034Motorsport 2 Piece Floating Front and Rear Brake Rotor for BMW F8X (m2, m3, m4)

[M3SQRD]

My forgetting hand analysis comment was made because at least one team admitted they didn’t expect porpoising to occur which is basically forgetting the fundamentals/physics of the problem. Hence, the forgetting hand analysis is equivalent in forgetting the fundamentals.

034 rotors have been on the market for more than one track season yet only one person is using them on track. How do you know this user is using his braking system to its max performance? Rotor wear and performance can be vastly different between drivers - just look at the F blue calipers and see whether they’ve turned green. Another 034 set has been FS since May with no buyers. So only two buyers of 034 rotors for this track season? Not sure FCP warranty makes the 034 a better performing brake rotor. Girodisc offers oem and aftermarket brake kit rotor rings so there are clearly far more users of their rotors than 034 Audi, BMW and VW rotors. Does 034 offer a 405/380 mm N2H brake rotors? Girodisc does. I personally have no skin in the game because I have PFC brake kits on my e92 M3s and Essex/AP kit on my f82 M4. I found the stock blue brakes very limiting on track and I doubt adding an improved aftermarket rotor (Girodisc or 034) is sufficient to address the limitations of the stock brakes.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

My forgetting hand analysis comment was made because at least one team admitted they didn’t expect porpoising to occur which is basically forgetting the fundamentals/physics of the problem. Hence, the forgetting hand analysis is equivalent in forgetting the fundamentals.

034 rotors have been on the market for more than one track season yet only one person is using them on track. How do you know this user is using his braking system to its max performance? Rotor wear and performance can be vastly different between drivers - just look at the F blue calipers and see whether they’ve turned green. Another 034 set has been FS since May with no buyers. So only two buyers of 034 rotors for this track season? Not sure FCP warranty makes the 034 a better performing brake rotor. Girodisc offers oem and aftermarket brake kit rotor rings so there are clearly far more users of their rotors than 034 Audi, BMW and VW rotors. Does 034 offer a 405/380 mm N2H brake rotors? Girodisc does. I personally have no skin in the game because I have PFC brake kits on my e92 M3s and Essex/AP kit on my f82 M4. I found the stock blue brakes very limiting on track and I doubt adding an improved aftermarket rotor (Girodisc or 034) is sufficient to address the limitations of the stock brakes.

1) like I said before, not everyone is going to post on the forums, and most of the time if a person is going to go out of their way to make an account and post on the forum it's going to be because they're pissed off something went wrong and they feel like they have wasted their money. If everything is going perfectly there's a huge chance they won't even post. Look at jfritz if he didn't post we wouldn't have ever known he had them. Also Blake's garage is another who has run these rotors on the track.

2) Blake has run his m4 quite hard on the track and posts videos of his track use, and he's pushed hard enough that his brakes are almost black.

3) when I wrote this review I don't believe girodisc was available at turner yet. So only these rotors had life time warranty.

The reason why having fcp euro as a vendor is so significant is because their policy is everything they sell gets lifetime warranty. Turner and ecs have select products that get lifetime warranty, so there's a chance they can change their policy if too many people return brakes. Btw fcp doesn't care if you're the original purchaser or not, warranty follows the product. Idk about ecs or turner, so again that's why fcp's lifetime warranty is so good.

4) 034 is a vw/Audi and bmw specific vendor, their goal isn't to offer brakes for every platform. But if you want to compare, 034's manufacturer offers rotors for: 26 vehicle makes, and each make has multiple models as well, and they offer custom rotor services too. Girodisc offers it for 26 vehicle makes as well, so they're on par. 034's manufacturer also makes BBK's, that's one step further than girodisc. Now you know how capable 034's manufacturer is.



5) the stock blue brakes are hit or miss, some say they can manage it, some say they can't. It depends on braking style, power output, and track layout. But enough users have reported that with pads, lines, good fluid, upgraded rotors, shims, and a brake ducting kit - you can make these blue brakes very track capable. Bluecluesm3 used to track his f80 heavily on the blue brakes and could make them last a session before they started to fade near the end. Blake's m3 with 600whp and lots of aero is on the stock brakes without issue. That was on an extremely high power m3 and he didn't have ducting. So for the vast majority of the community who don't track enough to spend massive money on a bbk, they're going to want to upgrade the stock brakes, and it's possible to make them track capable.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Another 034 set has been FS since May with no buyers.

In regards to the used 034 rotors for sale, they're sold: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2016621

Not sure how that was even relevant to anything, but your talking point on that is moot.

