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      04-27-2014, 09:53 AM   #221
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All dependent on how underrated the turbos are.
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      04-27-2014, 10:25 AM   #222
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some years ago there were some tuners (not BMW but all kind of chiptunes) which installed a button in the cockpit to activate/deactivate the tune.
is that still made? to me it apeared to be a good idea for not stressing the engine whenever driving easy.
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      04-27-2014, 10:44 AM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
All dependent on how underrated the turbos are.
Not so much. BMW only gets you to 18 psi at altitude. Using the common, good-to-6000-feet "standard" that most manufacturers use for overboost, plus the rule-of-thumb three percent loss per thousand feet of altitude, you can look for a gross power gain of about 18% if you run 18 psi at sea level, which should not overtax the turbos at all.

Let's see. Eighteen percent of 425 horsepower gets you, hm-m, carry the twelve...

Wow. Even with additional heating due to increased boost at sea level, an additional 50 horsepower seems as if it would be a walk in the park.

I bet they'll get even more than that.

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      04-27-2014, 11:14 AM   #224
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I want 400 whp. I'd have to see some rw dyno results before deciding whether this car needs a tune. I'm not a piggybacker. I'd actually be hoping that Dinan comes out with a flash tune because of the warranty and a mild boost should be all that is needed to get to my goal. I also want to avoid the "in for a penny in for a pound" mod disease that infected me the last time around with my 335. One of the reasons I went for the M4,and am paying dearly for it, is I'm hoping for out-of-the-box perfection.
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      04-27-2014, 01:09 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4TW View Post
... I also want to avoid the "in for a penny in for a pound" mod disease that infected me the last time around with my 335. One of the reasons I went for the M4,and am paying dearly for it, is I'm hoping for out-of-the-box perfection.


+ let's see what BMW Performance offers. With exclusivity (not enough market to pay for aftermarket codebreakers), they could sell a ton of tunes.
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      04-27-2014, 08:05 PM   #226
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+ let's see what BMW Performance offers. With exclusivity (not enough market to pay for aftermarket codebreakers), they could sell a ton of tunes.
Hmmm, let's see. The M5 offers 15 hp for $7300. Let's bet that they will offer 12 hp for 6500. Utter garbage for either car. Although I can't advise one to break an laws, if you plan to use your car off road on a track, spend $375 for cat delete pipes and get 25-30 hp. That's a 40x improvement, yes 4000% better hp/$ ratio...

Despite this they'll almost for sure offer this (they have hinted at different models, more performance levels, etc in the past for all new M cars) and they'll be a decent take rate. Obviously they'll also enjoy near infinite profit margins (except for the fact that this tune will likely come with some actual physical parts, lowering their margin from infinite to absurd)
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      04-28-2014, 01:15 AM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2
Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post


+ let's see what BMW Performance offers. With exclusivity (not enough market to pay for aftermarket codebreakers), they could sell a ton of tunes.
Hmmm, let's see. The M5 offers 15 hp for $7300. Let's bet that they will offer 12 hp for 6500. Utter garbage for either car. Although I can't advise one to break an laws, if you plan to use your car off road on a track, spend $375 for cat delete pipes and get 25-30 hp. That's a 40x improvement, yes 4000% better hp/$ ratio...

Despite this they'll almost for sure offer this (they have hinted at different models, more performance levels, etc in the past for all new M cars) and they'll be a decent take rate. Obviously they'll also enjoy near infinite profit margins (except for the fact that this tune will likely come with some actual physical parts, lowering their margin from infinite to absurd)
The debate on the CP seems to divide opinions from not worth it, to must have...

I have no idea as I have not driven a CP car, but this guy seems to feel that the CP is a must have option! And compared with Porsche option pricing it might be considered a bargain

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      04-28-2014, 06:55 AM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
The debate on the CP seems to divide opinions from not worth it, to must have...

I have no idea as I have not driven a CP car, but this guy seems to feel that the CP is a must have option! And compared with Porsche option pricing it might be considered a bargain

I see CP as a must have on the M5/6 because of the suspension and steering improvements. Not because of the meaningless 15hp. I also think that BMW released the CP so early in the lifecycle of the M5/6 because it is "a must have". According to more than one review, it seems the M5/6 were simply not good enough without it; this is probably why BMW introduced them so early in the lifecycle.

