New Tire Setup

[reubenb123]

Hi all,
i recently just got tuned on ethanol and pushing around 600 wheel. Tire tread is low so looking for a replacement anyways and was looking for a better tire setup given this extra horsepower. I live in CA and it rains a lot during the winters/spring and given this car is my daily was looking for advice on a good all season setup for this.

[TRman]

Yea, power without grip is a bummer. No true street tire is going to grip at that power level in lower gears. May want to try lower treadwear tires like AO52 or RE-71RS. From there, drag radials on the rear only like NT555RII should help if you are ok with there short lifespan.

[M3SQRD]

Are you still running oem wheels or do you have a wider set of aftermarket rims? 18” or 19”? You need an 11” wide rear to be able to run a 305 mm (possibly 315 depending on tread width and rim width requirements) rear tire. Michelin PSC2, Yoko A052, GY SC3, Falcon RT660 or Toyo R888R (good for straight line traction, not great for turning) will all provide improved grip but won’t last very long when having to constantly put 600 whp to the ground. Drag radials on the R is another option but they’ll have an even shorter life span if driven on the street

Running oem R wheels, the max tire you should run is a 285 mm. Wider will fit but won’t have proper sidewall support from the rims.

[DeTh]

Dont get cup 2's. I ran them when I was E30 OTS and they spun too much. I transitioned to NT05r (great traction, not good handling), and R888r is going to be my next tire (middle ground, less traction than NT05r but way better in the handling department) now that I am full E85 making around 600.

Not sure why M3SQRD is saying they arent good for turning, all of the tires he listed are track oriented tires with great handling performance.

You can run a 315/30 on a 19x10.5, a 305/35 on a 19x10, and a 295/30 on a 19x10. All seasons won't put the power that you're making down at all. You'll either need two sets (one summer, one all-season), or to compromise.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by DeTh

Dont get cup 2's. I ran them when I was E30 OTS and they spun too much. I transitioned to NT05r (great traction, not good handling), and R888r is going to be my next tire (middle ground, less traction than NT05r but way better in the handling department) now that I am full E85 making around 600.

Not sure why M3SQRD is saying they arent good for turning, all of the tires he listed are track oriented tires with great handling performance.

You can run a 315/30 on a 19x10.5, a 305/35 on a 19x10, and a 295/30 on a 19x10. All seasons won't put the power that you're making down at all. You'll either need two sets (one summer, one all-season), or to compromise.

The R888R is the WORST track tire for cornering. Extremely inconsistent grip even when up to temp. Ask this question in the track section and just wait for the responses. Also, a 315 tire on a 10.5” wide wheel is not a good combo because the wheel is too narrow to provide support for a 315. A 305 needs at least an 11” wide wheel. So 295 on 10.5”, 305 on 11.0”, 315 on 11.5”. Wide tires on narrow rims are bad combinations. Just because a wide tire may fit a narrow wheel doesn’t mean it’s a good combination. Also a wide tire on a narrow rim has less tread width than the same tire mounted on a wider rim. Ask this question in the track section as well. There are plenty of track test data available (videos and articles) that prove this. Here’s a couple:

https://www.thedrive.com/car-reviews...ctually-faster

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/ar...always-better/

[DeTh]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

The R888R is the WORST track tire for cornering. Extremely inconsistent grip even when up to temp. Ask this question in the track section and just wait for the responses. Also, a 315 tire on a 10.5” wide wheel is not a good combo because the wheel is too narrow to provide support for a 315. A 305 needs at least an 11” wide wheel. So 295 on 10.5”, 305 on 11.0”, 315 on 11.5”. Wide tires on narrow rims are bad combinations. Just because a wide tire may fit a narrow wheel doesn’t mean it’s a good combination. Also a wide tire on a narrow rim has less tread width than the same tire mounted on a wider rim. Ask this question in the track section as well. There are plenty of track test data available (videos and articles) that prove this. Here’s a couple:

https://www.thedrive.com/car-reviews...ctually-faster

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/ar...always-better/

I was interpreting your use of the word "turning" as referring to street driving, not necessarily track driving, where I would agree with you that the r888r is definitely not the most optimal track oriented tire of that list (but it is a track oriented tire). Nt05r is a tire that I would consider has bad turning characteristics. Taking on ramps and speed make me feel like Im driving with a flat tire.