I could easily make an irrelevant claim as well: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2050985

These girodiscs were listed since September and no one even made an offer.

These girodiscs were listed since February last year, and not sold: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1995356



So what were you trying to imply again? Yeah exactly....

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by F87source

In regards to the used 034 rotors for sale, they're sold: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2016621

Not sure how that was even relevant to anything, but your talking point on that is moot.

I could easily make an irrelevant claim as well: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2050985

These girodiscs were listed since September and no one even made an offer.

These girodiscs were listed since February last year, and not sold: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1995356



So what were you trying to imply again? Yeah exactly....

Number of known forum members with 034 rotors this past track season. One set being used, the other set FS since May. You said people used Girodisc because they were first to market yet only two known forum members had 034 rotors this past track season.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by F87source

1) like I said before, not everyone is going to post on the forums, and most of the time if a person is going to go out of their way to make an account and post on the forum it's going to be because they're pissed off something went wrong and they feel like they have wasted their money. If everything is going perfectly there's a huge chance they won't even post. Look at jfritz if he didn't post we wouldn't have ever known he had them. Also Blake's garage is another who has run these rotors on the track.

2) Blake has run his m4 quite hard on the track and posts videos of his track use, and he's pushed hard enough that his brakes are almost black.

3) when I wrote this review I don't believe girodisc was available at turner yet. So only these rotors had life time warranty.

The reason why having fcp euro as a vendor is so significant is because their policy is everything they sell gets lifetime warranty. Turner and ecs have select products that get lifetime warranty, so there's a chance they can change their policy if too many people return brakes. Btw fcp doesn't care if you're the original purchaser or not, warranty follows the product. Idk about ecs or turner, so again that's why fcp's lifetime warranty is so good.

4) 034 is a vw/Audi and bmw specific vendor, their goal isn't to offer brakes for every platform. But if you want to compare, 034's manufacturer offers rotors for: 26 vehicle makes, and each make has multiple models as well, and they offer custom rotor services too. Girodisc offers it for 26 vehicle makes as well, so they're on par. 034's manufacturer also makes BBK's, that's one step further than girodisc. Now you know how capable 034's manufacturer is.



5) the stock blue brakes are hit or miss, some say they can manage it, some say they can't. It depends on braking style, power output, and track layout. But enough users have reported that with pads, lines, good fluid, upgraded rotors, shims, and a brake ducting kit - you can make these blue brakes very track capable. Bluecluesm3 used to track his f80 heavily on the blue brakes and could make them last a session before they started to fade near the end. Blake's m3 with 600whp and lots of aero is on the stock brakes without issue. That was on an extremely high power m3 and he didn't have ducting. So for the vast majority of the community who don't track enough to spend massive money on a bbk, they're going to want to upgrade the stock brakes, and it's possible to make them track capable.

If your a left foot late braker, the blue brakes will not last a 20 min session even at stock power. Domed steel pistons, aftermarket rotors, SS brake lines, srf fluid, etc are bandaids and only increases performance life in terms of single digit minutes, not 10s of minutes. I prefer to have a set of brakes beneath me that will easily survive a 45 min open passing session. I want the same brake feel, bite, modulation lap after lap after lap. Brakes that can’t last 20 min means you’re managing brakes starting halfway thru a 20 min session. No thanks.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Number of known forum members with 034 rotors this past track season. One set being used, the other set FS since May. You said people used Girodisc because they were first to market yet only two known forum members had 034 rotors this past track season.

I said girodisc had more user feedback because it was first out, meaning the forum members on the forum with an F8X car who wanted rotors, and were motivated to post about it will have already purchased the readily available option. Once alternatives came out like the 034 rotors, most of the forum members will have already purchased rotors meaning there will barely be anyone left to write about it. Like I said before, not everyone will post even if they buy it, and the majority of the people that will post and want rotors are likely already customers of brands that came first.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

If your a left foot late braker, the blue brakes will not last a 20 min session even at stock power. Domed steel pistons, aftermarket rotors, SS brake lines, srf fluid, etc are bandaids and only increases performance life in terms of single digit minutes, not 10s of minutes. I prefer to have a set of brakes beneath me that will easily survive a 45 min open passing session. I want the same brake feel, bite, modulation lap after lap after lap. Brakes that can’t last 20 min means you’re managing brakes starting halfway thru a 20 min session. No thanks.

Firstly most sessions are 20-30 minute rotations, so most people are focusing on that. Second I've seen plenty of fast drivers who left foot brake make their blue brakes last these 20 minutes sessions, some people are harder on brakes than others, and some people excessively brake.

