M4 clutch rod failure leads to accident

[EOS]

Hi all,

My M4 is currently sitting there being inspected, and the only responsive individual there is _____, yet I have not received a response from him to my most recent correspondence (emails and phone calls) over the past 30 hours or so. My case is as follows (from my Google review of his service department):

My situation: I have a brand new M4 with 7000 miles on it. On August 26, the vehicle malfunctioned, the clutch fully went out (was hanging like a loose tooth), and the car spontaneously accelerated in reverse UP an incline with the parking break FULLY ENGAGED and the brake pedal FULLY DEPRESSED. It caused damage to two other vehicles and injury to me in the process.

______, particularly _______________-has treated me like absolute garbage throughout the ordeal. I believe ______ secretly recorded a conversation with me in which he and a shop foreman played good cop/bad cop (without telling me I was being recorded) and tried to get me to admit that the car did not spontaneously accelerate and that I somehow did something to cause a clutch rod to fall out (a clear defect). Prior to the conversation, _____ made sure the door was shut and utilized a kickstand from his phone case to position the phone tilted up and moved it close to where I was sitting in front of his desk--evidently concerned about the positioning of the device--which leads me to believe he was recording the conversation. The foreman also said he put the clutch rod back in and the car started fine (he did this without my consent), "just to see if it would work." He told me there was no transmission fluid leaking (this is a baldface lie--the tow truck driver who towed it out of my parking garage even commented on the transmission fluid leaking after the catastrophic failure of the clutch caused by the defect). The foreman further stated that I must have exerted some kind of upward pressure on the clutch pedal at some point, which could have somehow pulled the rod out, as this was the "only way I could have had the rod pulled out." I then stated "...or a defect," and _____ sighed and tilted his head backward in frustration, as if he had been trying to frame me. He then began pacing back and forth nervously in the room throughout the rest of the conversation.

Then I get a loaner car for only 4 weeks (my car is still not fixed) and am told by _____that my car is "finished" and that the rest of the issue is BMW North America's problem. So, unless I brought it back IMMEDIATELY, I would have been charged $150 per day.

When I tried to get ahold of one of the holy trinity ( the top managers) to discuss whether I could have until Thursday to bring the car back, the front desk manager stated ____ said he would call me. I then emailed him telling him I was looking forward to his call. He immediately called me and said he had no idea what I was talking about as he had "removed himself from the matter."



I am exceedingly grateful for any help the community can offer. Principally, I want to get the photos and witness statements to the inspectors/investigators from BMW NA and evidently a third party before they render the decision. I have submitted these to ____, case manager in the NJ office, who is very non-responsive. I do not trust he supplied these materials to them. I also sent them to ____ on Saturday--he stated he was "in my corner" and would send the materials along, but I have heard nothing from him since I requested an update yesterday morning, followed up on same today, and called his landline and his dealership's main line to leave a message to call me.

Thanks,

Michael

[Kisenwether]

This just feels very odd which is why they are probably treating you the way they currently are.

The 4 systems you talked about are
-Clutch
-Brakes
-Accelerator
-E-Brake

I honestly feel if the clutch was to engage, either the parking brake or brake alone would stop the car. If not you are saying all of these systems failed even though they are mostly mechanical systems that still operate without power. (brakes without the brake booster still work but have a harder pedal)

If the car accelerated, you are also saying the accelerator wasn't pressed? Don't see a car revving up by itself, with the clutch dropping, up a incline

Wish you the best but the story is just hard to believe.

[SakhirM4]

Your avatar says that you have a 2018 M2.

[minn19]

I have no idea what to make of your story, but it sounds very odd on a lot of different levels.

[Zayzel]

dude, I am so confused.

[bmrwrld]

Gremlins! some times they get you, little bastards.

[Antartic]

Something doesn't sound right- the brakes are strong enough to overcome any acceleration. And multiple, unrelated failures seem very unlikely. I cannot make any sense of this thing.

Can you post a picture of the car, or the write-up the dealer did when you took it in?

[x.shell]

Originally Posted by Kisenwether

This just feels very odd which is why they are probably treating you the way they currently are.

The 4 systems you talked about are
-Clutch
-Brakes
-Accelerator
-E-Brake

I honestly feel if the clutch was to engage, either the parking brake or brake alone would stop the car. If not you are saying all of these systems failed even though they are mostly mechanical systems that still operate without power. (brakes without the brake booster still work but have a harder pedal)

If the car accelerated, you are also saying the accelerator wasn't pressed? Don't see a car revving up by itself, with the clutch dropping, up a incline

Wish you the best but the story is just hard to believe.

This is my line of thinking as well. I usually don't comment on these kind of threads since more data always seems to come out in the end. But the scenario that OP described seems out of this world... impossible even.

A physical mechanical failure of the clutch, brakes, and parking brake all at the exact same time? Not to mention, the software deciding to give gas to the car with no physical input at the exact same time. The accelerator is drive by wire, so sure, it is possible... but all 4 things to happen at the same time? And also, the gear had to physically be put into reverse and left there for the the transmission to hook up and keep accelerating. Unless the OP is saying that the car reversed without being in gear? Which would add another mechanical impossibility to the story.

