Oil changes if tracking car

[sc_tr0jan_m3]

Originally Posted by hC1001

Seems thats the process.

Thanks trojan, will give it a try on the next return.

A few bucks saved here n there adds up quickly!

[N1rve]

Originally Posted by hC1001

A oil change kit is $60 something, you would still be saving $30. Add diff fluid, tranny fluid, brake fluid, wiper blades, etc to the same package and you save more.

Ah, so might as well place 1 huge order and return 1 huge order.

[agentrnge]

Its cool that they do this, and I hope to take advantage of returning parts as they need to be re-replaced. but doing this with oil/fluids seems like its gonna backfire one day and cause them to suffer and/or kill the return policy.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by agentrnge

Its cool that they do this, and I hope to take advantage of returning parts as they need to be re-replaced. but doing this with oil/fluids seems like its gonna backfire one day and cause them to suffer and/or kill the return policy.

They built this into their financial model and they seem to be doing just fine...

MILFORD, Conn., Dec. 9, 2020 /PRNewswire/ -- Today, Connecticut-based online auto parts retailer FCP Euro announced that they have surpassed $100 million in annual sales, a milestone achieved through 20 years of consistent revenue growth. As a company recognized in Inc. magazine's 5000 fastest-growing privately-owned companies for seven years, this milestone is a testament to the focus on customer service and the growth of the digital presence within the Automotive Aftermarket.

[jfritz27]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

They built this into their financial model and they seem to be doing just fine...

MILFORD, Conn., Dec. 9, 2020 /PRNewswire/ -- Today, Connecticut-based online auto parts retailer FCP Euro announced that they have surpassed $100 million in annual sales, a milestone achieved through 20 years of consistent revenue growth. As a company recognized in Inc. magazine's 5000 fastest-growing privately-owned companies for seven years, this milestone is a testament to the focus on customer service and the growth of the digital presence within the Automotive Aftermarket.

Hah, nice.

[TomsM4]

Thanks for the advice. Bimmerworld recommends Redline 5W30 as a compromise between on and off track use. I haven't had any trouble using with the standard BMW oil on the track, but would prefer not to.

[bimmerboyE92]

I run Redline 10w40 in my F80 and my newly rebuilt E36 S50 track only cars. Here is a blackstone report after 5 track days with no street miles on the F80. Interestingly, the viscosity dropped or RL 10w40 is thinner than advertised.

f80blkstn by D S, on Flickr

[edycol]

Originally Posted by bimmerboyE92

I run Redline 10w40 in my F80 and my newly rebuilt E36 S50 track only cars. Here is a blackstone report after 5 track days with no street miles on the F80. Interestingly, the viscosity dropped or RL 10w40 is thinner than advertised.

f80blkstn by D S, on Flickr

You have to respect Blackstone when they say: it is not a problem that oil sheared 1/3 after 5 track days.
This is ridiculous. Based on numbers, I would say contamination of oil (fuel) is a problem. But fuel numbers are pretty good. So, that being said, I think there is an issue in analysis itself. This is medium heavy W30 oil, not heavy 10W40 that Redline is. Flash point is dramatically down. I would ask them to rerun sample and confirm these numbers. If second run comes same, I would not use this oil anymore and move to something like Motul 10W40 300V considering you mostly track car and not use that much as daily driver.

[bimmerboyE92]

I will look into Motul as well for both cars! This was sampled last year. I basically do an oil change every 4-6 track days... basically how long a set of tires last. And we usually bleed 500ml out of the calipers as well.

This sample was after the peak heat of the summer and I suspect that the oil breaks down very quickly once heated past it's working temp. We plan to do another sample after 6 track days this year and I'll post results here. Hopefully its still better than running BMW 0w30 LL04.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by bimmerboyE92

I will look into Motul as well for both cars! This was sampled last year. I basically do an oil change every 4-6 track days... basically how long a set of tires last. And we usually bleed 500ml out of the calipers as well.

This sample was after the peak heat of the summer and I suspect that the oil breaks down very quickly once heated past it's working temp. We plan to do another sample after 6 track days this year and I'll post results here. Hopefully its still better than running BMW 0w30 LL04.

Ambient temperature does not matter. Your cooling system will (should) keep your oil temperature in check. Much, and I mean MUCH bigger issue is altitude for cooling, and in KY you do not have that issue. Redline is street/track oil, and this shear is ridiculous for heavy 10W40 oil. I have seen thin 0W40 oil that shears less after several track days.
Recently I have seen two UOA on C7 Vette. One was Mobil1 ESP 0W40 another Motul 0W40 300V. Both oils had some 5,000 miles on it, driven hard on track very often in Texas. Both oils stayed in 12cst range, so no dramatic shearing (Motul starts mid 13's, M1 close to 13. Redline is well into 15's). 300V surprisingly had less oxidation and much lower metal numbers. 10W40, all things being equal (like in Redline or Motul 300V) should shear less than 0W40.

[kyrix1st]

Every track day.

S55 doesn't even use the almighty pricy 10w60, so buy a stack of M1 0w40/shell 5w40 from walmart and change it every time.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Every track day.