Either way like I said, some people will absolutely fade the stock brakes and require a BBK. But that simply isn't justifable for people that don't track enough to require it, nor the people that do time attack and are only on the track for a few laps at a time or auto cross. Not everyone will need a BBK, so you can't project your use case onto everyone.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by F87source

Firstly most sessions are 20-30 minute rotations, so most people are focusing on that. Second I've seen plenty of fast drivers who left foot brake make their blue brakes last these 20 minutes sessions, some people are harder on brakes than others, and some people excessively brake.

Either way like I said, some people will absolutely fade the stock brakes and require a BBK. But that simply isn't justifable for people that don't track enough to require it, nor the people that do time attack and are only on the track for a few laps at a time or auto cross. Not everyone will need a BBK, so you can't project your use case onto everyone.

I do not excessively brake. I brake late and minimize the time I stay on the brakes. I’ve been tracking > 30 years. Out of the people I know with F8x and f87, blue brakes are fading before 20 min. Open track and lapping sessions are at least 30 min, some 45 min, and the blue brakes are worthless by/before 20 min. I guess I prefer a consistent pedal so I’m confident every time I nail the brake pedal. It’s a waste of money if you’re having to manage the brakes after < 20 min on track.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

I do not excessively brake. I brake late and minimize the time I stay on the brakes. I’ve been tracking > 30 years. Out of the people I know with F8x and f87, blue brakes are fading before 20 min. Open track and lapping sessions are at least 30 min, some 45 min, and the blue brakes are worthless by/before 20 min. I guess I prefer a consistent pedal so I’m confident every time I nail the brake pedal. It’s a waste of money if you’re having to manage the brakes after < 20 min on track.

Like I said before braking performance is subjective to your braking style, your track layout, and mods. So you can't say without a doubt that fading will happen. I have heard and experienced both (I tracked on my m235i and stock the brakes were fine, heavily moddded pushing around 500 whp with only pads and fluid it started to struggle near the end of a session), some people have reported with upgrades they can push their car and entire session without fade - especially with brake ducting pushing air into the hat, some people who brake insanely hard can't make it last 10 minutes.


Then depending on what type of driving you do, a BBK will make no sense. For someone who daily's their car and tracks 1-3 times a year a BBK will be way too much of an investment for them. For someone who prefers auto x a BBK won't make sense either. For someone who tracks 10+ times per year, then yeah a BBK will absolutely make sense.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by F87source

Like I said before braking performance is subjective to your braking style, your track layout, and mods. So you can't say without a doubt that fading will happen. I have heard and experienced both (I tracked on my m235i and stock the brakes were fine, heavily moddded pushing around 500 whp with only pads and fluid it started to struggle near the end of a session), some people have reported with upgrades they can push their car and entire session without fade - especially with brake ducting pushing air into the hat, some people who brake insanely hard can't make it last 10 minutes.


Then depending on what type of driving you do, a BBK will make no sense. For someone who daily's their car and tracks 1-3 times a year a BBK will be way too much of an investment for them. For someone who prefers auto x a BBK won't make sense either. For someone who tracks 10+ times per year, then yeah a BBK will absolutely make sense.

Fading happens with stock blue brakes at all the tracks I go to and I’m not the only one with the issue. I’m not aware of a single person that doesn’t have braking issues. Stock pads don’t last very long either (PFC11) so having a 25 mm-thick pad is great. I haven’t said everyone has to buy a brake kit so not forcing my opinion/experience on anyone but I’ll let them know what I think if I’m asked. Aftermarket brake rotors are an absolute improvement over the BMW floating pin design although the F8x rotor design is a huge improvement over the e92 rotor design. However, swapping rotors doesn’t really address the braking issues and only buys you a little more time for a decent cost investment. I didn’t waste any money or time on attempting to upgrade the stock setup but adding RB SS domed pistons and Ti shims, as well as rotor swaps, are worthwhile upgrades over stock.

Each season there’s a large number of new people that upgrade their stock blue brake setup to include aftermarket brake rotors. It appears not many forum users have selected the 034 option even though it’s been out for more than one track season. Your long posts about any product you add seems like it’s your way of justifying your purchase and claiming it’s the best product available on the market. Talk about forcing an opinion on someone. Paragon brake temp strips is a good example. As long as a brake temp strip accurately measures temp, it’s difficult to say one strip is superior to another.

Knowing which brake manufacturers use J hook patterns, I have an idea who the 034 brake rotor manufacturer may be.