But tire grip is always a compromise. In the world of street driving and putting down power, track tires like the cup 2 don't work nearly as well as something like the r888r or nt05r.

I agree that there's a difference in sectional tire width based on wheel width, and that you should run the optimal wheel width based on the tire manufacturers recommendation. However, we're then circling back to street power applications and the possibility that maybe someone already has a set of wheels and doesn't want to buy new ones. They have "effective ranges" for tire width for a reason, it's because you can run those tires.
If you're looking for straight line grip for 600 wheel, I would think that losing 10mm or so of tire tread would be proportionately worse to the overall traction abilities of the car (both straight line and laterally) that most people are capable of replicating with their daily.

Setting up a car for the track is a much more in-depth process than driving fast in a straight line (usually)

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by DeTh

I was interpreting your use of the word "turning" as referring to street driving, not necessarily track driving, where I would agree with you that the r888r is definitely not the most optimal track oriented tire of that list (but it is a track oriented tire). Nt05r is a tire that I would consider has bad turning characteristics. Taking on ramps and speed make me feel like Im driving with a flat tire.

But tire grip is always a compromise. In the world of street driving and putting down power, track tires like the cup 2 don't work nearly as well as something like the r888r or nt05r.

I agree that there's a difference in sectional tire width based on wheel width, and that you should run the optimal wheel width based on the tire manufacturers recommendation. However, we're then circling back to street power applications and the possibility that maybe someone already has a set of wheels and doesn't want to buy new ones. They have "effective ranges" for tire width for a reason, it's because you can run those tires.
If you're looking for straight line grip for 600 wheel, I would think that losing 10mm or so of tire tread would be proportionately worse to the overall traction abilities of the car (both straight line and laterally) that most people are capable of replicating with their daily.

Setting up a car for the track is a much more in-depth process than driving fast in a straight line (usually)

Even if you’re using a wheel in the recommended width range, the wheel width still may not provide sufficient support and the outer tread blocks will not properly contact the road surface. A 295 on a 10” wheel has zero support from the wheel.

[DeTh]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Even if you’re using a wheel in the recommended width range, the wheel width still may not provide sufficient support and the outer tread blocks will not properly contact the road surface. A 295 on a 10” wheel has zero support from the wheel.

Based on what you're saying, wouldn't that cause uneven tread wear? I've had no problems with tread wear running the 295/30 on a 19x10, nor my 305/35.

If you also look up the 295/30 Hoosier A7, it's rated for use all the way to a 9.5in wheel. The manufacturer measured the tread of the tire on a 10in wheel.

How do you feel about Apex running their recommended track fitment of a 315/30 on an 11, and a 295 on a 10? or some of the track people here on the forum running 325/30r19 on Apex's 19x11et44's? According to you this would be essentially "zero support". ]

I dont think this is a universal solution, nor is it that big of a deal.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by DeTh

Based on what you're saying, wouldn't that cause uneven tread wear? I've had no problems with tread wear running the 295/30 on a 19x10, nor my 305/35.

If you also look up the 295/30 Hoosier A7, it's rated for use all the way to a 9.5in wheel. The manufacturer measured the tread of the tire on a 10in wheel.

How do you feel about Apex running their recommended track fitment of a 315/30 on an 11, and a 295 on a 10? or some of the track people here on the forum running 325/30r19 on Apex's 19x11et44's? According to you this would be essentially "zero support". ]

I dont think this is a universal solution, nor is it that big of a deal.

It’s not what I say. It has been shown thru multiple independent tests of tires of various sizes on wheels of varying width that the same tire mounted on a wider wheel results in reduced lap times and improved grip.

It won’t show up as abnormal wear. It’s a reduction in, and change of shape of, the contact patch. Also, the breakaway characteristics of the tire changed at high slip angles due to the poor geometry of the wide tire on a narrow wheel. It’s more of a sudden snap instead of a gradual loss of grip. I once thought it was best to fit the widest possible tire on a wheel but I have since learned I was wrong. Again, just because it fits, doesn’t mean it’s an improvement.