S55 doesn't even use the almighty pricy 10w60, so buy a stack of M1 0w40/shell 5w40 from walmart and change it every time.

I would avoid M1 0W40 in direct injection engines.

[horsepower_and_hounds]

Originally Posted by edycol

I would avoid M1 0W40 in direct injection engines.

enlighten me

[edycol]

Originally Posted by horsepower_and_hounds

enlighten me

Too high Sulfated Ash and Phosphorous (SAPS). All M1 Full SAPS oils have SAPS at 1.34% or higher (5W40 European Car has at 1.4%). Lubrizol a long time ago determined the connection between SAPS and intake valve deposits. In their study, Full SAPS oil (at 1.1%) left 167% more deposits than Low-SAPS oil (at 0.8%). Castrol Edge 0W40 would be a better choice (1.15%).
Also, M1 0W40 has pretty low HTHS for such oil at 3.6cp. For the track, in the S55 engine, I would go higher HTHS, at least 3.7 (Castrol 0W40) or higher.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by horsepower_and_hounds

enlighten me

Full SAPS is recommended for engines without OPF, which applies to most of F80. Full SAPS engine oils generally have the most anti-wear and antioxidant additives compared to mid~low SAPS variants. Also note that HTHS of 0w-30 BMW LL01 FE is less than 3.0.

I personally would not hesitate using M1 0W-40 that is good for Porsche A40 approval, especially if I am only running for one track day. 9A1 flat six engines are also DI.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Full SAPS is recommended for engines without OPF, which applies to most of F80. Full SAPS engine oils generally have the most anti-wear and antioxidant additives compared to mid~low SAPS variants. Also note that HTHS of 0w-30 BMW LL01 FE is less than 3.0.

I personally would not hesitate using M1 0W-40 that is good for Porsche A40 approval, especially if I am only running for one track day. 9A1 flat six engines are also DI.

Again, SAPS is the one creating IVD. You cannot go around that fact. SAPS is byproduct. Full SAPS oils are range above 1.0%, they are not the same or created equal. There are Full-SAPS oils with less SAPS. Mobil1 had some issues around TBN retention and still does in some oils. Increasing certain additives also created SAPS %.
Porsche also has C40 approval. Whether A40 or C40 will be used depends on the quality of the fuel as oils with less TBN are not that good in TBN retention if the quality of fuel is compromised. Porsche A40 approval is actually not at all stringent. Only reason why Porsche A40 approval is in focus is that simulates hrs of track time at Nurburgring.
As for HTHS and BMW LL-01FE, HTHS is 3.1 It is CAFE driven requirement and there is more and more evidence that rod bearing issues on N55 generation engines might be driven by LL01FE switch. It is purely CAFE driven, nothing else.
I personally use M1 0W40FS in my BMW< but my BMW is a port-injected engine. As for, additives, wear, do not forget that in Europe, taxis, gas engines are using Low-SAPS (C3) oils for more than 15 years. BMW in the EU used LL04 oils in N55 generation of engines, never LL01. Of course, that was possible bcs. the EU fuel (sulfur levels) is of exceptional quality.
S55 in my garage would never see oil below W40 grade, and definitely oil with more balanced SAPS.

[kyrix1st]

Not sure of how S55 DI system works, but carbon deposit is burned off at over 300C, and there is no real way to completely prevent IVD on direct injection engines regardless of what engine oil you use.

OP is asking under sustained track driving conditions (with high load and rpm) so I believe this will be much less of an issue. I do see your point in using lower SAPS to reduce that build up, but it will all depend on how much of a trade-off actually occurs concerning protection vs. IVD buildup in S55 using M1 0W40 over mid-low SAPS oils with completely different additives, for which we use certain manufacturers' approvals as gauging standards.

To be honest, if you want best of both worlds at a short interval, just use motul 300V. You get what you pay. Don't forget to straight pipe the exhaust though, cats will be destroyed fairly quickly.

Originally Posted by edycol

Again, SAPS is the one creating IVD. You cannot go around that fact. SAPS is byproduct. Full SAPS oils are range above 1.0%, they are not the same or created equal. There are Full-SAPS oils with less SAPS. Mobil1 had some issues around TBN retention and still does in some oils. Increasing certain additives also created SAPS %.
Porsche also has C40 approval. Whether A40 or C40 will be used depends on the quality of the fuel as oils with less TBN are not that good in TBN retention if the quality of fuel is compromised. Porsche A40 approval is actually not at all stringent. Only reason why Porsche A40 approval is in focus is that simulates hrs of track time at Nurburgring.
As for HTHS and BMW LL-01FE, HTHS is 3.1 It is CAFE driven requirement and there is more and more evidence that rod bearing issues on N55 generation engines might be driven by LL01FE switch. It is purely CAFE driven, nothing else.
I personally use M1 0W40FS in my BMW< but my BMW is a port-injected engine. As for, additives, wear, do not forget that in Europe, taxis, gas engines are using Low-SAPS (C3) oils for more than 15 years. BMW in the EU used LL04 oils in N55 generation of engines, never LL01. Of course, that was possible bcs. the EU fuel (sulfur levels) is of exceptional quality.
S55 in my garage would never see oil below W40 grade, and definitely oil with more balanced SAPS.