[jfritz27]

I love you guys

Given how deep down the rabbit hole this has gone, this probably is not terribly relevant at this point, but out of full disclosure I'll also just add that I'm running the RB rebuild kit with Ti shims and front dust shield delete. Regarding the question of pace, this is totally fair -- I'm not the fastest person, but at my local track (NJMP Lightning), which saw most of the track days this year, it is relatively short but with 2 hard braking zones. I've got some of the quickest laptimes on the F8x that I could find publicly reported at least, and I'm #20 on the Garmin Catalyst leaderboard (with a majority of those faster being Porsche GT cars). Take that for whatever it's worth.

If my 034's ever crack, you guys will be the first to know!

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by jfritz27

I love you guys

Given how deep down the rabbit hole this has gone, this probably is not terribly relevant at this point, but out of full disclosure I'll also just add that I'm running the RB rebuild kit with Ti shims and front dust shield delete. Regarding the question of pace, this is totally fair -- I'm not the fastest person, but at my local track (NJMP Lightning), which saw most of the track days this year, it is relatively short but with 2 hard braking zones. I've got some of the quickest laptimes on the F8x that I could find publicly reported at least, and I'm #20 on the Garmin Catalyst leaderboard (with a majority of those faster being Porsche GT cars). Take that for whatever it's worth.

If my 034's ever crack, you guys will be the first to know!

Things did spiral out of control pretty fast. I’m glad to hear the 034 rotors have held up well for you and have been a nice upgrade over stock. RB rebuild kit with SS domed pistons is a nice upgrade for the blue calipers.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Fading happens with stock blue brakes at all the tracks I go to and I’m not the only one with the issue. I’m not aware of a single person that doesn’t have braking issues. Stock pads don’t last very long either (PFC11) so having a 25 mm-thick pad is great. I haven’t said everyone has to buy a brake kit so not forcing my opinion/experience on anyone but I’ll let them know what I think if I’m asked. Aftermarket brake rotors are an absolute improvement over the BMW floating pin design although the F8x rotor design is a huge improvement over the e92 rotor design. However, swapping rotors doesn’t really address the braking issues and only buys you a little more time for a decent cost investment. I didn’t waste any money or time on attempting to upgrade the stock setup but adding RB SS domed pistons and Ti shims, as well as rotor swaps, are worthwhile upgrades over stock.

Each season there’s a large number of new people that upgrade their stock blue brake setup to include aftermarket brake rotors. It appears not many forum users have selected the 034 option even though it’s been out for more than one track season. Your long posts about any product you add seems like it’s your way of justifying your purchase and claiming it’s the best product available on the market. Talk about forcing an opinion on someone. Paragon brake temp strips is a good example. As long as a brake temp strip accurately measures temp, it’s difficult to say one strip is superior to another.

Knowing which brake manufacturers use J hook patterns, I have an idea who the 034 brake rotor manufacturer may be.

1) Yup Im well aware, fading is absolutely a problem - im not saying it doesn't exist. Im saying you absolutely can solve it - well atleast for some users, and for others there is just no solving it. For instance my buddy ZM2 brakes so hard he destroyed and siezed up the stock blue calipers, and he's even fading his AP racing bbk fron and paragon rear bbk and is now adding brake ducting made by Westersund. So it depends on your braking style.

2) If you are not aware of a single person without braking issues you clearly aren't looking or brushing it off. Canautm3 has been very active on the forum and tracks quite alot, he has reported in the past his F80 blue brakes with pads (iirc pagid rs29's) do not fade for him on track. The same thing on the m2 side of the forum (some with brake issues some without) - but the m2 is ~100-200 lbs lighter than the F80 depending on trim.

3) The BMW stock rotor is already quite good, true aluminium hat, radially floating, but it could still be significantly better with a higher vane count, truly floating design, better metallurgy and a less cracking proned design (holes are always going to crack significantly easier than slots or j hooks). I wouldn't say it's a huge improvement over the E9x rotor, it is almost a direct carry over. BMW first introduced this aluminium hat, and radially floating pin design on the E9x and visually it is almost identical: https://autocouturemotoring.com/prod...tor-right-side

4) In terms of cost, an OE upgrade will be less than half of a BBK, so it's still a decent chunk of change when a BBK is $6000+.

5) Im justifying my opinion why I think it's the best based on valid talking points that I list out clearly. If you disagree go ahead an counter them, and explain why any alternative is better. I don't actively go out and shove it into people's faces, and try to force my opinion down anyone's throats. I give my honest reasoning and justifications and that's that, when people ask for advice I give it. There's a reason why I nearly have a 1:1 post to appreciation count. Don't forget an opinion is just that an opinion, everyone likes different things and I will do my best to justify why I think something is "better" than another. Some times it is absolutely clear cut, some times it goes down to the tiny margins. In the case of the 034 rotors it was a relative unknown product, and I wanted to bring attention to what is an absolutely stellar product and with all factors considered it is imo the best rotor choice for our platform, especially since you can replace it for free through FCP and then when you resell it or buy it used, the warranty will follow it. You can't really say that about many other brands.