The statement that the brakes didn't work and the parking brake didn't work seems so odd to me. If I was in a situation like this, I'd try the brake first then immediately pull the shifter into neutral; it'd be instinctual. The idea of pulling on the parking brake would definitely come after the brakes and taking it out of gear.

I'm not trying to be a dick OP, and I'm glad you're okay enough to post this story now. But I'll be honest with you, without proof, I don't think many people on this forum are gonna believe that the chain of events happened exactly like how you described it. It's just improbable.

[Fast4d]

what the OP wrote does not compute.

[EOS]

Hi all, thank you for the replies.

I have been able to get very little information from ______. What I do know is that the shop foreman told me that a rod that a "clutch rod" came out--not sure which one in the image. As for my avatar, the 2018 M2 is incorrect. I created this when I was looking at M2s.

Anyway, what occurred is that the clutch rod evidently came out while I was in my parking garage, with the car in reverse (parked), and the e brake engaged. After this happened, the car spontaneously engaged in gear and the engine revved as if I had been giving it throttle (I was not touching the gas pedal). The car then accelerated backward into a car parked opposite my car (which was 15 feet or so up an incline). The brake pedal was depressed as this acceleration was occurring, but it did not stop the vehicle in time (this was 15 feet or so and the throttle was revving significantly).

The car ended up dying when it hit the jeep that was parked opposite me, and I could not start it, nor could I get it out of reverse (the clutch pedal had zero tension in it). This obviously all could have been solved if the clutch pedal could have been depressed, rendering the fact that the car was in reverse meaningless. It had no tension in it.

When the guy came to tow it, he found a way to get it out of reverse and into Neutral after several minutes and trying different techniques, but the clutch still had no tension in it. It appeared there was transmission fluid leaking on the ground as well, as we both noticed a small amount of fluid coming from the bottom of the car as it was being towed out of the garage.

I hope this clarifies things. It is very challenging dealing with ____ out of the NJ office, as he is exceedingly unresponsive. I thought someone on here might be able to help. As it stands, the investigation is still ongoing, and evidently a third party has become involved to investigate further--given the severity of the situation.

I've never been in a situation like this before, and I am genuinely concerned for the safety of myself and others if I have to end up paying my insurance's negligible deductible and getting things taken care of this way. That is why I am posting on here. The insurance isn't a big deal at all to me; the health and safety of myself and others is.

Thanks

Michael

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by EOS

Hi all, thank you for the replies.

I have been able to get very little information from Advantage. What I do know is that the shop foreman told me that a rod that a "clutch rod" came out--not sure which one in the image. As for my avatar, the 2018 M2 is incorrect. I created this when I was looking at M2s.

Anyway, what occurred is that the clutch rod evidently came out while I was in my parking garage, with the car in reverse (parked), and the e brake engaged. After this happened, the car spontaneously engaged in gear and the engine revved as if I had been giving it throttle (I was not touching the gas pedal). The car then accelerated backward into a car parked opposite my car (which was 15 feet or so up an incline). The brake pedal was depressed as this acceleration was occurring, but it did not stop the vehicle in time (this was 15 feet or so and the throttle was revving significantly).

The car ended up dying when it hit the jeep that was parked opposite me, and I could not start it, nor could I get it out of reverse (the clutch pedal had zero tension in it). This obviously all could have been solved if the clutch pedal could have been depressed, rendering the fact that the car was in reverse meaningless. It had no tension in it.

When the guy came to tow it, he found a way to get it out of reverse and into Neutral after several minutes and trying different techniques, but the clutch still had no tension in it. It appeared there was transmission fluid leaking on the ground as well, as we both noticed a small amount of fluid coming from the bottom of the car as it was being towed out of the garage.

I hope this clarifies things. It is very challenging dealing with Roshad Petteway out of the NJ office, as he is exceedingly unresponsive. I thought someone on here might be able to help. As it stands, the investigation is still ongoing, and evidently a third party has become involved to investigate further--given the severity of the situation.

I've never been in a situation like this before, and I am genuinely concerned for the safety of myself and others if I have to end up paying my insurance's negligible deductible and getting things taken care of this way. That is why I am posting on here. The insurance isn't a big deal at all to me; the health and safety of myself and others is.

Thanks

Michael

Your story still makes no sense at all and seems to be an absolutely impossible scenario.

[EOS]

I appreciate what you are saying, and thank you for replying.

I just posted clarifications.

The issue is that it accelerated so quickly (without my foot on the gas pedal, truly) in reverse, and I was in my parking garage (so there were only about 15 feet between where I was parked and where the guy opposite me was parked), and all of a sudden I slammed into his Jeep in reverse. Then the car died, and I was still unable to depress the clutch pedal (no tension in it) and I could not get the gearshift out of reverse. Due to the acceleration in reverse, the brakes were not able to stop the car in time.

I am truly in the dark about all of this. I am not sure what incentive I would have to create this story. If it was a run-of-the-mill "I reversed my car into a pole" situation, I would just pay the deductible and get on with it--it's not that much money. This seems to me to be a clear mechanical failure, and I am very concerned about the integrity of the vehicle (particularly because I live and drive frequently in downtown Houston, where pedestrians are exceedingly common).

