Occasional DEs in F80 - mods needed?

[turtl631]

I'll probably get the F80 out a few times a year. Main track ride is an extensively modified 240SX, but sometimes its down and there are nice one day events at Milwaukee Mile, Road America etc that I would like to be able to hit regardless. I have moderate experience, not a n00b but not pro by any means. Just like to get out 5-6 times a year at least.

That all said, what do I need to keep my F80 from being a disappointment? I'll be replacing the MPSS with sticky street tires on 18s, my summer 18" set. Beyond that, I'm particularly curious about alignment (and thus camber plates etc) and brake pads.

Sounds like stock pads will give up the ghost on anyone who has half a clue what they're doing. Any of the common options like RS29s doable for street driving without major squealing or eating up rotors? I'm not familiar with these compounds from the other cars I've owned. I drive the car year round so I could potentially swap pads and wheels every spring and fall. I'd really prefer not to swap pads for each event but could do so if that's the best option. I'm aware I'm not going to find a pad that I can drive all winter and also handle track duty.

I appreciate all realistic advice. I tried to casually track my C6 Z06 in much the same way and a few issues with the car were pretty frustrating. Don't want a repeat, but not looking to mod things just for the sake of it. Thanks!

[avantix]

Tires, camber plates and brake pads are a must in my opinion if you get out there 3 or more times a year and given you have track experience. Brake pads are a breeze to change on this platform, takes about 5 minutes per wheel and if you're already changing out to track wheels half the work is already done. RS29s will squeal a LOT when not pushed hard and it gets very annoying very quickly. I don't recommend using them as dailies. Stock alignment is fine and if you do install camber plates (GC is the popular choice) negative 2.5 up front and stock rear camber is again a popular configuration. There's no general consensus for tires and it's really a preference choice, but in speaking with folks at the track Bridgestone RE71 and Nitto NT01 both perform and wear well. I myself went with the NT01s and I am extremely happy with them but they are more track focused R compound tire as opposed to the RE71 which is a street tire that performs very well on track. If you will be using as a daily tire the RE71 would probably be your best bet.

Good luck and have fun track prepping your car.

[F3IGHTY]

+1 for Camber plates and pads

[M3SQRD]

+2 for camber plates and pads

[turtl631]

Any recs for occasional track use pads? Anything that's tolerable on the street or does everyone swap? I don't do a ton of street driving so a little squeaking is okay. Don't want to run anything that's tough on rotors. The default answer seems to be Pagid RS29.

Regarding camber plates, I'm planning a mild drop on Swift springs. Sounds like most end up with around -2* front camber so I may just see how that works with street tires. In my experience, spherical bearing camber plates don't do well with Midwest winter weather and my car is a year round street car.

[hwalk]

Originally Posted by turtl631

Any recs for occasional track use pads? Anything that's tolerable on the street or does everyone swap? I don't do a ton of street driving so a little squeaking is okay. Don't want to run anything that's tough on rotors. The default answer seems to be Pagid RS29.

Regarding camber plates, I'm planning a mild drop on Swift springs. Sounds like most end up with around -2* front camber so I may just see how that works with street tires. In my experience, spherical bearing camber plates don't do well with Midwest winter weather and my car is a year round street car.

The M-Perfomance pads are a kind of compromise (i'd suggest steel brakelines and race fluid as well), work way better than stock pads on track and don't squeal that much. No issues with fitting (BMW parts).

If you put winter tires on your car it'd make sense to adjust the camber before winter season and back again. You'd need alignment after each adjustment. The thing is, with -2 or -2,5 you'll wear out the (softer) winter tires on the inside immediately...

Of course you have much more fun on track with more negative camber as steering feels completely different/better...

[eltoshan]

Depending on your driving style I'd do brake fluid before camber plates. Finding your brake pedal going all the way to the floor at the end of a straight is not fun.

[turtl631]

I'm going to do a few sessions tomorrow in stock form. Should be a good shake down. I can always coast on the straights if the brakes get unhappy and still have a reasonably good time.