6) With the paragon brake temp strips you have to factor in temp reading range, price, availablity etc. I said it was better because price wise, availblity wise, and overall cost made it a better choice. I didn't say it was a better performing strip.


7) I don't think the manufacturer for 034 makes any j-hook rotors, but I didn't scrub through the entire site.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by jfritz27

I love you guys

Given how deep down the rabbit hole this has gone, this probably is not terribly relevant at this point, but out of full disclosure I'll also just add that I'm running the RB rebuild kit with Ti shims and front dust shield delete. Regarding the question of pace, this is totally fair -- I'm not the fastest person, but at my local track (NJMP Lightning), which saw most of the track days this year, it is relatively short but with 2 hard braking zones. I've got some of the quickest laptimes on the F8x that I could find publicly reported at least, and I'm #20 on the Garmin Catalyst leaderboard (with a majority of those faster being Porsche GT cars). Take that for whatever it's worth.

If my 034's ever crack, you guys will be the first to know!

Thanks for your feedback! How are the RB pistons? I saw they were an option but haven't heard too much about them.

[F87source]

M3SQRD

Ok I got a reply from 034 about my inquiry into the audi's rotor issues, and here is their reply:

Originally Posted by 034Motorsport

"All of our products are designed, engineered and manufactured by 034Motorsport using a network of world wide suppliers in Asia, Europe and the US. We choose the best suppliers for the job, we stand behind the products and we put our reputation on the line with every product we ship."

And in regards to the single Audizine rotor failure, who was a local customer and absolute track noobie:

"
XXX, in talking with our service team, they spoke to you and informed you that you are significantly overdriving your car on the setup you're using, introducing far more heat at a rapid rate of time than you should. This is evident in both the rotor, and in your tire sidewall wear and tire chunking. This was walked through with you at our service department. While you feel that your driving is an "eager grandpa" the wear and tear on your car show much more aggressive driving than you may think.

The factory 8 piston calipers on this car are known for significant heat dissipation issues, and the "Factory ducting" is nearly useless to help with this. You mention that you notice your stock fluid is not boiling, but boiling generally has to do with sustained braking temps vs sporadic and overly aggressive rapid braking maneuvers. Rapid thermal expansion without allowing the system to properly get up to temp and cool down can accelerate wear and cause unnecessary fatigue.

We have tested these internally for years on extremely aggressive pad compounds with actively competing racing drivers and have not had a single issue, and we will continue to stand by their performance capabilities when properly used.

Regardless, out of an abundance of caution, we have already discussed with you that we are supporting you here and replacing the rotor rings free of charge, as well as installing them for free as a courtesy to you. We will of course do a technical dive on these rotors to ensure that there are not any inherent flaws in the design or manufacturing process, but at this time, they appear to have been overworked."

I attached a photo of his wheels for instance. This exact wear is consistent with heavy cars being significantly over-driven. These RS3's also have XDS, which pulses the brakes in all four corners to act like torque vectoring. He also has ESC in sport, not fully off.

Let's summarize:

1) They likely don't want me to talk about their suppliers and I understand that so I will not disclose anything. But they stand behind their products and you can absolutely see that with them replacing the audi owners rotors and included free installation.

2) So it sounds like the audi driver was abusing his car, i.e. not warming up the brakes before going absolutely crazy hard on the brakes - not great on a metallic compound, and then not letting it cool down after hot lapping.

3) It looks like he also left traction control on, which means the brakes were pulsed to vector torque - again unnecessary strain on the brakes. This is the same thing with our F8x where if we leave DSC on the rear brakes are pulsed to stabilize the car, and it was known for melting rear brakes on the m2.

4) The audi caliper has heat retention issues meaning more heat trapped in the stock braking system.

5) The audi driver was a "noobie", so that explains the abuse and not warming up or cooling down the brakes.


I think that pretty much explains why the rotors cracked on his car and why it was the only case we have ever heard of online. It also explains why we don't see issues on our f8x cars thus far.



I didn't attach the photo because it doesn't belong to me, and I don't know if this was taken by 034 (and I don't know if I was supposed to share it or not) or if it was from the audi guy and well I don't want to post something not meant for outside eyes. But there is a pretty large chunk missing that spans 2 - 3 tread blocks on the tire so yeah not really a good look.