[horsepower_and_hounds]

all interesting.....
I been running 5-40 euro and M1 in all my BMW's since 2009 and the Alfa 4C while i had it. Drive them all hard and tuned. But then again I have never had any of them past 35k miles. I just hit that with this M4 so will see. Thanks for the explanations

[edycol]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Not sure of how S55 DI system works, but carbon deposit is burned off at over 300C, and there is no real way to completely prevent IVD on direct injection engines regardless of what engine oil you use.

OP is asking under sustained track driving conditions (with high load and rpm) so I believe this will be much less of an issue. I do see your point in using lower SAPS to reduce that build up, but it will all depend on how much of a trade-off actually occurs concerning protection vs. IVD buildup in S55 using M1 0W40 over mid-low SAPS oils with completely different additives, for which we use certain manufacturers' approvals as gauging standards.

To be honest, if you want best of both worlds at a short interval, just use motul 300V. You get what you pay. Don't forget to straight pipe the exhaust though, cats will be destroyed fairly quickly.

Actually it does not work that way.
First of all, carbon created by SAPS does not burn over 300c. Just take a look at older VW/Audi TFSI engines, especially Audi 4.2 V8 from B7 S4 which was known as carbon/fuel dilution monster. If carbon created by SAPS was burning over 300c, people would not have to ever replace DPF/GPF in diesel and gas car as filter regeneration operates close to 600c and sometimes even higher.
Again, SAPS is a byproduct of burn. Just bcs. oil is Mid or Low SAPS does not mean wear is higher. MB229.5, an MB Full SAPS specification has the same wear requirements as MB229.51 and MB229.52 Mid/Low SAPS specifications. MB229.51/52 have to meet the same wear requirements as MB229.5. VW504.00/507.00 (I worked on the development of oil that had to be approved for this specification) has a higher wear requirement than VW502.00 which is full SAPS oil. VW511.00/Porsche C40 has a higher wear requirement than Porsche A40.
N55/S55 engines have well-resolved PCV so IVD is not an issue like on some vehicles. In general, it seems that IVD is not as big an issue on these engines, but the fact is that you re in the end introducing more byproduct.
Now, I was writing about 300V, and one has to be extremely careful with that oil. 300V is exceptional oil, but it is racing oil, and not really suitable for longer OCI. It lacks a lot of additives that are necessary for daily use to keep the engine healthy. 300V is packed with Esters, and while Esters are good, they are good in combination with other base stocks and additives. Esters oxidize much more than other base stocks. A lot of esters are good for the track, to bumph HTHS from relatively low KV100, but one has to be on the lookout for oxidation. Depending on an engine, 300V could be useless after 3,000 miles in an engine. That is where TAN becomes higher than TBN. Many people think that Motul's SPort line is too expensive as price-wise is too close to 300V. But, actually, SPort line has more balanced additives and base stocks to negate bad side of Esters, oxidation. So yeah, if one is going to do extremely short OCI, 300V is exceptional oil. If one is going to keep oil longer, I would go Motul Sport 5W40.
As for catalytic converters, Motuls SPort, 300V, Mobil1 0W40 etc. do not have ZDDP in extreme levels. They are around 1100-1200ppm. Mobil1 0W30 and 0W50 Racing, Valvoline VR are the ones that have super excessive ZDDP levels.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by horsepower_and_hounds

all interesting.....
I been running 5-40 euro and M1 in all my BMW's since 2009 and the Alfa 4C while i had it. Drive them all hard and tuned. But then again I have never had any of them past 35k miles. I just hit that with this M4 so will see. Thanks for the explanations

M1 is very "greasy" product. There is no doubt it is exceptional oil.
In previous version of 0W40, that was on sale until 11/2015 they had some issues around TBN retention. I think new formulation tried to address that as TBN is extremely high. That resulted in high SAPS too. Also, it is not just IVD. Modern engines, journal bearings etc. do not really like too many additives. We are here not talking flat tappet engines. I personally use in my wife's Tiguan, which is DI engine Mobil1 ESP 0W30 oil. Their ESP 5W30 is exceptional oil in every aspect. Extremely low NOACK (also very important when it comes to IVD), MB229.52 approval etc.

[bimmerboyE92]

Updated Blackstone report. Redline 10w40 held up fine to 4 track days. Just not sure where the silicon is coming from. Even with a starting value of 10, it goes up to 20 in 4 track days? New Mahle filters installed at the beginning of this sample.

f80uoa by D S, on Flickr

[edycol]

Originally Posted by bimmerboyE92

Updated Blackstone report. Redline 10w40 held up fine to 4 track days. Just not sure where the silicon is coming from. Even with a starting value of 10, it goes up to 20 in 4 track days? New Mahle filters installed at the beginning of this sample.

f80uoa by D S, on Flickr

Silicone? Probably air filter or you have air leak somewhere around filter or charge pipe.
I think I mentioned this. Do TBN and TAN. Doing TAN in BMW engines, especially using Ester based oil is very important.
But, drop after 600 miles is not that stellar.
Try Motul 10W40 300V.