Last edited by CanAutM3; 04-28-2014 at 02:44 PM..
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      04-28-2014, 06:58 AM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Hmmm, let's see. The M5 offers 15 hp for $7300. Let's bet that they will offer 12 hp for 6500. Utter garbage for either car. Although I can't advise one to break an laws, if you plan to use your car off road on a track, spend $375 for cat delete pipes and get 25-30 hp. That's a 40x improvement, yes 4000% better hp/$ ratio...

Despite this they'll almost for sure offer this (they have hinted at different models, more performance levels, etc in the past for all new M cars) and they'll be a decent take rate. Obviously they'll also enjoy near infinite profit margins (except for the fact that this tune will likely come with some actual physical parts, lowering their margin from infinite to absurd)
IIRC, you also get an Akra exhaust for that $7300. Plus new wheels, revised suspension and steering. As you said still ridiculous money, but it is more than just a 15hp power pack for $7300.
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      04-28-2014, 12:12 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
IIRC, you also get an Akra exhaust for that $7300. Plus new wheels, revised suspension and steering. As you said still ridiculous money, but it is more than just a 15hp power pack for $7300.
I am aware that the CP for the M5 provides more than just hp and as you stated there are good reasons to consider some of those improvements.
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      04-28-2014, 08:53 PM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
Not so much. BMW only gets you to 18 psi at altitude. Using the common, good-to-6000-feet "standard" that most manufacturers use for overboost, plus the rule-of-thumb three percent loss per thousand feet of altitude, you can look for a gross power gain of about 18% if you run 18 psi at sea level, which should not overtax the turbos at all.

Let's see. Eighteen percent of 425 horsepower gets you, hm-m, carry the twelve...

Wow. Even with additional heating due to increased boost at sea level, an additional 50 horsepower seems as if it would be a walk in the park.

I bet they'll get even more than that.

Bruce
THIS.

If you guys weren't ridiculously excited to read the little blurb about how this car can compensate for altitude completely stock by increasing boost with a huge smile on your face. . . The turbos are RIPE to offer that "compensation boost" at sea level, that is amazing news and means that before any consideration of being "underrated" they actually have accessible additional boost just asking to be inducted forcibly!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but theoretically you might not even need a tune. Really you should just need a sealed low pressure environment over a sensor somewhere. . . Of course non of us know the way the tech works so Im speculating, but surely somewhere there is a sensor taking altitude readings. . . Now that navi is standard hopefully its not through that system!

Anyway its good food for thought.
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      04-28-2014, 10:28 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPiM5 View Post
This thread makes me LOL!

There will be no ECU remap tune for the S55 for at least 3 years after the M4 hits the streets. We're still waiting for a real remap to come out for the S63tu, nothing but broken promises. Piiggyback is the word of the day.

Anyways, the S55 just like the S63tu is going to be terrific right from the factory. So no need for a tune really. If you want tunability go to Mercedes. Those engines are highly tunable. Just need to open up the sound on these BMW engines a bit to get more enjoyment out of them.
I don't know they've got something to work with from the m5 tuners so they aren't starting from the ground up depending on if the encryption/ ecus' are the same.

Hopefully seeing the vast size of the market as compared to a few of us in the m5s who like and want tuning it'll entice more people to get in on it and we can make some progress.
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      04-28-2014, 10:31 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iRlz View Post
I don't know they've got something to work with from the m5 tuners so they aren't starting from the ground up depending on if the encryption/ ecus' are the same.

Hopefully seeing the vast size of the market as compared to a few of us in the m5s who like and want tuning it'll entice more people to get in on it and we can make some progress.
Yep. Same story as always. They will crack it, it's a matter of time
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      04-28-2014, 10:33 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
How long as the F10 M5 and new M6 been out? Theirs have not been cracked
Less R&D though because of the vastly smaller user base of the m5/m6 compared to a 60k based price sedan/coupe.... ESS will hop in, Terry already has one on order as opposed to just leasing an m5 a few months ago to give it shot [this comes back to market size] and his piggy back tune on race gas, tires and dp's just ran an 11.0 with the m5, on a damp track with no intake, exhaust or meth...
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      04-28-2014, 10:35 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
Yep. Same story as always. They will crack it, it's a matter of time
I mean I wouldn't say that either... Look at the IS-F now granted that's NA but they're still waiting or hoping that cars been out since 07 lol You can do bolt ons and stuff but there isn't a tune the way there is for the e90 M3 from BPM, ESS, Dinan etc.