I ordered a set of pagid rs29, as well as the swift springs and I'll be running Falken rt615 tires once I get my new set of wheels. I think for a few DEs a year, the slight increase in front camber that I get with the mild drop from the swift springs will help enough. It seems that people usually end up with nearly -2 degrees. Not enthused about running a set of camber plates through the winter where they will be exposed to corrosion from salt here, and I don't want to have to swap them on and off twice a year.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by turtl631

Any recs for occasional track use pads? Anything that's tolerable on the street or does everyone swap? I don't do a ton of street driving so a little squeaking is okay. Don't want to run anything that's tough on rotors. The default answer seems to be Pagid RS29.

Regarding camber plates, I'm planning a mild drop on Swift springs. Sounds like most end up with around -2* front camber so I may just see how that works with street tires. In my experience, spherical bearing camber plates don't do well with Midwest winter weather and my car is a year round street car.

I would have recommended checking out Ferodo or Carbotech for a more street-friendly compound. Not DS1.11, RS29, or XP10 level compounds though, these all get annoying after a few hundred street miles.

Default answer should not be RS29s...as stated many times recently they're overrated. 7/10ths pad.

Originally Posted by eltoshan

Depending on your driving style I'd do brake fluid before camber plates. Finding your brake pedal going all the way to the floor at the end of a straight is not fun.

BMW uses a DOT4 fluid that works pretty good. No need to change unless the fluid is old.

Originally Posted by turtl631

I'm going to do a few sessions tomorrow in stock form. Should be a good shake down. I can always coast on the straights if the brakes get unhappy and still have a reasonably good time.

I ordered a set of pagid rs29, as well as the swift springs and I'll be running Falken rt615 tires once I get my new set of wheels. I think for a few DEs a year, the slight increase in front camber that I get with the mild drop from the swift springs will help enough. It seems that people usually end up with nearly -2 degrees. Not enthused about running a set of camber plates through the winter where they will be exposed to corrosion from salt here, and I don't want to have to swap them on and off twice a year.

It's always good to get a benchmark! Be mindful of the brakes and you'll be fine. You'll probably start to fade the pads, but it depends on the track.

Boo why did you order those! Swapping plates 2-3 times a year isn't too bad, but I understand nothing wrong with that. Why run the Falkens? Isn't that an older gen. tire by today's standards? I would consider the newer Hankook RS4 or Bridgestone RE71s. Initial reports are saying the Hankook's wear very well.

[turtl631]

I got a set of the RS29 lightly used at a substantial discount. I'll just swap out with stock each time, doesn't seem like there's anything that works as a reasonable compromise with how quick these cars are.

I got a good deal on the Falkens when there was a rebate, in reasonable sizing for 18" TE37s. Limited options for a wider rear tire in the 18" max performance summer tire category. I don't need the fastest newest tire for what I'm doing, but I'd at least prefer to be on something better than Pilot Super Sports etc.

[turtl631]

Turns out it's going to be raining intermittently today, so I think the pilot Sports and stock pads will be fine. Next time I run, assuming it is dry, I will have the slight additional camber from lowering, potentially the stickier tires, and the track pads.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by turtl631

I got a set of the RS29 lightly used at a substantial discount. I'll just swap out with stock each time, doesn't seem like there's anything that works as a reasonable compromise with how quick these cars are.

I got a good deal on the Falkens when there was a rebate, in reasonable sizing for 18" TE37s. Limited options for a wider rear tire in the 18" max performance summer tire category. I don't need the fastest newest tire for what I'm doing, but I'd at least prefer to be on something better than Pilot Super Sports etc.

I think one of the less aggressive Carbotech pads could handle double duty even for this car, but swapping isn't too bad.

Originally Posted by turtl631

Turns out it's going to be raining intermittently today, so I think the pilot Sports and stock pads will be fine. Next time I run, assuming it is dry, I will have the slight additional camber from lowering, potentially the stickier tires, and the track pads.

Let us know how it goes!