If anyone has any information for me on how best to address things with BMW going forward, I would be very grateful to hear it.

Again, thank you for taking time out of your day to post on this thread. It means a lot to me.

Michael

[sacherel]

Get a lawyer. Take your car back from advantage. Create a bmw case, email your list of events to bmw. Ask bmw to provide a new dealer for your car.

Call your insurance company and tell them you don't have the car, this removes your liability in case advantage does
anything. Stop posting names on this thread, I'm sure advantage will read it and it won't help you.

[EOS]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

Your story still makes no sense at all and seems to be an absolutely impossible scenario.

Please help me understand what kind of incentive I would have to fabricate such a bizarre story.

Mostly I am concerned with the process of BMW's investigation. According to the GM of ______, the current status of the investigation is that this was somehow a user error. I am interested in learning how the failure of a clutch rod and subsequent spontaneous acceleration (an external observer who I did not know before the event submitted a witness statement detailing how loud the revs were, and that it clearly accelerated in reverse) is consistent with a determination that there was no mechanical issue with the car.

Anyone who can assist me in this regard with connections at BMW NA or otherwise, I would really appreciate a DM.

Thank you all again.

Michael

[DDS2015]

I'm pretty sure that the clutch uses brake fluid for its mechanism of action.

If you had a simultaneous loss of clutch and brakes (not including emergency brake), it's could've been a brake fluid issue. Any damaged brake lines? Could also explain the fluid.

If it is a brake line, then it's an insurance claim.

[mardibob]

No comment on OP story, but I bought my M from advantage BMW midtown and after my experience with them I'd never do business with them nor recommend them to anyone especially when you have many other options in the Houston area itself(hint I'm not from Houston area). No issues ordering or getting the car but it took me 6 months to get my license plates and I rate their customer service a big fat zero star.

[EOS]

Very good to know this. Why is it the case that, if it is a brake line issue, insurance is the only route?

[EOS]

With respect to the first point, I am aware of this. Yet, I was unable to pop it into neutral with the engine off, no matter the level of force I applied.

Second, I am still not sure what "rod" (as the foreman described it) failed, but it was certainly not a functioning clutch after this occurred (impossible to get it out of reverse and/or depress the clutch).

Third, I am aware of no problem with starting the car in gear with the clutch fully depressed. Relatedly, parking a manual car in gear is the prudent thing to do.

Fourth, there was no sabotage--this was some kind of defect.

Thank you for the reply.

[EOS]

Originally Posted by Railgun

Ok. So I think I know what happened here based on what was described.

Firstly, if the engine is not running, unless something really bound up, you don't need to depress the clutch to get the thing in/out of gear. So after the crash, if should have simply been a matter of popping it out of gear.

Secondly...you left it in gear while parked. I'm willing to bet it accelerated quickly as you describe as you started it IN gear, after the clutch had actually failed. Because of the cold start, that was the quick acceleration, and because reverse is a stupidly short gear...you get lots of torque multiplication and yadda yadda.

NEVER START THE CAR IN GEAR!

As for the retaining pins falling out, plungers falling out and whatnot...either someone sabotaged your car, or you're not describing the issue correctly. But I'd wager this was the case. A car...especially a manual transmission doesn't spontaneously go into gear. If the clutch master failed, you will not have any pressure to release the clutch, and if the motor is running, you'll grind the shit out of your gears before it things about engaging, so unless you heard the trans lunching itself, there's no way this happened other than the situation I've described.

Also, I did hear a grinding sound prior to the immediate reversal, a crunchy type of noise, though everything happened very quickly. Maybe this was the grinding gears. Again, it is like pulling teeth to get any information on the mechanical status or the status of the investigation at present.

[GitToDeChoppah]

So this car will provide some gas automatically when you let off the clutch. You can easily move forward from a stop without touching the gas or “riding the clutch”. Maybe the clutch broke somehow, which engaged the transmission and the car tried to keep from stalling by autonomously giving some gas. But that wouldn’t explain a rapid acceleration or the brakes not working. I don’t know

[aerostar]

Sounds more like OP thought he was holding the brakes but was hitting the gas.

Even if the car was accelerating in reverse the brakes would stop it. There's way more torque in the brakes than in the motor, especially at low RPMs in 1st gear.

Another question is why you are parking it with reverse engaged. And why are you starting the car with it still in reverse without moving it to neutral first?

[EOS]

Originally Posted by aerostar

Sounds more like OP thought he was holding the brakes but was hitting the gas.

Even if the car was accelerating in reverse the brakes would stop it. There's way more torque in the brakes than in the motor, especially at low RPMs in 1st gear.

Another question is why you are parking it with reverse engaged. And why are you starting the car with it still in reverse without moving it to neutral first?

I assure you it was the brake pedal, and the gas was never touched throughout this whole affair. Also I started it in reverse with the clutch fully depressed--something that has never caused an issue on the 3+ standards I've had throughout the years.