[M3SQRD]

Brake rotors should be capable of withstanding cold (abrasive) braking and ABS (similar affect to a jack hammer) as well as DSC/MDM. The Audi rotor didn’t appear to show any signs of abrasive braking. BMW stock rotors can withstand hard cold braking, ABS and DSC/MDM without premature cracking. DSC/MDM results in increased brake pad wear. Thermal shock is supposed to be minimized by having a full floating hat. Tire chunking typically happens to hot tires with full height tread blocks. Is there actual measured temperatures showing Audi calipers and pads retain more heat or is this a theory someone has suggested? I’m done after this post. Enjoy your 034 rotors that are superior to all other brake rotors.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Brake rotors should be capable of withstanding cold (abrasive) braking and ABS (similar affect to a jack hammer) as well as DSC/MDM. The Audi rotor didn’t appear to show any signs of abrasive braking. BMW stock rotors can withstand hard cold braking, ABS and DSC/MDM without premature cracking. DSC/MDM results in increased brake pad wear. Thermal shock is supposed to be minimized by having a full floating hat. Tire chunking typically happens to hot tires with full height tread blocks. Is there actual measured temperatures showing Audi calipers and pads retain more heat or is this a theory someone has suggested? I’m done after this post. Enjoy your 034 rotors that are superior to all other brake rotors.

1) Where did you even get the idea that the 034 rotors cannot handle cold braking or ABS use? Cold metallic race pads are known to be harsh on rotors, so that could exacerbate wear if you street drive on them.

And beating on a cold rotor without warming them up will just expedite wear and tear, the same goes for not letting them cool down. These are typically behaviors that cause rotors to crack.


Traction control just heats up the rotors and expediates wear and tear, but that doesn't mean the rotors can't handle it.

2) Ok so what the stock bmw rotors can handle hard cold braking, that's irrelevant. We are talking about abuse here, start cold beat on the rotor, and park it hot with no cool down laps, and we are talking about doing this every session for every track day. You are making some scenario up in your head that you can brake hard on a cold stock rotor one time and it'll be A ok. This is not the same thing as the abuse I just described. How about we beat on a stock rotor and abuse it and park with it hot after a heavy track session and see what happens.


3) A fully floating rotor isn't going to be able to save it from abuse.


4) Why don't you go and look up the audi caliper and their temperature retention issues instead of asking me? I told you I don't know anything about Audi, and this is what 034 has told me. It's funny how you down play this notion that the calipers retain heat without having data as proof, but you are totally ok with your speculations that the rotors cracked because the shape of the mounting tabs based on your visual observations with zero data whatsoever aside from your engineering background... It's almost like you're here to hate on a product because it comes from a lesser known company, and you immediately bash their engineering processes without know anything about the background of this company or who made it.



You can't even explain why you think these rotors shouldn't be the best option overall, you just cling onto this one case of premature cracking that is due to abuse to discredit the rotors. Well what about this: https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...pads-both.html

This porsche user experienced premature cracking with his girodiscs after a similar amount of sessions as the audi user, and he's running similar pfc pads. Does this mean they're defective? What about the mounting points? Or maybe their engineering is crap. Yeah exactly, saying this without seeing consistent failures across the board and then beggining to speculate about their production methodology and bringing up more nonsense without proof makes me sound like a crazy hater. It's funny because you claim to be an aerospace engineer with 40 years of experience, and yet you don't seem to understand that anomolies, defects, and user error can happen and that just because you see one failure doesn't mean the entire product is bad - especially when it literally is just one failure with other use cases showing the product is fine. But yet you cling on to that one fail case and begin falling into the whataboutism trap trying to explain why the rotors failed on the audi and not on the bmw's, from mounting points (which was more a photo angle rather than an actual difference in the hat), to differing metallurgy, to mounting point shape being a semi-circle. This doesn't even account the OE for 034 and the massive number of cars running their rotors without issue, and I really wish I could disclose them to you. But that would literally debunk everything you have said and discredit all of your talking points, and show how off you are with everything you have said thus far.


You don't even back up a single thing you say, for instance you said: "the F8x rotor design is a huge improvement over the e92 rotor design" where's your proof on that? It's literally the same design just 20 mm larger on the F8x. You said you've never seen any case where the blue brakes don't fade - that's an insanely bold statement, and might be more a case of confirmational bias. Then you claimed that I was paid by 034 to make this review with again zero proof or evidence (I have been offered comission and affiliate deals before by many sponsors, but I turned them down every single time in favor of being unaffiliated and as unbiased as possible). Then you claim that I was defending these rotors to justify my purchase which is complete 180 degree spin from your previous claim. You are literally grasping at straws.

