Re-torque titanium lugs hot or cold during track day

[PayamFSU]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but when should I be re-torquing the wheels during a track day? I have titanium lugs, wondering if it makes a difference hot or cold with regards to thermal expansion, different metals, and torque specs. Thanks.

[F3IGHTY]

Originally Posted by PayamFSU

Sorry if this is a stupid question but when should I be re-torquing the wheels during a track day? I have titanium lugs, wondering if it makes a difference hot or cold with regards to thermal expansion, different metals, and torque specs. Thanks.

Don't torque lugs hot, regardless of material.

[DreamTime]

I torque my wheels first thing each morning at the track, while they're still cold. That is the only time I torque them throughout the day unless I have to remove the wheels for some reason.

[PayamFSU]

Awesome thanks, also is it ok to take them off with impact ?

[DreamTime]

A lot of people do and have no issues. I worry, especially since I have studs, so I always break them free by hand with a breaker bar before I use an impact to remove them. I'm also really careful how tight I reinstall with the impact so that I do not over-do it.

[mcvaughan]

Cold only.

[PayamFSU]

Thanks for the replies guys.

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by PayamFSU

Awesome thanks, also is it ok to take them off with impact ?

Ok, to take off with an impact. Do not tighten with an impact, unless on low setting. Finish off with regular torque wrench.

Regarding studs, I use an impact to loosen because of time. Just have to watch studs aren't backing out. I use red lock tite on the stud base, haven't been backing out yet.

[ellipsis212]

I've probably loosened my lug nuts 20x on studs with an impact and they haven't backed out one iota.

[DreamTime]

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

Ok, to take off with an impact. Do not tighten with an impact, unless on low setting. Finish off with regular torque wrench.

Regarding studs, I use an impact to loosen because of time. Just have to watch studs aren't backing out. I use red lock tite on the stud base, haven't been backing out yet.

Originally Posted by ellipsis212

I've probably loosened my lug nuts 20x on studs with an impact and they haven't backed out one iota.

For sure, that's why I mentioned that most people use an impact to remove with no issues. If I was racing and pressed for time, I would obvi use an impact each and every time. Since, for the time being, I usually just remove the wheels at the beginning and end of a track weekend, I take the time to use the breaker bar. But, it is by no means required

And, you're both right. With proper stud installation, there should be no problems. I hear about people having issues with studs backing out during wheel changes and I feel that maybe the underlying issue was that they were not installed properly, versus the studs themselves being the problem.

[mindspin311]

Been using an impact for years to remove. Obviously do your final torque with a wrench.

Torquing hot is OK, given that you reduce the amount of TQ you're using. For example, on our E30 endurance cars, we cold TQ at 90ft/lbs, but throughout the day, we will check TQ with the wrench set at 75. Studs when hot will stretch more, so a 90ft/lb HOT torque can cause issues when things cool off and heat again.

[DreamTime]

Originally Posted by mindspin311

Been using an impact for years to remove. Obviously do your final torque with a wrench.

Torquing hot is OK, given that you reduce the amount of TQ you're using. For example, on our E30 endurance cars, we cold TQ at 90ft/lbs, but throughout the day, we will check TQ with the wrench set at 75. Studs when hot will stretch more, so a 90ft/lb HOT torque can cause issues when things cool off and heat again.

Justin, is that you? I may be wrong, but I think I recognize your screen name from M3Forum. Plus ATL + E30s + recent F8x acquisition (Joe was telling me about this car when we were talking about your Imola E46 recently). That would be one hell of a coincidence if it's not you lol. Btw, this is Mary with the black E90 M3.

If so, any advice of yours is A+. I know you know your shit. It is interesting to me to learn about the proper way to torque when wheels are hot, if needed. It's good to see you on M3Post

[mindspin311]

Originally Posted by DreamTime

Justin, is that you? I may be wrong, but I think I recognize your screen name from M3Forum. Plus ATL + E30s + recent F8x acquisition (Joe was telling me about this car when we were talking about your Imola E46 recently). That would be one hell of a coincidence if it's not you lol. Btw, this is Mary with the black E90 M3.

If so, any advice of yours is A+. I know you know your shit. It is interesting to me to learn about the proper way to torque when wheels are hot, if needed. It's good to see you on M3Post

Hello

[DreamTime]

Originally Posted by mindspin311

Hello

Lol, hey Congrats on the Avus Blue M3, that is a stunning color. Hope to have a chance to check it out sometime this season.

[tom @ eas]

Please switch to steel studs if tracking. Titanium studs do not belong on the street, much less the track.

[PayamFSU]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Please switch to steel studs if tracking. Titanium studs do not belong on the street, much less the track.

Can you please elaborate ? Please excuse the ignorance, thanks.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by PayamFSU

Can you please elaborate ? Please excuse the ignorance, thanks.

Seen titanium studs fail in person, our cameraman was quick on the trigger:





More info in this thread: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1510538

[M3OW!]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Seen titanium studs fail in person, our cameraman was quick on the trigger:



More info in this thread: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1510538

HOLY. SH!T. Well documented, indeed! That's nuts.

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Please switch to steel studs if tracking. Titanium studs do not belong on the street, much less the track.

OP: When I started reading this thread I was going to post the same thing. Titanium studs are only for looks and certainly don't belong on a car that is tracked.

Steel studs should be installed with Loctite or Permatex blue and the lug nuts can be removed with an impact wrench when changing your wheels. Studs should be removed every year or two. Installing them with red thread locker makes them harder to remove and you may need to use a torch and heat them. Lug nuts can be installed with an adjustable speed impact wrench only if you start them by hand and for a couple rotations and then only at low speed until they just start to snug. Then use a torque wrench to bring them up to spec. Note that the 14mm lug bolts for an M3/M4 require 105 lb/ft (88 lb/ft for older BMWs), but when using a stud conversion kit it should be less, around 85 lb/ft for the street and 90 lb/ft for the track. This is the recommendation from Apex Racing.

[PayamFSU]

Awesome thanks guys , hopefully this helps other people as well in the future.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

Note that the 14mm lug bolts for an M3/M4 require 105 lb/ft (88 lb/ft for older BMWs)

Thank you for this info! I've been so used to 88 lb/ft for so many years, it didn't occur to me that the M2C would be different. Looks like 140 N-m (103 ft-lbs) it is. TIS link on spec here.

Regards,
Chuck

[adc]

I use a 100 ft-lbs (white) torque limiter to install my OEM bolts with an impact wrench. Then finish them off with the torque wrench. (I’ve never had an over tighten situation so far).

I know the post is about studs and lugs, but is there any difference? Or perhaps I’m doing it wrong?