[turtl631]

Event went fine. Stock pads transferred and I got some judder, even driving with MPSS in intermittent drizzle. Definitely not track worthy if you have any experience, I was not turning fast laps. It was nice to get the car out though! An S2000 was wrecked in the same spot I crashed mine a few years ago. Sucks.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

I think one of the less aggressive Carbotech pads could handle double duty even for this car, but swapping isn't too bad.



Let us know how it goes!

carbotech is g-loc now. R10 compound is fine for street use but squeals a bit when cold

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

carbotech is g-loc now. R10 compound is fine for street use but squeals a bit when cold

Not exactly true. CT still exists but Danny and Chris Pulsar left CT to start G-LOC brakes in 2016. Brake compounds were identical initially but likely have/will change with time (additional development at G-LOC).

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

carbotech is g-loc now. R10 compound is fine for street use but squeals a bit when cold

As mentioned above, both exist.

I mainly meant that the 1521 or AX6 compounds *might* be better for dual duty, but I've never ran them and I cant say how they compare to OEM pads or "track" pads.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

As mentioned above, both exist.

I mainly meant that the 1521 or AX6 compounds *might* be better for dual duty, but I've never ran them and I cant say how they compare to OEM pads or "track" pads.

I use CT 1521 pads in AP (M4) and PFC (e92 M3) calipers on the street. They're excellent street pads but I would not recommend using them on the track. I use PFC 11 or 08 pads for the track.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

I use CT 1521 pads in AP (M4) and PFC (e92 M3) calipers on the street. They're excellent street pads but I would not recommend using them on the track. I use PFC 11 or 08 pads for the track.

Do you know how they compare to stock pads? I think it would be interesting to know how they perform compared to stock pads. I didn't mean so say use them exclusive as one's track setup, but *maybe* for someone who tracks 1-2 times a year and wants something more aggressive on the street? I really don't know, just speculating here.

The PFC, Pagids, and track Hawk/Ferodos get pretty annoying after a few hundred street miles. I run them for a few weeks between events, but not much more than that.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

Do you know how they compare to stock pads? I think it would be interesting to know how they perform compared to stock pads. I didn't mean so say use them exclusive as one's track setup, but *maybe* for someone who tracks 1-2 times a year and wants something more aggressive on the street? I really don't know, just speculating here.

The PFC, Pagids, and track Hawk/Ferodos get pretty annoying after a few hundred street miles. I run them for a few weeks between events, but not much more than that.

The CT 1521 is more capable than the OEM pad but you can still fade it on the street (mountains of WV). I believe the upper temp limit of 1521 is 800 F vs. 2000 F for a race pad.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

As mentioned above, both exist.

I mainly meant that the 1521 or AX6 compounds *might* be better for dual duty, but I've never ran them and I cant say how they compare to OEM pads or "track" pads.

I didn't realize CT was still around

I used Panther Plus (AX6) on my WRX many years ago and they couldn't hold up to DE usage. not sure it's worth using these for f80

I'm using R10 front and R8 rear on my SM (driven to track) and like them much better.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I didn't realize CT was still around

I used Panther Plus (AX6) on my WRX many years ago and they couldn't hold up to DE usage. not sure it's worth using these for f80

I'm using R10 front and R8 rear on my SM (driven to track) and like them much better.

The current AX6 is not the same as the old Panther Plus (used them on my S2000); however, I do agree that the AX6 isn't a great (race) track pad especially for a ~3500 lb car. Also, they're not a good street pad either due to noise. They'll perform better on track than OEM pads but an XP pad would be the best option because you'd have to swap the AX6, just like the XP, pads before/after a track day/weekend.

The PFC z-rated street pad is an OK track pad but it's still a compromise. On the street, they require a little heat before they bite well. On the track, there's still a chance you'd experience fade.

[nicknaz]

^ why not just put up with the squeal and keep one of the milder XP (like xp10 / g-loc r10) pads on all the time?

(Does it not work because f80 is too heavy, and requires and XP pad that just isn't gong to work on the street)