You can't even explain why you think there are better alternatives except for other brands having more users.


No worries man, I'll absolutely be enjoying my rotors that I have offered my own reasoning to explain why I think they are the best overall pick for bolt in factory replacements. Btw I never said they were the best, I said they were the best overall based on my reasoning that I listed above, there's a pretty critical difference there because it is rare for a rotor to be the best at everything so instead I justified this pick to be the best balance of attributes.

[jfritz27]

Originally Posted by F87source

Thanks for your feedback! How are the RB pistons? I saw they were an option but haven't heard too much about them.

As in many situations, the change in pistons was not made in isolation, so it's hard to comment about them individually, but I haven't had cause to complain so far. For me with the totality of my current setup at the tracks I've run (session max around 25 min I'd say), brake fade has been minimal at worst. Looking forward to seeing what the addition of the cheap BW deflectors do next season.

[M3SQRD]

Reading 034’s response to the Audi rotor issues implied/blamed aggressive cold braking and/or excessive heat transfer as abuse which lead to the large radial crack on the rotor ID. You even stated the Audi owner wasn’t properly warming the brakes. Hence, 034 rotors can’t withstand hard braking when cold. Rest of 034’s (or their secret rotor manufacturer’s) response was finding/claiming the issues were created by the owner. Ablative and abrasive braking show up differently on rotors and I see no signs of abrasive braking on the rotors. Enjoy your 034 rotors.

[034Motorsport]

Originally Posted by F87source

M3SQRD
2) So it sounds like the audi driver was abusing his car, i.e. not warming up the brakes before going absolutely crazy hard on the brakes - not great on a metallic compound, and then not letting it cool down after hot lapping.

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Reading 034’s response to the Audi rotor issues implied/blamed aggressive cold braking and/or excessive heat transfer as abuse which lead to the large radial crack on the rotor ID. You even stated the Audi owner wasn’t properly warming the brakes. Hence, 034 rotors can’t withstand hard braking when cold. Rest of 034’s (or their secret rotor manufacturer’s) response was finding/claiming the issues were created by the owner. Ablative and abrasive braking show up differently on rotors and I see no signs of abrasive braking on the rotors. Enjoy your 034 rotors.

I'll start off here by apologizing for the confusion.

The owner was very obviously overdriving the car while already warm. I'll attach the photo of the destroyed tires. Car is a stock power RS3.

The RS3 is a terrible track car from the factory with its calipers that hate to shed heat. At ~3,600 lbs in a FWD-biased car, the front end is already overtaxed with weight over the front end, steering, and braking.



That said, we have extensively tracked our own TTRS (500WHP) (with the same RS3 factory caliper) and our RS3(500WHP), which utilizes a Brembo GTS caliper and the stock-sized, 034 rotor without issue. The TTRS rotors lasted well over 2+ years with sustained track abuse with no issue - we only replaced them as we sold the car to a new owner - who has continued to track the car since without replacing the rings.

To further back up the abuse these rotors are willing to take - we gave a set to one of our Audi R8 customers who race their car in the USTCC series. They got two full seasons of W2W racing from a set.

& for the heck of it, here is what the rotors looked like after the Sonoma race linked above:




I hope this clears things up.

-Sean@034

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Reading 034’s response to the Audi rotor issues implied/blamed aggressive cold braking and/or excessive heat transfer as abuse which lead to the large radial crack on the rotor ID. You even stated the Audi owner wasn’t properly warming the brakes. Hence, 034 rotors can’t withstand hard braking when cold. Rest of 034’s (or their secret rotor manufacturer’s) response was finding/claiming the issues were created by the owner. Ablative and abrasive braking show up differently on rotors and I see no signs of abrasive braking on the rotors. Enjoy your 034 rotors.

So this reply just shows you don't read responses carefully (and still don't) before making unbacked responses.

1. Not warming up was part of the issue, not cooling down was the other.

2. It's almost like you have selective tunnel vision trying to find ways to justify your claims. You literally zoned in one one part of 034's response and zoned out every other part.

3. It's also funny how you're able to make such claims and have never seen the car in real life, and we're not there to inspect it. But then again most of your claims you've made have been off. You've claimed the f80 rotors are much improved over the e90 m3 brake rotors in terms of design and yet the design is nearly identical the f80 is just larger in diameter. This is kind of shocking that you'd claim this with zero backing as to why it's better, and you supposedly own both an f80 and e90 and have worked on both braking systems. So if you're unable to identify and observe the similarities in real life, then imaging your observational skills over the Internet looking at photos.... And that's being exposed when you blamed the mounting points being semi-circles and differently spaced.



