

anyway my tuner said he's seen the best results with placement at charge pipes (other than PI), so i'll follow that for now. slight increase in IAT can be negated by advancing timing from meth fueling. i think @f80paul has some experience here

I assume when u say trims you mean STFT. Do you have a log on the deviation when not spraying at all to see if similar to the delta when spraying in the charge pipes?

Also why is the IAT on the WMI Charge Cooler (cold side) graph sitting at 50C

[tomlong]

Performance Eurowerks sells a J-Pipe with THREE 1/8 NPT bungs

[mdma-zn]

Originally Posted by ghost.f82

I don't run a boost tap with my meth setup. I've got a Torqbyte controller, which is wired into the factory map sensor (as well as the rpm feed), allows for proper tuning of exactly when and how much meth comes in

Well done for getting the factory map sensor to work with your Torqbyte.
I was not happy with the accuracy of the boost readings this way and eventually used the Torqbyte provided 4 bar map sensor which was spot on with its measurements.

[ghost.f82]

Originally Posted by mdma-zn

Well done for getting the factory map sensor to work with your Torqbyte.
I was not happy with the accuracy of the boost readings this way and eventually used the Torqbyte provided 4 bar map sensor which was spot on with its measurements.

Did you calibrate it? Mine's spot on when compared to bootmod logs

[papasmurf_m3]

I'm currently running 2 nozzles with FTP charge pipes and 1 nozzle at j pipe. I welded a bung in one of the charge pipes pre nozzle for the boost sensor. Works great!

However, I plan to go further and upgrade to a pro meth direct port system and still keep 2 in charge pipes. Will be running Motiv or torquebyte for the controller.

[hellokitty]

Would tuning changes need to be made if using 100% distilled water with no meth? Would be great to have a simple cooling solution without having to retune and worry about uneven distribution of fueling since I would mount a single bung to the J pipe and spray 100% distilled water.

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Would tuning changes need to be made if using 100% distilled water with no meth? Would be great to have a simple cooling solution without having to retune and worry about uneven distribution of fueling since I would mount a single bung to the J pipe and spray 100% distilled water.

No changes needed. IATs will just be cooler and less timing pulled when hot.

One Snow #3 in your J with 50/50. That's what I'm working on right now…for cooling only, not a as power adder.

[tomlong]

Here's my setup:

Snow Stage 2.5
BMS 3-gallon tank
2 nozzles spraying into cold-side of charge cooler

Stock turbos + full e85 + EU5 injectors + bolt-ons
My setup designed for both additional fueling & lowering IATs and I only run 100% methanol (e.g. VP Fuels M1)

Tuning for optimal spray setup (using the VC50 controller supplied by the kit) I found that if I started to spray at 14psi then ramp up to full spray by 26psi to be the most ideal for my setup. Mainly because my stock turbos run out of air at 26psi.

For experimental control, I moved spray settings much earlier (8psi start & 14psi full) and the car literally bogged and went into limp mode. Moving full spray to 20psi sometimes bogged as well. I think primarily because my stock turbos are not moving enough air relatively to nozzle / injection size.

Today's ambient was 94F and when I got on it IATs were as low as 82F for me. I also find that the hotter the ambient temps, the better my results were if I started spraying just a little earlier. So for today, I moved start spray to 10psi and full spray by 20psi, to accommodate for the extra heat soak and turbo lag.

Hope this helps and apooogies for any spelling / grammatical errors.