I've safely run the BMS on my m5 for 10k+ HARD miles and its been fine... I just would prefer something that is intertwined in every aspect of the car the way a pro tune could for the n54, Either way the 11.0 m5 is making like 645whp and he doesn't have intake, exhaust or Meth lol

so I'd be shocked if there isn't a SAFE easy to attain 100whp for the m3/m4 via bolt ons, meth, race gas, and piggy.

So lets say there is a 3% drivetrain loss factor making the engine underrated so like 412whp + that safe 100whp personally means I'd expect to see the M3/m4s in the 480-550whp range.

Last edited by 335iRlz; 04-28-2014 at 10:40 PM..
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      04-28-2014, 10:35 PM   #236
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It will dyno about 395whp stock, multiply that by 1.18 to get you 466hp, the REAL stock hp. Adding another 125whp is entirely feasible with the JB4, a turbo back exhaust, and some good gas. That will then net you about 520whp, or 613hp. It's fairly simple when u just do the math.

Even if u guys want to low ball the power potential, say, +75whp with the mods listed above, that's still 470whp, or 554hp.

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      04-28-2014, 10:41 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by RSXDC5 View Post
It will dyno about 395whp stock, multiply that by 1.18 to get you 466hp, the REAL stock hp. Adding another 125whp is entirely feasible with the JB4, a turbo back exhaust, and some good gas. That will then net you about 520whp, or 613hp. It's fairly simple when u just do the math.

Even if u guys want to low ball the power potential, say, +75whp with the mods listed above, that's still 470whp, or 554hp.

how do you figure that lol if its underrated like the m5 0-5% drivetrain loss should be the norm for lots of people. After I was putting down nothing short of 550-570 on the same Dyno PTF uses for their cars I'd be shocked if this thing wasn't over 400 for MOST people now I'm sure someones engine will get built when the guy building it didn't get laid, or maybe he's getting a divorce and someones gonna get a s*ty build but for most I'd say 400-415whp should be reasonable IF it comes underrated like 63tu.
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      04-28-2014, 10:49 PM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iRlz View Post
how do you figure that lol if its underrated like the m5 0-5% drivetrain loss should be the norm for lots of people. After I was putting down nothing short of 550-570 on the same Dyno PTF uses for their cars I'd be shocked if this thing wasn't over 400 for MOST people now I'm sure someones engine will get built when the guy building it didn't get laid, or maybe he's getting a divorce and someones gonna get a s*ty build but for most I'd say 400-415whp should be reasonable IF it comes underrated like 63tu.
I was giving a more conservative number to start, although I do believe the car will dyno around 405whp stock though. That's about a 5% drivetrain loss. Adjust my calculations about +10whp if you feel like it

Either way though, 625hp+ or so is definitely on the horizon!
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      04-28-2014, 10:54 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSXDC5 View Post
I was giving a more conservative number to start, although I do believe the car will dyno around 405whp stock though. That's about a 5% drivetrain loss. Adjust my calculations about +10whp if you feel like it

Either way though, 625hp+ or so is definitely on the horizon!
Gotcha... Yeah I'd say mid 6s if there is real power to be had but 5s should be easily done.
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      04-28-2014, 10:55 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335iRlz View Post
Less R&D though because of the vastly smaller user base of the m5/m6 compared to a 60k based price sedan/coupe.... ESS will hop in, Terry already has one on order as opposed to just leasing an m5 a few months ago to give it shot [this comes back to market size] and his piggy back tune on race gas, tires and dp's just ran an 11.0 with the m5, on a damp track with no intake, exhaust or meth...
Ess has to hop in or they are dead. Pretty much all they do is superchargers. They are close to dead in the n54/55 scene
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      04-28-2014, 11:18 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by 335iRlz View Post
I mean I wouldn't say that either... Look at the IS-F now granted that's NA but they're still waiting or hoping that cars been out since 07 lol You can do bolt ons and stuff but there isn't a tune the way there is for the e90 M3 from BPM, ESS, Dinan etc.

I.
There is nowhere near the market place for the isf as any BMW.

It's a low volume car from a manufacturer that is not popular in the aftermarket community

Not a good comparison IMO
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      04-28-2014, 11:31 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
There is nowhere near the market place for the isf as any BMW.

It's a low volume car from a manufacturer that is not popular in the aftermarket community

Not a good comparison IMO
Still sold 11k Units granted compared to the m3 even the e60 m5 production of 20k http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...rsion-yet.html thats a small amount.. http://lexusenthusiast.com/2013/03/1...-discontinued/
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