4. You claim you see no abrasive or ablative braking, you do realize metallic race pads are only abrasive when cold right? Upon hard braking the brake pad reaches operating temps in seconds and now can be even more rotor friendly than semi metallic or organic pads. The abrasiveness would only be in at for a few seconds at most and there is a huge chance it won't leave deep lasting impressions into the rotor. It's going to add unneeded stress but it may not show, especially if it's wearing evenly across the face of the rotor. Even despite this you can see uneven wear on the Audi owners rotor right in the middle but you seem not to care nor notice. There's a reason why people running race pads don't have weird wear patterns on their rotors, beecause albeit they're abrasive it's not going to etch/wear multiple mm into the rotor.


5. You claim to be an aerospace structural engineer with 40 years of experience, yet without actual scientific evidence, statistical evidence of multiple repeated failures, or even seeing the faield item in real life you're able to claim a critical design issue. Yeah that's pretty impressive....

As a scientist myself I've learned not to imply correlation or causation without performing statistical analysis on my experimental result. Especially on real life tests because there are so many confounding variables, and the only time I would ever imply causation or correlation is when I see so many failures or repeated cases occur it becomes obvious, case and point the bmw change pipe being an actual design flaw. I'm not sure how you're even able to determine there is correlation and causation here with only 1 failure case, and it's shocking youre trying to do so with such a back ground in engineering, I would have expected you out of all people to understand failure statistics and random chance.




All of this combined with how you were incorrectly jumping all over the place blaming rotor mounting points spacing, hat design and gaps between the rotor, different metallurgical composition of the rotor, poor engineering practices, only looking at one part of 034's response and some how from 2 photos being able to deduce more information that the team that has access to the car and the owners testimony just trying to justify your reasoning that these rotors are defective based on 1 single use case just proves you have no idea what you're talking about. You're not interested in reality, you're viewing the information with confirmational bias to back your view point. This explains your post ton post appreciation ratio.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by F87source

So this reply just shows you don't read responses carefully (and still don't) before making unbacked responses.

1. Not warming up was part of the issue, not cooling down was the other.

2. It's almost like you have selective tunnel vision trying to find ways to justify your claims. You literally zoned in one one part of 034's response and zoned out every other part.

3. It's also funny how you're able to make such claims and have never seen the car in real life, and we're not there to inspect it. But then again most of your claims you've made have been off. You've claimed the f80 rotors are much improved over the e90 m3 brake rotors in terms of design and yet the design is nearly identical the f80 is just larger in diameter. This is kind of shocking that you'd claim this with zero backing as to why it's better, and you supposedly own both an f80 and e90 and have worked on both braking systems. So if you're unable to identify and observe the similarities in real life, then imaging your observational skills over the Internet looking at photos.... And that's being exposed when you blamed the mounting points being semi-circles and differently spaced.



4. You claim you see no abrasive or ablative braking, you do realize metallic race pads are only abrasive when cold right? Upon hard braking the brake pad reaches operating temps in seconds and now can be even more rotor friendly than semi metallic or organic pads. The abrasiveness would only be in at for a few seconds at most and there is a huge chance it won't leave deep lasting impressions into the rotor. It's going to add unneeded stress but it may not show, especially if it's wearing evenly across the face of the rotor. Even despite this you can see uneven wear on the Audi owners rotor right in the middle but you seem not to care nor notice. There's a reason why people running race pads don't have weird wear patterns on their rotors, beecause albeit they're abrasive it's not going to etch/wear multiple mm into the rotor.


5. You claim to be an aerospace structural engineer with 40 years of experience, yet without actual scientific evidence, statistical evidence of multiple repeated failures, or even seeing the faield item in real life you're able to claim a critical design issue. Yeah that's pretty impressive....




All of this combined with how you were incorrectly jumping all over the place blaming rotor mounting points spacing, hat design and gaps between the rotor, different metallurgical composition of the rotor, poor engineering practices, only looking at one part of 034's response and some how from 2 photos being able to deduce more information that the team that has access to the car and the owners testimony just trying to justify your reasoning that these rotors are defective based on 1 single use case just proves you have no idea what you're talking about. You're not interested in reality, you're viewing the information with confirmational bias to back your view point. This explains your post ton post appreciation ratio.

Yep, you’ve got me figured out. Your net worth in life is based on the reps you get on a forum. Sad. I have e92 M3s and a f82 M4. The f8x rotors are superior to the e9x rotors and if you don’t see the difference immediately then you shouldn’t be creating long posts discussing rotor design.